Political Roundtable Part XIX

[Pointgod]

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The China-Russia strategic partnership:

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China's playing 4D Chess.

[gtn130]

Trump is playing checkers Candy Land

[FAH1223]

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Erdogan, Rouhani and Putin agree on one thing, US troops out of Syria and no partition.

[DCZards]

Trump is playing checkers Candy Land

Yup...this is what happens when you put a childish idiot in the WH. Our traditional allies don't trust us and our adversaries are f***ing with us.

[stilldropin20]

remember when Republicans were stalwart deficit hawks lol

Yep, there were a few at the federal level - guess we can stick a fork in that one. There used to be Ds that cared about sustainable government - they seem to be gone as well.

Still a few at the state level on both sides - hope they move to the federal level at some point.

i beleive there are "stalwart" budget hawks on both sides. The problem is not the politicians.

the problem is the american people. That problem that exist within the american people is why i post here and on twitter.

1. the american people need to care less about a public pension plans for local police, fire, and teachers. They've already been out earned the private sector in chicago by a country mile. $3-4 Million (yes million) in pension per person if that ind lives to be 80 years old!!?? 3-4 effing million!?? IN a effing pension??? And we give them My contractors and labors guys risk there lives every day on the job site. Definitely their health. dust, dangerous conditions etc. Teaching and being a fire fighter is a cake walk compared to being a demolition team and rough carpenter or pitched roof, roofer, or concrete worker. Their knees, back, and hands are often shot after 45-50 years old. unless they go union or work for Walsh the entire time, they dont get anything but a 401K.teacher, police, and fire get a 401K plus pension. Its straight up absurd. Hire effing scabs. Make parent home school! Kids dont learn jack shxt in chicago public school anyway due to all the behavior issues in the student body. Seriously though. its a scam scam scam. Unions made teachers get accredited. which is stupid. a good high school graduate can teach children k-5. and you could start the pay $19,500 per year...maxing them out at 50K in 6 years if they are good. 3-4% raises. mandatory retirement after year 20 so as not to escalate salaries too much. 60% of your last year salary as a pension. no 401K match. Save your own damn money and live within your damn means!!!!! College kids or kids with associate degrees can teach 6-12. And you can pay them a tad more. start them at 26K. max them at 65K. Fire should be paid the same as teachers. its a cake walk job. one of the easiest in the entire world.

Police should be highest paid among this group. Especially in cities. strictly use prior military only for police. start them at 40K max them at 80K mandatory retirement at 20 years OJT to keep salaries low. 60% pensions. No 401K. No lifetime medical. pay your own damn medical insurance.

The entire ordeal just makes no sense. This is the biggest issue major cites are facing and why they are going bankrupt/getting bailed out by federal government and why cities are borrowing excessively cause local taxes to rise. the public sector can not actually afford to put these public employees on both golden parachute lifetime pensions in addition to paying them so well. Not without steep local real estate taxes to cover those costs. So why do the american people care about this? Why do the american people continue to get bullied by teacher unions? And give these public employees these golden parachute and massive pay raises?

because the unions organize well. they demonstrate well. they get th emedia in on it. and make local politicians look bad. Our local politicians dont have the back bone to stand up to them. call their bluff. they just want the problem to go away so they dont take too much of a political hit and lose their next election. the opposition candidate will surely bring this up. negative add campaign attack. "he fought the teachers!!!" let the teachers go on strike!" "Our children didn't go to school for months!!"

And to me, the problem is not the politicians. the problem is us. The people. The voters. We hold it against our politicians who fight for sustainable pay for teachers as well as reasonable local real estate tax rates. thats the politicians JOB for christ sakes!!! And we dont let them do it. we rob them of their ability to negotiate. We allow their unions to gangster the public into overpaying those public employees both in real time and pensions. This is the most easily correctable travesty in politics. It occurs every day both locally and federally.

Art some point we need amendments to both our state and federal constitutions laws and by laws making a balance budget mandatory. And if the residents want a new school or to pay out pensions to their local employees then those dollars must be "paid" in that fiscal year. And raise taxes immediately to pay out those budgets.

We simply can not allow our local and federal government to borrow. We need to make it illegal for our state and local governments to borrow. Oh, you want to spend 700 billion on the military and infrastructure? Fine. But a better way to do it would be to make congress collect that money in the previous year before they appropriate it to spend.

1. Basically, We need an amendment that forces the Government to pre-collect via taxes for any spending bill.
2. which of course will cause massive increases in taxes.
3. which will cause public out rage.
4. which will make the public think twice about how much they really want to spend on military and infrastructure and border walls.
5. Which will make more and more of the entire electorate "stalwart budget hawks."
6. End game being that our politicians will be able to govern better. Say NO!! to teachers unions. and balance their budgets.

