'17-'18 POY discussion

[bondom34]

Ideas come up on the trade board. A few teams w/ bad-ish money may want him on potential he improves, Charlotte has Batum's deal, Orlando has a few. Maybe Atlanta

Lol trading for Wiggins would be the most Charlotte move ever. I could totally see it happening.

I'm way low on Wiggins but I might do it if I were them. No really great young guys right now and Batum is due another 3 years and likely $76 mil unless he opts out, which I doubt given his play

[Pillendreher]

Basically no GM worth anything should trade for him unless they have large contracts of comparable length they are trying to get rid of, and it's hard to imagine Minny would really benefit from another team's leavings.

Presti would definitely love to get his hands on him. There isn't a single player in the league Presti thought he couldn't fix.

[Mystical Apples]

Ideas come up on the trade board. A few teams w/ bad-ish money may want him on potential he improves, Charlotte has Batum's deal, Orlando has a few. Maybe Atlanta

Lol trading for Wiggins would be the most Charlotte move ever. I could totally see it happening.

I'm way low on Wiggins but I might do it if I were them. No really great young guys right now and Batum is due another 3 years and likely $76 mil unless he opts out, which I doubt given his play

Just shoot me

[Doctor MJ]

So Butler is back.

And goddamn does he look good. There are few players in the league right now I appreciate watching more than him. If you want to get an idea of why he’s been so transformative for Minnesota, check 2 plays last night:

1. He guards Lopez at the arc after a switch. Pokes the ball away and as Lopez is falling out of bounds to recover and find a guy to pass too Butler leaps toward half-court to jump the passing lane taking away the safety valve pass. There are maybe 2 or 3 players in the whole league that can think on their feet like this.

2. Butler drives into traffic, tosses up a pretty bad floater, but Towns flies in for the tip dunk. Butler spends the entire change of possession period staring down and pumping up Towns. I mean how can you not love playing with a guy like this.

He’s a special player, and even with his missed month I’m considering giving him a top 5 nod if he shows out in the postseason.

I agree. Butler has moved up a tier in my mind this year. Or rather, I had a wider range in which I could see ranking him in before, and now that floor is considerably higher. Regardless, the sheer force of his drive is exceptionally rare and I don't know if any team needs that as much as Minny.

[Doctor MJ]

Ideas come up on the trade board. A few teams w/ bad-ish money may want him on potential he improves, Charlotte has Batum's deal, Orlando has a few. Maybe Atlanta

Lol trading for Wiggins would be the most Charlotte move ever. I could totally see it happening.

Crap. Yeah, it really would be classic Jordan.

[MisterHibachi]

Air Jordan trading for Maple Jordan is inevitable.

[Doctor MJ]

Basically no GM worth anything should trade for him unless they have large contracts of comparable length they are trying to get rid of, and it's hard to imagine Minny would really benefit from another team's leavings.

Presti would definitely love to get his hands on him. There isn't a single player in the league Presti thought he couldn't fix.

I don't think Presti is that foolish. You've got Westbrook and Adams, literally all you should be looking for are 3 & D guys. If he doesn't realize that than he really does deserve to be fired.

[Dr Positivity]

I feel like the TWolves owner is behind the love affair with Wiggins. Bad situation to be in, though he's played so bad even he might see the light

Anyways, I would call the Knicks

[Pillendreher]

Basically no GM worth anything should trade for him unless they have large contracts of comparable length they are trying to get rid of, and it's hard to imagine Minny would really benefit from another team's leavings.

Presti would definitely love to get his hands on him. There isn't a single player in the league Presti thought he couldn't fix.

I don't think Presti is that foolish. You've got Westbrook and Adams, literally all you should be looking for are 3 & D guys. If he doesn't realize that than he really does deserve to be fired.

He's a young, very athletic guy, with loads of (supposed) potential and Presti might be out of an SF yet again at the end of the season. I could certainly see it. He has been looking for 'his project' (aka a player who breaks out while playing on the Thunder even though people were writing him off before) for years.

[bondom34]

Presti would definitely love to get his hands on him. There isn't a single player in the league Presti thought he couldn't fix.

I don't think Presti is that foolish. You've got Westbrook and Adams, literally all you should be looking for are 3 & D guys. If he doesn't realize that than he really does deserve to be fired.

He's a young, very athletic guy, with loads of (supposed) potential and Presti might be out of an SF yet again at the end of the season. I could certainly see it. He has been looking for 'his project' (aka a player who breaks out while playing on the Thunder even though people were writing him off before) for years.

I'm not sure he has the wingspan

Also though I know Presti has his prototype guys, Wiggins doesn't really fit it much, he hasn't shown it defensively enough yet IMO

I hope.

[Doctor MJ]

Presti would definitely love to get his hands on him. There isn't a single player in the league Presti thought he couldn't fix.

I don't think Presti is that foolish. You've got Westbrook and Adams, literally all you should be looking for are 3 & D guys. If he doesn't realize that than he really does deserve to be fired.

He's a young, very athletic guy, with loads of (supposed) potential and Presti might be out of an SF yet again at the end of the season. I could certainly see it. He has been looking for 'his project' (aka a player who breaks out while playing on the Thunder even though people were writing him off before) for years.

Perhaps. Not going to claim I know what's in his head.

My perspective on Presti is that on the whole his mistakes have been in tricky situations. They hurt but they don't scream "incompetent" to me.

The classic case is of course Harden, which I decried at the time and never stopped crying about. The reality is though that most executive didn't understand how good Harden was, and if you didn't understand, well, giving your 3rd perimeter scorer a max contract was unprecedented.

