Warriors without Steph Curry

[druggas]

He has Curry level impact which I would take over LeBron level impact. Look at plus minus and RAPM.
Also Irving and Love or Green and Thompson? The first pair were all-stars even before LeBron.

Yeah, let's look at stats which greatly benefit from the fact that Curry plays with 2-3 all-stars and deep bench - the most stacked team of all time. :lol: It kills me how people on this forum use stats so obliviously.

That's the whole point, Curry makes his teammates all-stars. Klay and Draymond wouldn't be perennial all stars on any other team. The only reason they're all stars is because the Warriors win so many damn games and they have to credit that to someone. Klay on his own team would struggle to make all star teams, just like Dame does. Draymond on another team would probably be a defensive role player, but he'd probably stand in a corner on offense to be hidden. I don't see too many teams running offense through a below average scorer. How many other superstars or lead offensive guys would be willing to not have the ball in their hands.

If Lebron played on this Warriors team instead of Steph and sans Durant, everyone would be claiming he needs more help that he needs shooters.

That's good comedy right there!

[mademan]

He has Curry level impact which I would take over LeBron level impact. Look at plus minus and RAPM.
Also Irving and Love or Green and Thompson? The first pair were all-stars even before LeBron.

Yeah, let's look at stats which greatly benefit from the fact that Curry plays with 2-3 all-stars and deep bench - the most stacked team of all time. It kills me how people on this forum use stats so obliviously.

That's the whole point, Curry makes his teammates all-stars. Klay and Draymond wouldn't be perennial all stars on any other team. The only reason they're all stars is because the Warriors win so many damn games and they have to credit that to someone. Klay on his own team would struggle to make all star teams, just like Dame does. Draymond on another team would probably be a defensive role player, but he'd probably stand in a corner on offense to be hidden. I don't see too many teams running offense through a below average scorer. How many other superstars or lead offensive guys would be willing to not have the ball in their hands.

If Lebron played on this Warriors team instead of Steph and sans Durant, everyone would be claiming he needs more help that he needs shooters.

Thats hilarious. Klay on the Cavs would be a Korver who actually plays defense. Draymond would be a suped up TT that got that 80 mill contract.

[Onus]

Yeah, let's look at stats which greatly benefit from the fact that Curry plays with 2-3 all-stars and deep bench - the most stacked team of all time. It kills me how people on this forum use stats so obliviously.

That's the whole point, Curry makes his teammates all-stars. Klay and Draymond wouldn't be perennial all stars on any other team. The only reason they're all stars is because the Warriors win so many damn games and they have to credit that to someone. Klay on his own team would struggle to make all star teams, just like Dame does. Draymond on another team would probably be a defensive role player, but he'd probably stand in a corner on offense to be hidden. I don't see too many teams running offense through a below average scorer. How many other superstars or lead offensive guys would be willing to not have the ball in their hands.

If Lebron played on this Warriors team instead of Steph and sans Durant, everyone would be claiming he needs more help that he needs shooters.

Thats hilarious. Klay on the Cavs would be a Korver who actually plays defense. Draymond would be a suped up TT that got that 80 mill contract.

It’s hilarious that you think the warriors have nearly the same amount of shooting as the cavs do. You really think klay, Barnes and Ian Clark can outshoot Kyle, Kyrie, love, jr, Frye, delle.

All of lebrons fans keep saying he needs more help on defense well if he didn’t have to stack his team full of shooters he’d have more room for defenders.

[Potedon]

I've said this before he went down but can anyone tell me why kd is supposed to he the superior player? Yeah he has more impact on defense since he is much taller but curry impacts the game way more than kd that IDK why people keep saying that kd is better

Because KD's a much better player?

Did you watch him against NO today? Certainly can't pin the loss on him even if he faded a bit down the stretch.

More impactful for a team doesn't equal better player, sorry.

UHHHH okay. You can have the better player every day of the week if it means I get the most impactful.

What the **** does that even mean?

Pretty simple concept, GSW simply hasn't done a great job getting a better backup PG and the starters can't replicate what Curry does. And I know what you're going to say, "no one can do what he does" and that's true, but GS really needs a better ballhander. Klay is a great player, he makes Curry better by taking all the tough defensive assignments, and playing with the bench while Curry gets to play with all stars every time he's on court. So Klay has definitely helped Curry, probably more than Curry has helped him, but Klay is only a decent ball handler so he can't emulate Curry when Curry is out. If the Warriors traded Klay for someone like McCollum, the Warriors would be better able to handle Curry being out, but would also be a worse team overall when healthy.

[YogurtProducer]

Because KD's a much better player?

Did you watch him against NO today? Certainly can't pin the loss on him even if he faded a bit down the stretch.

More impactful for a team doesn't equal better player, sorry.

