Political Roundtable Part XIX

Pointgod · Post #1501 » by **Pointgod** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:37 pm

So this is the very stable genius that **** Carlson seems fit to kiss his ass.

This is what he was saying just a couple years ago:

This is why you don't give people like **** Carlson or Trump any credit for any of their self serving takes. You just end up looking like a fool less than 48 hours later.

FAH1223 · Post #1502 » by **FAH1223** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I didn't listen to Carlson, but what in the blue hell is Trump doing with Syria? And if he's doing a complete 180 with Russia, why is he doing... a complete 180 with Russia? Something's not right, and I'm afraid it's going to literally blow up in our faces. Even aside from the fact that our President couldn't pass a 7th grade English class without having his lawyer pay someone off, we have a petulant child for a President who likely will at some point get us in unnecessary war(s).

And Ryan all of a sudden looking to escape the monkey house...

Trumps tweats on Russia this morning are unbelievable. How does he go from best buds with Putin to hating Russia in under 5 seconds?

He was never best buds with Putin. That's the big flaw in this whole Russia Russia Russia conspiracy theory.

Also, these tweets are just bluster. They're the same thing he did with Kim Jong-un. He's trying to appear unstable enough to be capable of anything. It's a negotiating tactic to give him more leverage. He does this all the time and still people don't get it.

Trump won't be launching smart missiles at Russia.

Most probable outcome - The strike will come soon. It will be from the sea again. It will be broader than last time when one single airport was struck. But, it will not be a game changer. The Syrians and Russians will probably intercept and/or shoot down some but not all.

gtn130 · Post #1503 » by **gtn130** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:38 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Pulling out of Iraq was a mistake because it evidently left a massive power vacuum allowing ISIS to seize control. it was largely an environment we created by invading in the first place.

The situation in Syria is different for a variety of reasons, but generally speaking i think there is no viable way out of these military endeavors in the middle east.

Cutting off all US military presence in Syria does benefit Russia and Assad though

Yep - two equally stupid mistakes. Invading Iraq based upon nebulas intel of WOMD.

And to follow that pulling out prematurely - we should have learned from WWI.

So, gtn - should Trump pull out of Syria? Iraq? Afghanistan? The middle east? Can we get our of Europe? Should we stop being the world's policeman and withdraw to the US?

I'm obviously very strongly anti-involvement in all of these international military conflicts, and we should absolutely not be the world police or the moral compass for all of humanity. But we're already in these countries and it's the reality we live in.

I don't think there is a scenario in which we can pull out of all these places primarily because of how we saw things unfold in Iraq. It's why Obama turned to things like drone strikes - because it allows us to manage and contain things from afar with relatively minimal involvement. I'm not defending drone strikes or saying it's an ethical solution - it's not even a solution - but I can see the reasoning behind it.

I think the best (of what are all bad options) is to maintain the status quo and hope some of these countries can cobble together self-sustaining and stable governments - something that is sadly not on the horizon.

Post #1504 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm

Our President uses the term "Gas Killing Animal". That leads me to use the term "We're f'd".

FAH1223 · Post #1505 » by **FAH1223** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:40 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #1506 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:If it was a big deal, the Obama justice dept should have said so back in sept-oct 2016. Why didn't the obama DOJ charge donald trump with a crime???? why did they willfully hand over the office of the presidency???? why did Obama say "its impossible to meddle in our elections" Why did Obama say Trump won fair and square??????

What...do you think is happening right now?

The Trump campaign has been under federal investigation since 2016 for collaborating with foreign powers to influence an American election.

Democratic and Republican appointees have continued this investigation to this very day.

Trump's personal attorney had his offices raided this week.

You're sitting in front of the most monumental story in decades.

You have to pay attention, man.

Post #1507 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:47 pm

nate33 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe that people are upset about this. This was clearly a joke, a very funny one. I LOL'd when I first heard it.