[Pointgod]

Trump is playing checkers Candy Land

Hungry hungry hippos

[stilldropin20]

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The China-Russia strategic partnership:

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China's playing 4D Chess.

you're a fool if you believe any of that. we consume most of their exports. they cant afford a trade war with us. They also own a lot of out debt. which is in US Dollars. not Yuan. So if things get real messy with china, we can maniplate via issuing not bond backed notes which will make that debt virtually worthless and crush their banking system. Simple as that. The president can issue issuing notes instead of bonds and write a single check for the entire amount we owe them. we could announce it months in advance and by the time they cashed the check it would not be worth even 10 cents on the dollar due to massive world wide inflation. Sure, it would harm us too at home but our banking system could survive as well as our and really this is the bandaid that we are eventually going to have to rip off anyway. its only a matter a time until we do exactly this. We dont have a choice as americans will not accept real tax increases. so instead we will be forced to hide the tax via inflation. No way around this. The entire world knows its coming. And thats why we sell our debt mostly to china and not stronger allies. Even China knows its coming. china accepts our debt because we buy most of the goods they prodice as well protect their supply to the natural resources for which they use to manufacture said goods.

If we stop buying their products due to massive and broad tariffs and we stop protecting their affordable access to oil so it cost a ton more they will be in a world of hurting.

If thats what you call 4D chess, then sure.

the rothschilds created this entire asian market in the 1970's and 80's with massive infrastructure investments. They made this a trading state. Literally out of thin air. Because it's rothschild money heavily invested over their is the only reason we dont fuq with them. Its was also by and large rothschild money that the US borrowed. Up until 2006. At 2006 the rothschilds supposedly left central banking and now strictly have investment house and fund mergers and acquisitions...like when ATT and time warner merge, rothschild money will fund it. Imagine that, outgrowing central banking. I guess its beneath them now. Not likely. they see the writing on the wall. The US will never pay off that debt. Ever. the 8 billion in debt in 2006 was enough for them to "get out." Former rothschild agents(BOA, CITI, CHASE) will be on the hook for most of it along with China.


not sure why china keeps buying this debt though. the big 4 i understand. its all part of the scam. they get to continue to be central bankers and and print money out of thin air when they purchase bonds. we get to continue to borrow money from them. Inflation is the hidden tax. it works. kinda. Just dont see how it works for china. I'm guessing that the big 4 (3 of which are rothschild agents) that started them up in the 70's and 80's force their chinese central banking departments to buy the debt because they too manipulate their currency and can withstand the massive inflation that will come when the US defaults on the debt and is force to issue notes directly instead of bonds...cutting out the US central bankers from their cut.

[cammac]

Trumps war has begun “Trade War” that is. He fired the initial shots with Steel and Aluminum and expanded it to 50 billion worth of products last week. Last week China retaliated with tariffs on American pork as the primary target. This week they have levied duties of 25% on 50 billion of US imports. One that should be very concerning to Trump supporters is the tariffs on farm products such as soya beans (14 billion in exports ) the states most effected are Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Indiana, Nebraska, Ohio, Missouri, South Dakota, Arkansas, North Dakota & Kansas. Most of these states are red states who voted for Trump. Other agricultural products include corn, orange juice, wheat, cotton, beef, tobbaco & whisky. All these are aimed at the “Red State Heartland”. And will cause severe decisons by farmers on what to grow in the spring? I know if I was a Canadian farmer I would be growing soya beans and a American farmer not so much. Plus agriculural equipment, some SUVs and Aircraft are affected.

Trump plans of MAGA are in the toilet! If I were a American manufacturer hit by these tariffs I would look to relocate. Why make a SUV hit with a 25% tariff if you can make that product in Canada or Mexico! You will see a outflow of jobs in those smaller companies affected. Unfortunately for the agricultural sector it is hard to move land. Plus the Japan may also bring tariffs on agricultural products like soya beans, pork & beef.

The Trump Administration is staffed by lightweights who have no concept of international trade. They make noise then tend to back off when the mercurial Spanky MacTrump changes his little mind. Yes domestic markets can fill some of the shortfall but how much tofu will most Americans eat? Plus the consumers are so indoctrinated by the “Walmarting” of the world are they going to accept higher consumer prices and the $1 store going to the $2 store. They will see there meager tax savings being swallowed up by inflation.

[cammac]

Trade imbalances can be resolved but not in the way that Trump has proposed. It requires a sharper minds than any of his minions have. The trade imbalance with the EU can be alleviated with some forward thinking rather than a tariff on steel and aluminum which does nothing except piss the EU off. What has the USA in abundance which the EU needs and will hurt daddy Putin? The obvious answer is natural gas with the fracking the USA will have considerable excess of annual usage plus much of the USA is already connected to a supply of Canadian natural gas. Build some liquid natural gas terminals on the East Coast and export to the EU.

Russian gas major Gazprom said this month it had completed record deliveries towards Europe and the southern Mediterranean in 2017 at a total of 193.9 billion cubic metres - 8 per cent higher than its previous record, set in 2016.

Deliveries to Germany and Austria reached a historic high and exports to France rose by 6.7 per cent compared to 2016, according to Gazprom's figures.

https://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/eu-even-more-dependent-on-russian-gas-1.695131

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/EU_imports_of_energy_products_-_recent_developments

A liquefied natural gas terminal on the West Coast using both USA & Canadian natural gas could supply Japan and Korea again eliminating the deficit in trade.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Japan-Liquefied-Natural-Gas-LNG

These is just one suggestion in eliminating balance of trade problems without creating a trade war. It also hurts Russia which should a major goal of every NATO country.

[TGW]

Foreign leaders just swaggin all over Trump. This is going to be a bloodbath.

