Is it on Donovan or Westbrook?

[Pillendreher]

Royce Young, the OKC beat reporter, formerly a Thunder blogger was on the Lowe post to discuss OKC issues. He has a significant OKC bias but even he said Donovan plays a very good offensive system when the bench guys are in the game, the ball moves frequently and with purpose. However he said there's no way to coach Westbrook to do that. He sugarcoated it a fair bit by saying what makes Westbrook so great is also what makes him hard to coach.

Donovan isn't some lame ass coach even if he is serving as lightning rod for all of Westbrook centric issues. Hinkie was apparently enamored by him and spent quite a bit of time around UF when he was still coaching there.

Young was beyond cringeworthy on the Lowe Post. The only reason the bench passes more is because nobody in that unit can create a shot for other people. What they're doing is not a "system" - they just pass around the perimeter because there is NO system and they have nobody to carry the lineup offensively with shot creation.

[spicy6]

You really need to watch thunder games in general. The lineups donovan implents, the lack of a offense, the inconsistent switches on defense. KD was better with russ. Oladipo became a first option and improved. Kanter is starting of course his stats are going to increase. Same with reggie jackson. George is having arguably his best season he had to take on more of a defensive load when roberson fell. Melo just is diminsshed. Use actual relevancy. Use actual facts and stop criticizing what isnt there.

[sonictecture]

I've watched a lot of Russell Westbrook and the perceived good or bad typically has the same factors as it does for any other shot creator.

When Westbrook's teammates hit their shots, Westbrook plays relaxed, passes with greater consistency and puts more effort on the defensive end. His teams tend to not only win, but dominate. When Westbrook's teammates miss their shots, Westbrook looks to use his shot creating ability to carry the offense. Westbrook plays in tighter, passes inconsistently and puts less effort on the defensive end.

I've seen this from Lebron, Kobe, Harden and Durant as well. You can argue that any of the previously mentioned players is a better offensive player than Westbrook without argument from me, but they still have all struggled and failed when their teammates didn't hit their shots.

Does Westbrook believe in his teammates and want them to do well? I think the answer is yes.

Does Westbrook attempt to create makable shots for his teammates? I think the answer is yes.

A year ago LaMarcus Aldridge was on the trade block and was viewed as a malcontent that couldn't fit into Popovich's system that had two decades of proven success. Yet it was Popovich who came out and stated that he was at fault. That he wasn't using Aldridge correctly. Great coaching isn't the ability to strong arm players into a system you've developed but to develop a system that works best for the players. This typically starts with your best players. Role players support the best players and the system.

Donovan never tried to make Westbrook fit into a system that wasn't designed for him. He has never lost the support of Westbrook or his teammates and the team has always played hard for him.

Whose fault is it that Donovan or Westbrook have not met personal expectations of fans? Neither. Their success is jointly earned and their failures are shared.

[Antinomy]

I think most of it comes due to lack of consistency. It’s hard to win when there’s no offensive gameplan. I can’t blame Russ for guys missing wide open shots.

But when guys like Kanter, Gibson & McDermott, who were getting benched last year, are having better seasons, it even further proves it’s Donovan.

Oladipo just was not playing well last season. And had ample opportunity to do so. And it seems like PG & Melo are extremely streaky.

I think the biggest indictment on Donovan is the fact that they barely improved offensively from last season despite having better players & a career year from Adams.

I’ve seen too many Jerami Grant & Raymond Felton ISO’s this year.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

Taj Gibson actually played for OKC? I feel like that never happened.

[Thundershock88]

Taj Gibson actually played for OKC? I feel like that never happened.

Because he didn't play enough. Despite him being one of the only net positives, Donovan only gave him about 20 minutes a game.

[Smitson]

Royce Young, the OKC beat reporter, formerly a Thunder blogger was on the Lowe post to discuss OKC issues. He has a significant OKC bias but even he said Donovan plays a very good offensive system when the bench guys are in the game, the ball moves frequently and with purpose. However he said there's no way to coach Westbrook to do that. He sugarcoated it a fair bit by saying what makes Westbrook so great is also what makes him hard to coach.

Donovan isn't some lame ass coach even if he is serving as lightning rod for all of Westbrook centric issues. Hinkie was apparently enamored by him and spent quite a bit of time around UF when he was still coaching there.

Even KD’s burner account put Donovan on blast and not Russ. Donovan isn’t a good NBA head coach.

[sonictecture]

Royce Young, the OKC beat reporter, formerly a Thunder blogger was on the Lowe post to discuss OKC issues. He has a significant OKC bias but even he said Donovan plays a very good offensive system when the bench guys are in the game, the ball moves frequently and with purpose. However he said there's no way to coach Westbrook to do that. He sugarcoated it a fair bit by saying what makes Westbrook so great is also what makes him hard to coach.

Donovan isn't some lame ass coach even if he is serving as lightning rod for all of Westbrook centric issues. Hinkie was apparently enamored by him and spent quite a bit of time around UF when he was still coaching there.

Even KD’s burner account put Donovan on blast and not Russ. Donovan isn’t a good NBA head coach.