UHHHH okay. You can have the better player every day of the week if it means I get the most impactful.

What the **** does that even mean?

Pretty simple concept, GSW simply hasn't done a great job getting a better backup PG and the starters can't replicate what Curry does. And I know what you're going to say, "no one can do what he does" and that's true, but GS really needs a better ballhander. Klay is a great player, he makes Curry better by taking all the tough defensive assignments, and playing with the bench while Curry gets to play with all stars every time he's on court. So Klay has definitely helped Curry, probably more than Curry has helped him, but Klay is only a decent ball handler so he can't emulate Curry when Curry is out. If the Warriors traded Klay for someone like McCollum, the Warriors would be better able to handle Curry being out, but would also be a worse team overall when healthy.

Nah, Curry is just that good

[reborn123]

Curry is the most valuable player: 3 straight 67-win seasons when he was healthy.

Curry's so valuable he lets his all-star teammates outplay him in finals.

On a serious note, Curry is certainly valuable to his team and is integral to helping them play at a championship level but GSW is not falling apart without him. He doesn't have LeBron-level impact.

Why start from 2011? I mean the Dubs and Steph were both irrelevant back then, as in 0% chance at ringing or winning MVP. But I guess the numbers put him in the best light starting from 2011.

Their record w/o Steph is 25-12 since his MVP season. Good enough pace for 2nd in the West this year, exactly where they are.

On paper, LeBron should have a bigger impact, because he has the tools over Curry to be a superior rebounder and defender. But Curry is a way superior shooter and along with that comes a certain kind of gravity not even LeBron has.

[DaPessimist]

I gotta be honest, we look like crap right now. We aren't generating any easy buckets in the half-court. It's essentially KD and Klay taking turns hitting contested jumpers.

Livingston and Iggy are shells of their former selves, and we have a G-League PG running the offense. If we played Houston right now, they would sweep us.

[WarriorGM]

Curry is the most valuable player: 3 straight 67-win seasons when he was healthy.

Curry's so valuable he lets his all-star teammates outplay him in finals.

On a serious note, Curry is certainly valuable to his team and is integral to helping them play at a championship level but GSW is not falling apart without him. He doesn't have LeBron-level impact.

On paper, LeBron should have a bigger impact, because he has the tools over Curry to be a superior rebounder and defender. But Curry is a way superior shooter and along with that comes a certain kind of gravity not even LeBron has.

Steph also has handles and is fast around the court with the ball and without. Combine that with his gravity and you have not just a black hole but a moving black hole.

[reborn123]

Curry's so valuable he lets his all-star teammates outplay him in finals.

On a serious note, Curry is certainly valuable to his team and is integral to helping them play at a championship level but GSW is not falling apart without him. He doesn't have LeBron-level impact.

On paper, LeBron should have a bigger impact, because he has the tools over Curry to be a superior rebounder and defender. But Curry is a way superior shooter and along with that comes a certain kind of gravity not even LeBron has.

Steph also has handles and is fast around the court with the ball and without. Combine that with his gravity and you have not just a black hole but a moving black hole.

Elite playmaking too, something Durant doesn’t have. I think I was wrong before in saying Durant was the better player. This system needs Curry to work.

[clyde21]

I still don't understand how Thompsons tanks so badly without Curry. He goes from 67 TS% with Durant on the floor AND Curry to 52 TS% with Durant on the floor and Curry on the bench. He's shooting 35 % from 3 compared to 49 % with Curry next to him. How is that possible? It's not like people leave him open, even with Curry.

This is why I consistently say Thompson's overrated. He has one great trick offensively: his shooting...which happens to plummet into mediocre territory when he's not playing with Curry.

[clyde21]

I've said this before he went down but can anyone tell me why kd is supposed to he the superior player? Yeah he has more impact on defense since he is much taller but curry impacts the game way more than kd that IDK why people keep saying that kd is better

Because KD's a much better player?

Did you watch him against NO today? Certainly can't pin the loss on him even if he faded a bit down the stretch.

More impactful for a team doesn't equal better player, sorry.

UHHHH okay. You can have the better player every day of the week if it means I get the most impactful.

What the **** does that even mean?

Because derps like the aforementioned see KD blocking a couple of shots a game and think, "look, steph can't do that, KD must be betterz!!!!"...without taking into account all of the things that Steph does infinitely better than KD that make much more impact on a per possession basis.

[WarriorGM]

I still don't understand how Thompsons tanks so badly without Curry. He goes from 67 TS% with Durant on the floor AND Curry to 52 TS% with Durant on the floor and Curry on the bench. He's shooting 35 % from 3 compared to 49 % with Curry next to him. How is that possible? It's not like people leave him open, even with Curry.

Steph and Klay have played with each other so long that I think they've optimized their playing rhythm. Klay seems to need the ball more than he has been getting from KD or they need to work out some wrinkles.