Edit: there needed to be some sort of trade war...but it needed to be executed with a scalpel, and not a hacksaw. Trump is simply a buffoon when it comes to tactical policy making, so it’s not a surprise that this is happening.

[montestewart]

Foreign leaders just swaggin all over Trump. This is going to be a bloodbath.

A lot of Trump's moves look like false flag operations. If all these moves just go South, I can see supporters yelling USA! USA! all the louder, as if it were ferners that made it all happen, and of course insisting on patriotic national unity while not giving an inch on any positions at all.

[cammac]

you're a fool if you believe any of that. we consume most of their exports. they cant afford a trade war with us. They also own a lot of out debt. which is in US Dollars. not Yuan. So if things get real messy with china, we can maniplate via issuing not bond backed notes which will make that debt virtually worthless and crush their banking system. Simple as that. The president can issue issuing notes instead of bonds and write a single check for the entire amount we owe them. we could announce it months in advance and by the time they cashed the check it would not be worth even 10 cents on the dollar due to massive world wide inflation. Sure, it would harm us too at home but our banking system could survive as well as our and really this is the bandaid that we are eventually going to have to rip off anyway. its only a matter a time until we do exactly this. We dont have a choice as americans will not accept real tax increases. so instead we will be forced to hide the tax via inflation. No way around this. The entire world knows its coming. And thats why we sell our debt mostly to china and not stronger allies. Even China knows its coming. china accepts our debt because we buy most of the goods they prodice as well protect their supply to the natural resources for which they use to manufacture said goods.

Another moronic post by SD20 and that's not even getting into the Rothchild part.
SD20 is a typical American that knows little about economics in general and China in particular.
What he suggests would cause a worldwide economic crisis and cement the domination of China over the USA. The American GDP would crater the $ would be worthless like the Argentina Peso 20,000 to 1 USA or Venezuelan Bolivar at 10 million to USD. Your asinine prattle would likely make the Yuan the dominant currency on earth. You live in a fools paradise if you think somehow you can effect a country of 1.3 billion people. China has been rapidly moving from a export economy to a internal economy and no the USA doesn't protect Chinese supply lines of natural resources. If you think rational nations would back such a move you are in need of rehab with Spanky MacTrump.

[cammac]

The Rape of the EPA

Just in the past few days, he has rolled back mileage standards instituted by the previous administration, a move that is almost certainly going to get him and the EPA sued by the state of California, whose standards were the model for the new federal ones. From The Washington Post:

“This is a politically motivated effort to weaken clean vehicle standards with no documentation, evidence or law to back up that decision,” Mary Nichols, head of the California Air Resources Board, said in a statement. She argued that the move would “demolish” the nation’s shift toward cleaner cars and that “EPA’s action, if implemented, will worsen people’s health with degraded air quality and undermine regulatory certainty for automakers.”
Meanwhile, Pruitt seems to have missed few opportunities to live fat off the largesse of the federal government he purports to distrust. We've learned even more about Pruitt's travel preferences, and then there’s the sweetheart $50-per-night lodgings in D.C. that he got from the wife of a man who lobbies for the energy industries for whom Pruitt has been a career finger-puppet.

The primary engine of Pruitt’s entire career—and, believe me, he’s got plans for the future, too—has been contempt: contempt for the government, contempt for the environment, contempt for science, and contempt for any concept of limits on any of the people to whom he has sold his favor.

In this, he is the most powerful example of the fact that what Republicans now deplore as “Trumpism” existed in their party long before the president* came along. There is nothing that Pruitt has done—both in office and out—that would not have been done under any Republican president since Ronald Reagan was inaugurated. (Listening to Hewitt explain how “policy” was driving the resistance to Pruitt’s vandalism was to hear even further evidence of this proposition.) Trumpism is modern conservatism with dementia, but the policies were less than sane all along.

James Gaius Watt served as U.S. Secretary of the Interior under President Ronald Reagan from 1981 to 1983. He was probably the most destructive and disruptive of all President Reagan's controversial cabinet appointments to senior advisory positions. He became the most obvious public leader of anti-environmentalism, and he played an instrumental role in ending the Sagebrush Rebellion, an attempt to preserve natural lands of the West against mining and over-grazing. Watt, and his appointees blocked wilderness designation legislation and slowed the work of federal land management agencies.

He was a life-long political apparatchik; trained as a lawyer at the University of Wyoming, but then entering political life as an aide to Republican senator Milward Simpson of Wyoming. His power-base was developed through the US Chamber of Commerce, where he served as Secretary to the Natural Resources Committee, and the Environmental Pollution Advisory Panel - both dedicated to exploiting, rather than preserving.

In 1969 he became deputy assistant secretary o water and power development at the Department of the Interior, and in 1975 he was appointed vice chairman of the Federal Power Commission.