Is KD's burner account a reputable source?

Are you one of the Raptor fans that has had Dwayne Casey on blast until this season?

[Smitson]

Royce Young, the OKC beat reporter, formerly a Thunder blogger was on the Lowe post to discuss OKC issues. He has a significant OKC bias but even he said Donovan plays a very good offensive system when the bench guys are in the game, the ball moves frequently and with purpose. However he said there's no way to coach Westbrook to do that. He sugarcoated it a fair bit by saying what makes Westbrook so great is also what makes him hard to coach.

Donovan isn't some lame ass coach even if he is serving as lightning rod for all of Westbrook centric issues. Hinkie was apparently enamored by him and spent quite a bit of time around UF when he was still coaching there.

Even KD’s burner account put Donovan on blast and not Russ. Donovan isn’t a good NBA head coach.

Is KD's burner account a reputable source?

Are you one of the Raptor fans that has had Dwayne Casey on blast until this season?

Nope, Ive found the Casey hate to be nonsensical considering the Raps have gotten great productions out of guys who’ve done nothing anywhere else (Big Bizness for example) and KD saying Billy Donovan isn’t a good coach goes a long ways in my mind.

[sonictecture]

Even KD’s burner account put Donovan on blast and not Russ. Donovan isn’t a good NBA head coach.

Is KD's burner account a reputable source?

Are you one of the Raptor fans that has had Dwayne Casey on blast until this season?

Nope, Ive found the Casey hate to be nonsensical considering the Raps have gotten great productions out of guys who’ve done nothing anywhere else (Big Bizness for example) and KD saying Billy Donovan isn’t a good coach goes a long ways in my mind.

KD has never stated that, but even if he did I would take it with a grain of salt compared to the people in college and the nba who respect Donovan.

[Pillendreher]

Westbrook unit w/o George 565 min

per 100 pos 110.2 - 109.2

Adams 371 min
Carmelo 348 min
Abrines 271 min
Grant 248 min
Roberson 221 min

George unit w/o Westbrook 547 min

per 100 pos 100.6 - 115.4

Felton 530 min
Grant 445 min
Patt 423 min
Abrines 229 min

Adams 123 min
Carmelo 66 min
Roberson 27 min

That is why!!! 3 best palyers play with Westbrook.

Yes bench lineups normally involve bench players. If George were with all of the starters, it wouldn’t be a bench lineup. Your argument supports its a problem, not a Wesbrook one.

Can Westbrook lead this bench?

Westbrook with this bench unit (Felton, Grant and Patt 118 min) f...ed too.

per 100 pos 104.3 - 110.9

Also George with Adams (w/o Westbrook 143 min) play well

per 100 pos 110.9 - 109.8

At least use the proper splits, even if they don't support your narrative:

Westbrook ON, Anthony OFF, George OFF:

226 minutes, +8.2 NetRtG

George ON, Westbrook OFF, Anthony OFF:

489 minutes, -13.1 NetRtG

Russell Westbrook IS the Thunder's offense. Last 3 seasons per nbawowy:

Westbrook ON: 114.5 ORtG
Westbrook OFF: 104.5 ORtG

9235 minutes ON, 3615 minutes OFF.

[Pillendreher]

and the team has always played hard for him.

That's not true. One of Donovan's biggest flaws is not being able to motivate the team consistently. It's not a coincidence that this whole 'They play well for 1-2 weeks, then like crap for a couple of games, then like mediocre team for two weeks' bs started when he took over.

[FlatearthZorro]

Westbrook will NEVER win.

He'll probably be a paper tiger his whole career unless ha makes some adjustments. Still a fantastic athlete and competitor. Who knows maybe I'm wrong and they will make some noise this year.

[anthony00]

its not westbrook

[slick_watts]

all of the above.

westbrook is a difficult player to build around for someone of his stature. not being able to shoot and playing no defense means he needs specific players around him. the thunder had it this year with the starters until andre roberson was hurt.

billy donovan is a mouthpiece for sam presti. the thunder had a player friendly coach in scott brooks and they found the one guy out there who may have been even more so. it's clear what they wanted, and it's clear what the priorities were.

donovan is not a strong enough nba personality to impose his vision on these players. his first season he tried a different pnr defense and had to abandon it. he designs plays at the end of the game, westbrook fires a three, and donovan admits that's not what was designed but westbrook 'had the shot' or something like that.

we have a star who wants to do things his way and a coach who is too much of a milquetoast to change anything. players who come to / leave the thunder find more flexibility elsewhere, and usually find roles that are better for their skillsets.

[Pillendreher]

donovan is not a strong enough nba personality to impose his vision on these players.

We've seen his 'vision' for three full seasons.

[sonictecture]

and the team has always played hard for him.

That's not true. One of Donovan's biggest flaws is not being able to motivate the team consistently. It's not a coincidence that this whole 'They play well for 1-2 weeks, then like crap for a couple of games, then like mediocre team for two weeks' bs started when he took over.

So in your mind mediocre results are coming from players playing hard, not playing hard and then returning to play hard?