Are you kidding me? This is a guy who jokes about raping women. NOTHING HE SAYS IS FUNNY. He's a miserable fat ugly rapist slob.

Dude, you're unhinged.

LOL, that's the practiced answer from you people whenever someone steps up - you're unhinged, you're hysterical - no matter what the moron in chief says or does. Induveca was ahead of the curve using that strategy.

Post #1508 » by **nate33** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:55 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe that people are upset about this. This was clearly a joke, a very funny one. I LOL'd when I first heard it.

it WASN'T A JOKE.

There is a federal investigation into this very matter.

And conspiring with a foreign entity to influence an American election is...bad. Terrible?

The most consequential betrayal in US History?

(If Iran had helped elect Obama, can you honestly say it would be no big deal?)

Nunes has been demanding that the FBI turn over the document that launched the bureau's 2016 Russia investigation. Republicans have seen a redacted version of the document, which indicates the probe began as a result of a Trump campaign aide, George Papadopoulos, telling an Australian diplomat that Russia had dirt on Hillary Clinton.
Politico

I'm saying the crack about Russia turning over the Clinton emails was a joke. Do you really think that if Trump was actually colluding with Russia on the emails, he would openly direct them to release the emails with an audience of millions watching? Are you that far down the rabbit hole?

gtn130 · Post #1509 » by **gtn130** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:55 pm

nate33 wrote:I still can't believe that people are upset about this. This was clearly a joke, a very funny one. I LOL'd when I first heard it.

Uh, how was this 'clearly a joke' considering the timing of events? And if it is a joke, why would it surprise you that people are upset about it?

June 3, 2016: Donald Trump Jr., “if it’s what you say I love it”
June 9, 2016: Trump Tower meeting (attended by Trump Jr., Manafort, and Kushner)
July 18, 2016: Trump’s platform drops pro-Ukrainian language
July 22, 2016: Wikileaks publishes first round of Clinton emails
July 27, 2016: "Russia, if you're listening..."
August 21, 2016: Roger Stone tweets, "Trust me, it will soon the Podesta's time in the barrel"

Why would anyone even remotely impartial disregard that statement from Trump or conclude he was joking? Or not be bothered by it considering the context that is now publicly available?

cammac · Post #1510 » by **cammac** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:57 pm

The SDNY might not handle the Cohen case but well might be handed over to Eric Schneiderman at the State level. It would be devastating to Trump since no executive privilege and Trump can't pardon anyone.

What are federal crimes?

There are many federal crimes. Some federal crimes involve narcotics, bank robbery, fraudulent activity that affects interstate commerce, wire fraud, mail fraud or tax fraud, any crime in which the United States is defrauded, guns, environmental crimes, and civil rights violations. Some crimes may violate both state and federal laws, such as bank robbery. In these cases, the local U.S. Attorney's Office works closely with state and local law enforcement officials to determine whether a case will be brought in federal or state court.

Post #1511 » by **nate33** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:58 pm

gtn130 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe that people are upset about this. This was clearly a joke, a very funny one. I LOL'd when I first heard it.

Uh, how was this 'clearly a joke' considering the timing of events? And if it is a joke, why would it surprise you that people are upset about it?

June 3, 2016: Donald Trump Jr., “if it’s what you say I love it”
June 9, 2016: Trump Tower meeting (attended by Trump Jr., Manafort, and Kushner)
July 18, 2016: Trump’s platform drops pro-Ukrainian language
July 22, 2016: Wikileaks publishes first round of Clinton emails
July 27, 2016: "Russia, if you're listening..."
August 21, 2016: Roger Stone tweets, "Trust me, it will soon the Podesta's time in the barrel"

Why would anyone even remotely impartial disregard that statement from Trump or conclude he was joking? Or not be bothered by it considering the context that is now publicly available?

Because I'm applying common sense.