In 1976, Watt founded the Mountain States Legal Foundation, a law firm-cum-think-tank foundation "dedicated to individual liberty, the right to own and use property, limited and ethical government and economic freedom."[1] Both Gale Norton and Ann Veneman worked in the MSLF with Watt, and later became associates in the Reagan Administration…

According to the environmental advocacy group Center for Biological Diversity, for over two decades, Watt held the record for protecting the fewest species under the Endangered Species Act in United States history.[1]

James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the Interior was indicted on 41 felony counts for using connections at the Department of Housing and Urban Development to help his private clients seek federal funds for housing projects in Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Watt conceded that he had received $500,000 from clients who were granted very favorable housing contracts after he had intervened on their behalf. In testifying before a House committee Watt said: "That's what they offered and it sounded like a lot of money to me, and we settled on it." Watt was eventually sentenced to five years in prison** and 500 hours of community service.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/4/4/1754319/-Charles-Pierce-Trumpism-is-modern-conservatism-with-dementia

[Pointgod]

The Rape of the EPA

Just in the past few days, he has rolled back mileage standards instituted by the previous administration, a move that is almost certainly going to get him and the EPA sued by the state of California, whose standards were the model for the new federal ones. From The Washington Post:

“This is a politically motivated effort to weaken clean vehicle standards with no documentation, evidence or law to back up that decision,” Mary Nichols, head of the California Air Resources Board, said in a statement. She argued that the move would “demolish” the nation’s shift toward cleaner cars and that “EPA’s action, if implemented, will worsen people’s health with degraded air quality and undermine regulatory certainty for automakers.”
Meanwhile, Pruitt seems to have missed few opportunities to live fat off the largesse of the federal government he purports to distrust. We've learned even more about Pruitt's travel preferences, and then there’s the sweetheart $50-per-night lodgings in D.C. that he got from the wife of a man who lobbies for the energy industries for whom Pruitt has been a career finger-puppet.

The primary engine of Pruitt’s entire career—and, believe me, he’s got plans for the future, too—has been contempt: contempt for the government, contempt for the environment, contempt for science, and contempt for any concept of limits on any of the people to whom he has sold his favor.

In this, he is the most powerful example of the fact that what Republicans now deplore as “Trumpism” existed in their party long before the president* came along. There is nothing that Pruitt has done—both in office and out—that would not have been done under any Republican president since Ronald Reagan was inaugurated. (Listening to Hewitt explain how “policy” was driving the resistance to Pruitt’s vandalism was to hear even further evidence of this proposition.) Trumpism is modern conservatism with dementia, but the policies were less than sane all along.

James Gaius Watt served as U.S. Secretary of the Interior under President Ronald Reagan from 1981 to 1983. He was probably the most destructive and disruptive of all President Reagan's controversial cabinet appointments to senior advisory positions. He became the most obvious public leader of anti-environmentalism, and he played an instrumental role in ending the Sagebrush Rebellion, an attempt to preserve natural lands of the West against mining and over-grazing. Watt, and his appointees blocked wilderness designation legislation and slowed the work of federal land management agencies.

He was a life-long political apparatchik; trained as a lawyer at the University of Wyoming, but then entering political life as an aide to Republican senator Milward Simpson of Wyoming. His power-base was developed through the US Chamber of Commerce, where he served as Secretary to the Natural Resources Committee, and the Environmental Pollution Advisory Panel - both dedicated to exploiting, rather than preserving.

In 1969 he became deputy assistant secretary o water and power development at the Department of the Interior, and in 1975 he was appointed vice chairman of the Federal Power Commission.

In 1976, Watt founded the Mountain States Legal Foundation, a law firm-cum-think-tank foundation "dedicated to individual liberty, the right to own and use property, limited and ethical government and economic freedom."[1] Both Gale Norton and Ann Veneman worked in the MSLF with Watt, and later became associates in the Reagan Administration…

According to the environmental advocacy group Center for Biological Diversity, for over two decades, Watt held the record for protecting the fewest species under the Endangered Species Act in United States history.[1]

James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the Interior was indicted on 41 felony counts for using connections at the Department of Housing and Urban Development to help his private clients seek federal funds for housing projects in Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Watt conceded that he had received $500,000 from clients who were granted very favorable housing contracts after he had intervened on their behalf. In testifying before a House committee Watt said: "That's what they offered and it sounded like a lot of money to me, and we settled on it." Watt was eventually sentenced to five years in prison** and 500 hours of community service.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/4/4/1754319/-Charles-Pierce-Trumpism-is-modern-conservatism-with-dementia

This is what his voters wanted! Down with regulations, down with regulations! I don't think a lot of people in the US will get the picture until the the country is enveloped in smog like China, the water is polluted and unusable and all the national parks have been sold off to special interests.

[dckingsfan]

The Rape of the EPA

Just in the past few days, he has rolled back mileage standards instituted by the previous administration, a move that is almost certainly going to get him and the EPA sued by the state of California, whose standards were the model for the new federal ones. From The Washington Post:

“This is a politically motivated effort to weaken clean vehicle standards with no documentation, evidence or law to back up that decision,” Mary Nichols, head of the California Air Resources Board, said in a statement. She argued that the move would “demolish” the nation’s shift toward cleaner cars and that “EPA’s action, if implemented, will worsen people’s health with degraded air quality and undermine regulatory certainty for automakers.”
Meanwhile, Pruitt seems to have missed few opportunities to live fat off the largesse of the federal government he purports to distrust. We've learned even more about Pruitt's travel preferences, and then there’s the sweetheart $50-per-night lodgings in D.C. that he got from the wife of a man who lobbies for the energy industries for whom Pruitt has been a career finger-puppet.

