Is it on Donovan or Westbrook?

SpreeS · Post #1 » by **SpreeS** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:51 am

Why all these players have better/worse stats and efficiency?

Kanter (PG Jack and Ntilikina)

17 OKC: PER 23.7 TS 59.9%
18 NY: PER 24.0 TS 63.0%

McDermott (PG Jack, Ntilikina, Barea)

17 OKC: PER 9.3 TS 55.1%
18 NY/DAL: PER 10.4 TS 57.9%

Gibson (PG Teague)

17 OKC: PER 13.8 TS 52.8%
18 MIN: PER 15.5 TS 61.2%

Sabonis (PG Collinson and Joseph)

17 OKC: PER 6.9 TS 46.9%
18 IND: PER 17.4 TS 56.7%

Oladipo

17 OKC: PER 13.6 TS 53.4%
18 IND: PER 23.0 TS 57.7%

vice versa

George (PG Teague)

17 IND: PER 20.2 TS 58.7%
18 OKC: PER 18.4 TS 56.6%

Carmelo (PG Rose)

17 NY: PER 17.9 TS 53.5%
18 OKC: PER 12.8 TS 50.4%

Felton

17 LAC: PER 10.9 TS 49.6%
18 OKC: PER 13.0 TS 48.9%

Patterson (PG Lowry)

17 TOR: PER 10.8 TS 54.2%
18 OKC: PER 9.8 TS 54.8%

Only Felton has better PER in OKC and Patt has better TS +0.6%. All other players played with worse PG's and had better TS%. Also I couldnt say that Mcmillan, Rivers, Hornacek, Casey and Tibs have good offensive systems, where players boost their efficiency. These coachs arent on Pop's, Kerr's or Diantoni's level. I think this OKC team doesnt use all potential. So, is it on coach or on Wesbrook?

I made the thread title less incitive.
-Sammy

IgorK · Post #2 » by **IgorK** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:00 am

Take it easy, Kevin.

jonjames · Post #3 » by **jonjames** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:01 am

Russell Westbrick?

naabzor · Post #4 » by **naabzor** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:10 am

Both probably.

Dominator83 · Post #5 » by **Dominator83** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:26 am

I'm guessing russ. How many coaches can you blame? First it was Brooks, now Donovan. Though I will say Brooks is still dumb for being stubborn in 2012 finals and not benching Perkins

Saint_Killa · Post #6 » by **Saint_Killa** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:42 am

Cresy06 · Post #7 » by **Cresy06** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:02 am

I really love how Westbrook plays, the energy and all, but he needs to change his game if he wants to win, he needs to learn how to play without the ball in his hands.

Honestly, I think none of the 3 stars are any good without the Ball. Melo is a good spot up shooter (as he showcased with Team USA) but just doesn't have it this season. As a Pacers Fan I saw PG move decent without the Ball but he is so much more effective with the ball in his hands. Russell Westbrook must be the worst off-ball player of the 3.

But honestly it is also the OKC Management, how can you put 3 ball dominant players on one Team? CP3 and Harden works because both can move without the Ball and are great shooters and are surrounded by shooters. GSW works because Curry is very underrated without the Ball, uses screens very well, and even KD got a lot better at moving without the Ball. Also surrounded by shooters.

BigtimeNBAfan · Post #8 » by **BigtimeNBAfan** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:12 am

For a guy who is a triple double machine he doesn't make his teammates better. Quite a shocker in all reality. There is a reason Durant left and why Paul George will leave.

Eskobar13 · Post #9 » by **Eskobar13** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:13 am

The only ones actually relevant here are Sabonis and Oladipo.

Sabonis was a rookie being completely misused by the Thunder, something that's been talked about a lot in the nba media circles throughout the year.

Oladipo literally credited Westbrook for the transformation he went through in the OFF-SEASON that allowed him to become a much better player.

But yeah, **** Westbrook for ruining Carmelo Anthony lol

SpreeS · Post #10 » by **SpreeS** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:34 am

Eskobar13 wrote:The only ones actually relevant here are Sabonis and Oladipo.

Sabonis was a rookie being completely misused by the Thunder, something that's been talked about a lot in the nba media circles throughout the year.

Oladipo literally credited Westbrook for the transformation he went through in the OFF-SEASON that allowed him to become a much better player.

But yeah, **** Westbrook for ruining Carmelo Anthony lol

Also Ibaka, KD, Jackson, Fisher, Waiters, Augustin, Singler, Lamb had the worst TS% on OKC team!!! You could change players and coaches, but you will have the same results.

SamSepiol · Post #11 » by **SamSepiol** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:44 am

Westbrook be like

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Post #12 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:46 am

Why are the Paul George bench units without russ horrible? Why couldn’t Oladipo lead the bench units last year? Russ has his faults but these threads are made by uninformed posters.