If Trump really was colluding with Russia, why would he inform the whole world about it? Why not make a secret call to his good buddy Putin and have him release the emails. Also, the 33,000 stolen emails to which Trump was referring were never released by Wikileaks, Russia or anybody else. If Trump was working with the Russians, he would know that they didn't have those emails.

gtn130 · Post #1512 » by **gtn130** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:59 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm saying the crack about Russia turning over the Clinton emails was a joke. Do you really think that if Trump was actually colluding with Russia on the emails, he would openly direct them to release the emails with an audience of millions watching? Are you that far down the rabbit hole?

Uhhhh, they've all been doing this stuff right out in the open.

gtn130 · Post #1513 » by **gtn130** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:02 pm

nate33 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe that people are upset about this. This was clearly a joke, a very funny one. I LOL'd when I first heard it.

Uh, how was this 'clearly a joke' considering the timing of events? And if it is a joke, why would it surprise you that people are upset about it?

June 3, 2016: Donald Trump Jr., “if it’s what you say I love it”
June 9, 2016: Trump Tower meeting (attended by Trump Jr., Manafort, and Kushner)
July 18, 2016: Trump’s platform drops pro-Ukrainian language
July 22, 2016: Wikileaks publishes first round of Clinton emails
July 27, 2016: "Russia, if you're listening..."
August 21, 2016: Roger Stone tweets, "Trust me, it will soon the Podesta's time in the barrel"

Why would anyone even remotely impartial disregard that statement from Trump or conclude he was joking? Or not be bothered by it considering the context that is now publicly available?

Because I'm applying common sense.

If Trump really was colluding with Russia, why would he inform the whole world about it? Why not make a secret call to his good buddy Putin and have him release the emails. Also, the 33,000 stolen emails to which Trump was referring were never released by Wikileaks, Russia or anybody else. If Trump was working with the Russians, he would know that they didn't have those emails.

1. He didn't inform the whole world about it. He asked for Russia's help in a vague *wink wink* sort of way that gives him plausible deniability.

2. He's not going call up Putin because he literally can't.

3. If he could somehow call Putin, it would expose him to far more risk and would leave an obvious paper trail.

Post #1514 » by **nate33** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Okay, so Trump has this elaborate collusion scheme with Putin, but he has no way of communicating with him via backchannels? How do you collude with someone without communicating about it? It's practically the definition of collusion.

Post #1515 » by **nate33** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #1516 » by **nate33** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:17 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #1517 » by **nate33** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:19 pm

Read on Twitter

closg00 · Post #1518 » by **closg00** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:20 pm

nate33 wrote:

Read on Twitter

In a strange twist, Trump is finally calling-out Russia/Putin, perhaps he has no Phucks to give now

I_Like_Dirt · Post #1519 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:21 pm

Yeah, I think you're both wrong here.

Trump puts on a show because that's what he does. I don't think that tweet was a joke or some sort of secret communication hidden in plain sight. Trump puts on a show because it gets people to ignore everything else he does and lump it all in with the show. I don't really see how anyone could come away with any other conclusion but that, to be honest, though clearly people are, because we see 2 different takes right here in this thread.

Frankly, I have a hard time believing any legitimately reasonable person is being honest if they try to claim that Trump doesn't have some sort of sketchy at best connections with Putin at this point that probably work against American interests in some significant way(s). But I also don't think all the stories and stuff made about tweets and such is going to factor into things at all when Mueller is done. Honestly, a lot of Mueller's actions tends to come as a surprise to large portions of supporters of both sides. It's the money, not the tweets.

cammac · Post #1520 » by **cammac** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:21 pm

nate33 wrote:Okay, so Trump has this elaborate collusion scheme with Putin, but he has no way of communicating with him via backchannels? How do you collude with someone without communicating about it? It's practically the definition of collusion.

Does Jeff Sessions, Jarad Kushner, Paul Manafort, Don Jr., Mike Flynn, Rick Gates, George Papadopoulos and Rodger Stone ring any bells?