The primary engine of Pruitt’s entire career—and, believe me, he’s got plans for the future, too—has been contempt: contempt for the government, contempt for the environment, contempt for science, and contempt for any concept of limits on any of the people to whom he has sold his favor.

In this, he is the most powerful example of the fact that what Republicans now deplore as “Trumpism” existed in their party long before the president* came along. There is nothing that Pruitt has done—both in office and out—that would not have been done under any Republican president since Ronald Reagan was inaugurated. (Listening to Hewitt explain how “policy” was driving the resistance to Pruitt’s vandalism was to hear even further evidence of this proposition.) Trumpism is modern conservatism with dementia, but the policies were less than sane all along.

James Gaius Watt served as U.S. Secretary of the Interior under President Ronald Reagan from 1981 to 1983. He was probably the most destructive and disruptive of all President Reagan's controversial cabinet appointments to senior advisory positions. He became the most obvious public leader of anti-environmentalism, and he played an instrumental role in ending the Sagebrush Rebellion, an attempt to preserve natural lands of the West against mining and over-grazing. Watt, and his appointees blocked wilderness designation legislation and slowed the work of federal land management agencies.

He was a life-long political apparatchik; trained as a lawyer at the University of Wyoming, but then entering political life as an aide to Republican senator Milward Simpson of Wyoming. His power-base was developed through the US Chamber of Commerce, where he served as Secretary to the Natural Resources Committee, and the Environmental Pollution Advisory Panel - both dedicated to exploiting, rather than preserving.

In 1969 he became deputy assistant secretary o water and power development at the Department of the Interior, and in 1975 he was appointed vice chairman of the Federal Power Commission.

In 1976, Watt founded the Mountain States Legal Foundation, a law firm-cum-think-tank foundation "dedicated to individual liberty, the right to own and use property, limited and ethical government and economic freedom."[1] Both Gale Norton and Ann Veneman worked in the MSLF with Watt, and later became associates in the Reagan Administration…

According to the environmental advocacy group Center for Biological Diversity, for over two decades, Watt held the record for protecting the fewest species under the Endangered Species Act in United States history.[1]

James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the Interior was indicted on 41 felony counts for using connections at the Department of Housing and Urban Development to help his private clients seek federal funds for housing projects in Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Watt conceded that he had received $500,000 from clients who were granted very favorable housing contracts after he had intervened on their behalf. In testifying before a House committee Watt said: "That's what they offered and it sounded like a lot of money to me, and we settled on it." Watt was eventually sentenced to five years in prison** and 500 hours of community service.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/4/4/1754319/-Charles-Pierce-Trumpism-is-modern-conservatism-with-dementia

This is what his voters wanted! Down with regulations, down with regulations! I don't think a lot of people in the US will get the picture until the the country is enveloped in smog like China, the water is polluted and unusable and all the national parks have been sold off to special interests.

Well, we want smarter regulations. Look at the deregulation in terms of coal dust disposal - even those in the industry didn't wanted smarter regulation not stupid deregulation. Then look at what they did with trucks that should be off the road due to their pollution. The vast majority of truckers didn't want that either.

[stilldropin20]

you're a fool if you believe any of that. we consume most of their exports. they cant afford a trade war with us. They also own a lot of out debt. which is in US Dollars. not Yuan. So if things get real messy with china, we can maniplate via issuing not bond backed notes which will make that debt virtually worthless and crush their banking system. Simple as that. The president can issue issuing notes instead of bonds and write a single check for the entire amount we owe them. we could announce it months in advance and by the time they cashed the check it would not be worth even 10 cents on the dollar due to massive world wide inflation. Sure, it would harm us too at home but our banking system could survive as well as our and really this is the bandaid that we are eventually going to have to rip off anyway. its only a matter a time until we do exactly this. We dont have a choice as americans will not accept real tax increases. so instead we will be forced to hide the tax via inflation. No way around this. The entire world knows its coming. And thats why we sell our debt mostly to china and not stronger allies. Even China knows its coming. china accepts our debt because we buy most of the goods they prodice as well protect their supply to the natural resources for which they use to manufacture said goods.

Another moronic post by SD20 and that's not even getting into the Rothchild part.
SD20 is a typical American that knows little about economics in general and China in particular.
What he suggests would cause a worldwide economic crisis and cement the domination of China over the USA. The American GDP would crater the $ would be worthless like the Argentina Peso 20,000 to 1 USA or Venezuelan Bolivar at 10 million to USD. Your asinine prattle would likely make the Yuan the dominant currency on earth. You live in a fools paradise if you think somehow you can effect a country of 1.3 billion people. China has been rapidly moving from a export economy to a internal economy and no the USA doesn't protect Chinese supply lines of natural resources. If you think rational nations would back such a move you are in need of rehab with Spanky MacTrump.

oh it would be ugly. i am not denying it that it wont be ugly. It will be 2008-2011 ugly and perhaps slightly worse. But it is becoming our only option. And Trump (filed bankruptcy 4 times), so he is your huckleberry. This man knows when its time (to jump ship), it's time. He is the most game president to ever sit in that office and be completely radical and go entirely against the grain of thew status quo.

here's the thing. The united states is heading to an economic crisis. There is no way around. it. Obama should have dealt with this in 2008. He clearly was in over his head. and allowed the bankers to decide this fate for him. he should have allowed the entire private and central system to crumble right then and there. We were in a severe depression any way and stayed there for nearly a decade.