Him acquiring Melo was a mistake no matter how you look at it, however after Harden OKC's reputation was as an organization without the stomach to spend what it needed to maximize its chance at winning a title (deservedly so), and after Durant left they needed to change that narrative as soon as possible. Acquiring George and Melo sent that message. And as stupid as acquiring Melo now looks, the reality is that aside from his star power, his time as an off-ball shooter in the Olympics has been praised for years. It made sense for a team to try to acquire Melo to play in that way.

I just don't think acquiring Wiggins makes sense from any serious basketball angle. Building around Westbrook, if you're going to spend big money for outside guys, they have to be guys that have established mature skills that Westbrook's team has a lack of. That ain't Wiggins. Frankly you could argue that Westbrook is what Wiggins was supposed to be. The last thing Westbrook needs to be paired with is a much inferior version of himself.

[laika]

A pretty ironic situation could be developing.

A first round loss would clearly demonstrate that Curry is the real MVP of the league. However, a first round loss would also eliminate Curry from POY consideration.

[Dr Spaceman]

A pretty ironic situation could be developing.

A first round loss would clearly demonstrate that Curry is the real MVP of the league. However, a first round loss would also eliminate Curry from POY consideration.

It is truly shocking. I mean I truly don’t know what to say when New Orleans looks like the far more cohesive and better put together team. Without Curry it there, the Warriors truly don’t make sense. I mean this is crazy.

Rajon Rondo making the key defensive play on Durant down the stretch? Sure why not. Mirotic sinking a bunch of 3s in the first half? I’ll buy it. A bottom half playoff seed putting up a buck thirty on a team with Draymond Green?

I mean come on. Play with some pride. New Orleans has been a mess until the last 20% of the season and they looked like a serious contender tonight. Rarely have I seen such a great team become so helpless without their best guy.

[Senior]

A pretty ironic situation could be developing.

A first round loss would clearly demonstrate that Curry is the real MVP of the league. However, a first round loss would also eliminate Curry from POY consideration.

That's crazy to think about. This is one of the few MVP-level players (in recent memory, anyway) that's been in this situation - missing a big chunk of the season and then a big chunk of playoffs on a proven title team. KG in 09 is the only one I can think of in this millennium and it played out just as you said - he got 0 POY votes that year despite 1) winning in 08 and 2) Boston playing at an 08ish level until his injury.

[Mystical Apples]

Jokic continues his push for top 5 inclusion.

[Dr Spaceman]

Jokic continues his push for top 5 inclusion.

Does he? I can’t think of many star players more disappointing this season

[PaulieWal]

Man, as much as I think Harden has been the best player in the game this year overall I just can't enjoy his game or really respect his "skill-set". He still remains the most boring and unwatchable superstar to me.

https://streamable.com/elvtg

[Dr Spaceman]

Man, as much as I think Harden has been the best player in the game this year overall I just can't enjoy his game or really respect his "skill-set". He still remains the most boring and unwatchable superstar to me.

https://streamable.com/elvtg

I love watching Harden play. He reminds me of a perimeter Kevin McHale. You can watch him iso ten times per game and see a different move out of his bag of tricks every single time. The way he manipulates guys with fakes and leans and gets them to shift before going in for the kill is so cool, and his skill level as a perimeter shooter is GOAT.

Yeah, it sucks that sometimes he baits for fouls. It also sucks that LeBron charges his should into people which should clearly be called offensive foul a few times a game. Sucks that Chris Paul does that move at halfcoutt that has injured Anthony Davis twice. SUcks that Manu flops. Sucks that Wade bitches at refs instead of getting back on D. Sucks that Westbrook takes rebounds from his teammates.

Every player does irritating stuff. Just have to take the good with the bad IMO.

[dontcalltimeout]

Jokic continues his push for top 5 inclusion.

Does he? I can’t think of many star players more disappointing this season

Can I ask why you think so? He has his team in the mix despite missing Millsap for 44 games and now Gary Harris their highest scoring perimeter player for 15 games and counting.

He also has a higher on-court differential (+6.9) than Davis, Westbrook, Lillard, Antetokounmpo so i'm not sure it's fair to blame him if you see the team as underperforming. That includes leading an on-court ortg of 116.0 (for reference Harden's is 117.0) which is really strong for any non-Rockets/Warriors and higher than Lowry or DeRozan.

[PaulieWal]

Man, as much as I think Harden has been the best player in the game this year overall I just can't enjoy his game or really respect his "skill-set". He still remains the most boring and unwatchable superstar to me.

https://streamable.com/elvtg

I love watching Harden play. He reminds me of a perimeter Kevin McHale. You can watch him iso ten times per game and see a different move out of his bag of tricks every single time. The way he manipulates guys with fakes and leans and gets them to shift before going in for the kill is so cool, and his skill level as a perimeter shooter is GOAT.

Yeah, it sucks that sometimes he baits for fouls. It also sucks that LeBron charges his should into people which should clearly be called offensive foul a few times a game. Sucks that Chris Paul does that move at halfcoutt that has injured Anthony Davis twice. SUcks that Manu flops. Sucks that Wade bitches at refs instead of getting back on D. Sucks that Westbrook takes rebounds from his teammates.

Every player does irritating stuff. Just have to take the good with the bad IMO.

Eh...none of the things you listed actually take away from my enjoyment of watching the superstar except for CP also trying to bait for fouls which actually ended up costing him the OKC series. Harden just takes it to a whole new level and so many Houston games I watch all you get left with the feeling is that his entire game is baiting people into fouls or selling fouls which aren't even fouls like this PG call.

Like seriously, there is no comparison between Russ "stealing" boards or Wade not getting back on D vs a guy who relies significantly on getting BS foul calls. How is that even close to being the same thing in terms of enjoyment? And yes, Wade not getting back on transition is D is very damn annoying but not what I am talking about and Harden does a lot of that stuff anyway (not getting back in transition, just giving up on entire plays if a ref doesn't bail him out etc).