This is why I consistently say Thompson's overrated. He has one great trick offensively: his shooting...which happens to plummet into mediocre territory when he's not playing with Curry.

You underestimate Klay. Undoubtedly a shooter like him benefits a lot from the spacing Steph brings but he's shown he can carry the team previously when Steph's been out. Klay and KD just need to figure out how to play to bring the best out of each other. Tonight was yet another example. Klay was given more room to score while KD dialed it back and the Warriors won. The Dubs seem to do better with a balanced attack. They went through this last year with Steph and KD now the situation is focusing attention to adjustments that need to be made between Klay and KD.

[Outside]

Its going to be the first time in 20 years the Spurs do not win 50 games. All things come to an end.

Winning 50 games every year is hard...very hard...this is still one of the greatest four year runs ever by a franchise. I think what happens is the mental side is harder to maintain than the physical side. Even with all the teams trying to rest players, keep them fresh and all that, the mental side with fan expectations being so high it is hard to maintain year after year.

It is why winning back to back championships is so impressive...it is why winning three in a row is damn near impossible and no one has won four titles in a row. Individual stats are easier to achieve than team stats because you only have to worry about what you do. Getting an entire team motivated for years is damn near impossible......

I know it was a different era and all, but the Celtics did win eight titles in a row (1959-66) and 11 in Russell's 13 years.

[KDBG]

It's amazing to think that clumsy ass JaVale McGee could have potentially cost the Warriors another championship. I know it was an accident, but damn.

I don't care what anyone says, Curry is the 2nd best player in the league still in my eyes.

[Pennebaker]

You'll find those numbers on Page 5.

Spoiler:

They prove clyde21 correct.

No. Page 5 tells us that today's Warriors win the majority of games without Steph Curry. Clyde21 is trying to tell us a different story where the Warriors lose the majority of games without Steph Curry.

Do you think the Cavs would win the majority of their games without LeBron? Of course not. So Clyde21's premise of "Him and LeBron are--BY FAR--the two most impactful/valuable players in the league" based on his screenshot is completely misguided and misleading.

No, Page 5 tells you this:

41-10 when Steph plays ---------------------------> .804

And it tells you this:

16-13 without Curry on the year after the loss to the Pelicans in Oakland tonight.

That's a .552 wining percentage which equates to 45 wins (45-37) over an 82-game season.

Put together, for this season, GSW is an amazing 41-10 (.804) when Curry plays, and a pedestrian 16-13 (.552) when he does not. That's a huge swing--a lot different than merely "Page 5 tells us that today's Warriors win the majority of games without Steph Curry."

That's a winning team either way. Cleveland will lose more games than they win without LeBron, so my point stands.

[LeBird]

That's the whole point, Curry makes his teammates all-stars. Klay and Draymond wouldn't be perennial all stars on any other team. The only reason they're all stars is because the Warriors win so many damn games and they have to credit that to someone. Klay on his own team would struggle to make all star teams, just like Dame does. Draymond on another team would probably be a defensive role player, but he'd probably stand in a corner on offense to be hidden. I don't see too many teams running offense through a below average scorer. How many other superstars or lead offensive guys would be willing to not have the ball in their hands.

If Lebron played on this Warriors team instead of Steph and sans Durant, everyone would be claiming he needs more help that he needs shooters.

Yeah, that's nonsense. GSW are still a 50-60 win team even without Curry.

If LeBron had GSW without Durant they'd be winning every year.

[HiRez]

Yeah, that's nonsense. GSW are still a 50-60 win team even without Curry.

If LeBron had GSW without Durant they'd be winning every year.

If you mean remove Curry from the Warriors, there is no way in hell they win ~55 games. I’d say mid 40s as the numbers without Curry provided by a poster above suggest. However, if you are saying the Warriors don’t have Curry and add a replacement maybe it’s fair. If his replacement is Lillard or Irving they probably do win that many.

[LeBird]

If you mean remove Curry from the Warriors, there is no way in hell they win ~55 games. I’d say mid 40s as the numbers without Curry provided by a poster above suggest. However, if you are saying the Warriors don’t have Curry and add a replacement maybe it’s fair. If his replacement is Lillard or Irving they probably do win that many.

Even if he is replaced by nobody, they will win 50+ games. Since his 1st MVP season, without Curry the Warriors are 25-12 - that is a 55 win pace team.

People are also oblivious to the fact that the team is set up for Steph to be the primary ball handler and for the team to be set up to suit his skills. Without Curry, they would revamp the team. They are not falling off with Green, Durant, Klay, Iggy and Livingston. In fact, they'd still be one of the favourites.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Curry the true alpha dog in GS. Always has been!


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[The Duke]

Misleading stat.
Pure data mine