Allowing the entire banking system to default on all of their inter-banking loans to each was the correct approach. But the banking industry talked Obama and Congress out of. Idiots. they screwed us. we could have allowed it to crumble. then nationalized the entire banking system for pennies on the dollar. And sold those assets for massive profits once the economy recovered. Instead Obama borrowed 6 trillion more to keep it afloat. and put us on an unrecoverable path because no american will accept 70-80% tax rates that it will take to actually pay down the debt. And frankly, I would be hit hard. Why should I pay for the sins of my father? Our great-grandparents had this thing under control. Our grandparents did well. Our parents came in and screwed this thing completely over...I'm assuming most of you are 45-60 years old. Obama just happened to be a very young and naive president but it was him, Bush and the baby boomers generation in general that royally screwed up the debt crisis.

We(USA) simply overspend.

and we have borrowed to the point that right now 1 out of 2 tax dollars goes to just the interest on the debt.

Its not sustainable. And not in the way that a car with bad break pads in not sustainable. Its more like a car that the entire frame and floor board is completely rusted out. If it were a house, it doesn't need a cosmetic make over. The foundation is completely collapsed. We will have to jump this ship. There is no way around it. At this rate We are going to be staring at 40 trillion in debt in 12 years or less. At that point 3 of every 4 dollars will go to just pay the interest on the debt instead of the current rate of 1 of 2.

some president and congress and some point will face this very issue. They will be forced to deal with it. You guys all hate trump anyway. so you may as well encourage him to be the guy. And massive tariffs on imports is the least painful way to address our debt crisis.

let me take this time to remind each and every american that we never had "income" taxes in the USA until 1913(had brief income taxes during civil war).

In 1913 woodrew wilson finally sold us out for good to the european central bankers with the federal reserve and banking act of 1913. We fought them off for 150 years. The initial income tax rate started out at a flat 10%. Income taxes became part of the banking act to secure loans made to our government. Here the funny part. Europe needed the US to enter and engage in WW1 as the german rosthchild family attempted to take over all of europe. the London faction engaged the united states bankers and congress as well as the very weak woodrew wilson and proposed the federal reserve as a central banking system backed by London and designed around the same system. London and france were desperate as they needed troops and ships and arms. the United States needed money to build it. So they created the federal reserve and born of it was never ending source of funds so long as european needs were met via the use of fractional reserve lending where central banks can lend out 10 times more than the reserves they hold at 5% interest rates. They are allowed to print money they dont even have in reserves and collect interest on that money. Its a fraud. its a scam. The general public does not understand how it works. No one in this thread understands how central banking was instrumented in the US as well as I do because I've been studying it for years...but that wont stop cammac from another 15 minute wiki research project and telling me how crazy I am and asserting his authority on the subject.

But the lead is that we only used TAriffs!! and tariffs alone to fund the US federal government from its inception up until 1850's-1860. Lincoln issued income taxes via executive order to fund the north's civil war effort against the south. So we never had income taxes!!! Tariffs on imports was all we had!! It was all they required. and nearly all of those imports came from Europe and European colonies in asia and central and south america.

So why did we get away from tariffs as a sole source to fund and meet the needs of the federal government? I understand that Tariffs are simply hidden taxes but it is "more fair" system to pay and meet the needs of the federal government because like a "sale tax system(as opposed to income tax system)" it depends on the consumption of goods. The more good you consume, the more you pay. So Tariffs are really nothing more than a massive hidden corporate tax. as large corporation do the most importing of foreign goods. I understand that they will pass those costs onto consumers, but they will at least pay their damn tariff first and foremost.

Tying it together. trump would be wise to institute a broad 10-20% tariff on all physical imports. right here. right now. Additionally, he should continue to lower income taxes for families earning less than $100K. ideally to the original 10% flat tax keeping the trump $24K exemption (doubled from $12K. Place a 10% tariff on all goods and services, including non physical goods like intellectual property, banking goods(money). So foreign investors into our markets (real estate and stocks) must pay a tariff to enter our markets. Place additional 10-15% tariffs on all work forces employed over sees. So if ADP or Tmobile wants to outsource their customer service to Asia or India? Fine. But they must pay income taxes here on the US PLUS an additional 10% tariffs on that foreign imported service.

And this is how you tackle the national debt. You get serious about. and just do it. Orrrrrrrrr just rip off the damn baid and issue notes instead of bonds collapsing the global financial markets. But we dont have to do that. We can instread, Stop caving to corporate america and place broad tariffs on all goods. Hidden tax be damned. Cost of living be damned. We could pay off the debt in 8 years or less with a 10% tariff on all imported goods, services, foreign investments into our markets, and imported employment. Whats more is these tariffs would force US companies to produce more here, employ more here...which would lessen the entitlement load. Increase the retirement age to 72 would help greatly. Basically never retire!! (dont forget, I'm old and i plan to never retire until i just physically can not get out of bed so i hurt myself with this policy but that is what is needed). Also, foreign investors have ballooned our real estate markets. They own most of our coasts. Placing stiff tariffs on their initial investments into our real estate markets would temper their surge and make real estate less expensive for Americans-a good thing.