BadWolf · Post #13 » by **BadWolf** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:54 am

Felton?
Let's leave the obvious weird selection on concentrate on how he leads second unit and doesn't play with Russ most of the time.

anish23 · Post #14 » by **anish23** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:56 am

Westbrook will NEVER win.

KayDee35 · Post #15 » by **KayDee35** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:57 am

Russ is similar to AI in that he's an aggressive scorer who puts a defense on its heels. When he's on, he's incredible and can take down any team. On a team with good defenders and rebounders that lacks scoring, Russ, like AI, is a perfect fit. However, his game does not bring the same benefits as the offensive caliber of the team goes up.

The vast majority of the problem lies with the coaching, however. A good coach would know when to corral and when to unleash Russ. So far, no coach has proven capable of doing that.

antonac · Post #16 » by **antonac** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:12 am

I think it's Donovan really.

don't get me wrong, Westbrook is a bad off-ball player, and goes to sleep on defense, he's a leader and he should be setting the tone.

I feel like Donovan tolerates him playing like this though as an effort to appease the poor situation he's in, I certainly feel that was the case last year. They shunned development and team basketball to compensate Westbrook for losing Durant. it was as if they said "look, we won't win anything, but we can probably get you the MVP.". that's the managements fault.

But in all honesty, this problem was in evidence before Durant left. OKC were one of the top teams in 15-16 but they were appalling down the stretch, (and the loss in the play-offs to GSW was an elongated example of this) Westbrook AND Durant constantly took over and played hero ball and came up short, not involving anyone else.

SpreeS · Post #17 » by **SpreeS** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:27 am

Knrstz wrote:Why are the Paul George bench units without russ horrible? Why couldn’t Oladipo lead the bench units last year? Russ has his faults but these threads are made by uninformed posters.

Westbrook unit w/o George 565 min

per 100 pos 110.2 - 109.2

Adams 371 min
Carmelo 348 min
Abrines 271 min
Grant 248 min
Roberson 221 min

George unit w/o Westbrook 547 min

per 100 pos 100.6 - 115.4

Felton 530 min
Grant 445 min
Patt 423 min
Abrines 229 min

Adams 123 min
Carmelo 66 min
Roberson 27 min

That is why!!! 3 best palyers play with Westbrook.

Post #18 » by **Slava** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:39 am

Royce Young, the OKC beat reporter, formerly a Thunder blogger was on the Lowe post to discuss OKC issues. He has a significant OKC bias but even he said Donovan plays a very good offensive system when the bench guys are in the game, the ball moves frequently and with purpose. However he said there's no way to coach Westbrook to do that. He sugarcoated it a fair bit by saying what makes Westbrook so great is also what makes him hard to coach.

Donovan isn't some lame ass coach even if he is serving as lightning rod for all of Westbrook centric issues. Hinkie was apparently enamored by him and spent quite a bit of time around UF when he was still coaching there.

Post #19 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:42 am

SpreeS wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Why are the Paul George bench units without russ horrible? Why couldn’t Oladipo lead the bench units last year? Russ has his faults but these threads are made by uninformed posters.

Westbrook unit w/o George 565 min

per 100 pos 110.2 - 109.2

Adams 371 min
Carmelo 348 min
Abrines 271 min
Grant 248 min
Roberson 221 min

George unit w/o Westbrook 547 min

per 100 pos 100.6 - 115.4

Felton 530 min
Grant 445 min
Patt 423 min
Abrines 229 min

Adams 123 min
Carmelo 66 min
Roberson 27 min

That is why!!! 3 best palyers play with Westbrook.

Yes bench lineups normally involve bench players. If George were with all of the starters, it wouldn’t be a bench lineup. Your argument supports its a lineup problem, not a Wesbrook one.

E-Balla · Post #20 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:56 am

Knrstz wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Why are the Paul George bench units without russ horrible? Why couldn’t Oladipo lead the bench units last year? Russ has his faults but these threads are made by uninformed posters.

Westbrook unit w/o George 565 min

per 100 pos 110.2 - 109.2

Adams 371 min
Carmelo 348 min
Abrines 271 min
Grant 248 min
Roberson 221 min

George unit w/o Westbrook 547 min

per 100 pos 100.6 - 115.4

Felton 530 min
Grant 445 min
Patt 423 min
Abrines 229 min

Adams 123 min
Carmelo 66 min
Roberson 27 min

That is why!!! 3 best palyers play with Westbrook.

Yes bench lineups normally involve bench players. If George were with all of the starters, it wouldn’t be a bench lineup. Your argument supports its a problem, not a Wesbrook one.

Exactly. Donovan already had his good bench lineup with Melo and he stopped using it because he's terrible. To the guy saying how many coaches are we going to blame - are we gonna act like Brooks isn't terrible?