So IMO this "trade war" is not a good thing. its a great thing. Let's get back to stiffer tariffs on imports instead of income tax. If a trade war ensues? bring it on muthaphuckas!! the only thing that will happen in the end is more things will get made in america again which means more jobs back in america. I dont care if my TV will cost $275 or $900. or if the phone costs 900 instead of 500. And if that cost hurts you?? You cant afford it. use your old 42 inch TV. save some money. and buy the 65 inch when you can afford it. same for your car. same for your clothes. Added benefit is this could help put an end to child labor and sweatshop labor?

[Pointgod]

The Rape of the EPA








https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/4/4/1754319/-Charles-Pierce-Trumpism-is-modern-conservatism-with-dementia

This is what his voters wanted! Down with regulations, down with regulations! I don't think a lot of people in the US will get the picture until the the country is enveloped in smog like China, the water is polluted and unusable and all the national parks have been sold off to special interests.

Well, we want smarter regulations. Look at the deregulation in terms of coal dust disposal - even those in the industry didn't wanted smarter regulation not stupid deregulation. Then look at what they did with trucks that should be off the road due to their pollution. The vast majority of truckers didn't want that either.

Point to me where Republicans have ever campaigned on "smart" regulations. This is exactly what Trump campaigned on. He said he'd get rid of job killing regulations. News flash in the Republican ideology EVERY regulation is job killing. They would gladly gut every single environmental regulation as long as it benefits their corporate donors. Republicans don't give a **** if they turn the country into a inhabitable dumpster fire as long as they enrich themselves along the way. This is what happens when you put Republicans in power and this will be true 50 years from now. The crazy thing is that the regulations in the U.S. aren't even as stringent as other developed countries. But if you actually give a **** about anything other than tax cuts to the top 5% then you might want look into another party.

[stilldropin20]

Foreign leaders just swaggin all over Trump. This is going to be a bloodbath.

A lot of Trump's moves look like false flag operations. If all these moves just go South, I can see supporters yelling USA! USA! all the louder, as if it were ferners that made it all happen, and of course insisting on patriotic national unity while not giving an inch on any positions at all.

"trade war" is necessary. But its not really a "war." far from it. We have trade imbalances. They hurt. but we also have to increase corporate taxes. We cant do so directly or else large corporation will shelter their money oversees in more favorable tax shelters. So Tariffs are "nifty and clean way" to increase the corporate tax via hidden tax via tariffs. So this really aint a trade war. at all. It's a way to tax large coprations that import the majority of the product coming into the country. The left is framing this as a 'war" to scare people away from what we need to do which is to increase taxes on imports via tariff. Again, I do understand that these tarfiff costs will be passed on to the consumer but it is a necessary evil to balance the budget, pay down the national debt, and encourage job growth here in the USA.

Let me say this again. We did not have income taxes in the USA until the the creation of the federal reserve in 1913. The central bankers required collateral for this (fractional reserve) "lending." it was a scam. that collateral was the implementation of a federal income tax rate of 10%.

Think about all of that.

then you need to understand that European central bankers were covert operators of the federal reserve. Rockefellor and JP Morgan were mere Rothschild agents lacking the funds and collateral to actually lend the United states government the money it needed to fund WW1 and WW2.

So...tying it together: global central bankers that financed global enterprise "encouraged" the United States to transition from a tariff based federal funding into an income tax based federal funding system. Exactly what we fought against in 1776. and didn't like from the 1500's-1776. We railed against taxation. Formed a country defying these kinds of taxes. We finally caved in 1913 allowed the central banking serpents to take full control of the country. income taxes were immediately implemented as collateral to the issuing of bonds and borrowing against them to fund the federal government. And we became a debtors nation on that day. europe was all to familiar with the resistance of "the people" to pay taxes. Kingdom were toppled all across Europe for hundreds of years over this very issue: the inability to pay for armed forces sufficient enough to protect themselves. So borrowing became the norm. Inflation the hidden tax. And this is what nobody can wrap their heads around. this is where true harmful stupidity lies.

Stupidy is not the harmless trump supporter that barks "USA, USA" at the trump rally. thats harmless. (the fact that trump is a business man and understand finance...if anything...trump understands finance. That's all he does is use other's people's money and hard work to make money.) Trump gets this. All of this. he understands bottom lines. Liability. Financial leverage. So do all the billionaires he has surrounded himself with. So people that blindly follow trump are not a problem. he may embarrass them but he wont lead them to doom. And doom is not understanding that the United States has a fiscal problem. worse yet are those educated folks. the economists. the lawyers, the doctors. That think that because they are smarter than your typical trump blue collar worker that they actually know something. And that's where HARMFUL stupidity come into play. those that appear to be "smart" actually have no clue about the REAL history of our central banking system...yet they talk and act like they do.

Since those "smarty pants" voters have no clue about the history and origins of our central banking system they also have no idea how to help it, fix it, or know when its time to tear it down altogether. They have no idea how to address the national debt because they foolishly allowed the central bankers to also dominate private banking. So if/when the central banking system collapses so does the private banking system. Obviously the European bankers were very clever and well aware that they needed to tie the two together. So as to prevent governments defaulting on the loans without the banks being able to default on private citizens holdings. No politician could survive that. No congress.

Whats worse is that our central bankers have written nearly all of our banking laws. bankers wrote the federal reserve act of 1913 and every single piece of banking legislation to come since then. Built into these laws are bankruptcy protection clauses in case of default or collapse which gives them all golden parachutes and allows them to continue to hoard and hold all the wealth that they have already converted into various family Trusts.

The crazy thing is that the original gold backed banking system combined with import tariffs system was just as stable of the central banking system. the USA was already rich in oil, iron ore, GOLD, lumber, gypsum and limestone ( concrete and bricks) fertile flat soil and plentiful with land fresh water and a healthy climate to grow crops and live. We had/have it all!!! We had everything we needed right here to become a super power. and we had "free land" to give away for hundreds of years encouraging immigrants to come and live free of the "kings taxes." We initially had our own banks that issued interest free Notes(legal tender) NOT backed by interest accumulating bonds!!

So why change it!!!!??? Banks and economies were no more stable after the the federal reserve act. Recall the crash of 1929 and 2008.

the federal reserve act was the most devlish trick ever pulled on the american people. this is the heart and soul of our national debt and designed to make us a debtor nation. All so the international bankers can earn 5% But its not just 5% when you are allowed to lend out 10 times the amount you hold in reserves. it's 50% interest they collect for every single dollar they hold in reserve. And in the private secotr those rates average 7.5% so nearly 80% interest rates for every dollar they actually have to lend out.

Why!!!?????? And the only collateral they have is the backs of the american tax payer. Think about this folks. its complex. and its not so complex. But its designed to trick you. and no one talks about. No one.

trump talks about it indirectly because he says things like raise tariffs and "keep the oil." And trump is the only guy to talk about it since Kennedy (who was assassinated).

[cammac]

I grew up in a farming community and know how people think yes they tend to be conservative but they also look out after there own best interests. Sonny Perdue the head of the USDA made this statement.

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Trump tells USDA chief farmers won’t be hurt by China trade dispute
© Greg Nash

Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue said on Wednesday that President Trump told him farmers will not be hurt by an ongoing trade dispute with China.

Speaking at a town hall discussion in Ohio, Perdue said that the recently announced Chinese tariffs on $50 billion worth of U.S. products could be concerning to farmers but noted that the president said they shouldn’t worry.

"I talked to the president as recently as last night," Perdue said. "And he said, 'Sonny, you can assure your farmers out there that we're not going to allow them to be the casualties if this trade dispute escalates. We're going to take care of our American farmers. You can tell them that directly.'"

Exactly what is Trump going to do? The reality is that the USA is a very productive country in agriculture but it also must export huge amounts of product. Plus it contradicts what Republican Senators are saying.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) warned that Chinese tariffs could greatly hurt farmers.

"The United States should take action to defend its interests when any foreign nation isn’t playing by the rules or refuses to police itself. But farmers and ranchers shouldn’t be expected to bear the brunt of retaliation for the entire country," Grassley said in a statement.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/381627-trump-tells-agriculture-secretary-farmers-they-wont-be-hurt-by-trade

This is a story by a daughter of a farm family who is liberal and does go against mainstream thinking in her State. But does put the farming communities thought process succinctly.

I am the daughter, granddaughter, niece, and cousin of Kansas farmers. Soybean has and continues to be an important cash crop. My family grows several other cash crops such as corn, wheat, milo, and cotton. They raise sheep and cattle. They work hard, rarely take a day off, and struggle to pay bills.

I am torn between loyalty to my family and loyalty to my authentic self. The farming economy has been reeling from oversupply and increased competition. Kansas farm incomes collapsed, from an average of $196,000 in 2011 to a mere $4,568.00 in 2015. Crop prices dropped to historic lows while production prices increased. The average cost for a new harvesting combine is over $400,000.00, and Trump’s tariffs on imported aluminum and steel are expected to increase costs by nearly 25% this year alone. China’s retaliatory tariffs, so far restricted to soybeans and pork but expected to widen quickly, have sent rural producers into a frenzy.I am torn because my family voted for this to happen and ignored repeated warnings that their choices would harm them. They have voted uniformly Republican since the 1980s, mesmerized by rhetoric which tells them that because they are white, heterosexual Christians that they are somehow “special,” “God’s chosen,” and the “rightful” rulers of America. They have been told that people with brown skin, non-Christians, the LGBT community, and women are “weakening” the United States by simply asking to be treated equally. The refrain “God, gays, and guns” is how my family has voted for two generations. Donald Trump doubled and tripled down on the hateful rhetoric, daring to voice what many members of my family believe. Trump won 95% of the vote in several rural Kansas counties.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/4/4/1754438/-Trump-Republicans-Rural-Kansas-and-Schadenfreude

[cammac]

White House response to farmers! Praise the "Lord" and spread the manure!

“We may have a little bit of short-term pain but we're certainly going to have long-term success.”

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/4/4/1754447/-White-House-spokesperson-assures-farmers-their-little-bit-of-short-term-pain-will-all-be-worth-it