4/11 - 7PM CST | G82: Memphis Grizzlies at Oklahoma City Thunder

[Atomic Punk]

Excuse me?

Have you been on that island as well?

Yep. I didn’t attend the town hall meetings though

Town hall? I don’t think we have enough for a quorum let alone a town hall.

[spearsy23]

i think i see what you are implying. that even if i could show that westbrook's defensive rebound hunting harms the defense, it's offset by its benefits to the offense?

I'd have to look for the stars but I believe there was a non insignificant increase in offensive output after a Westbrook rebound. I would like to see your numbers defensively though, I'm mostly interested in how you quantified the amount he was 'hunting' for rebounds though.

charting. watching plays. i think i did two month's worth of opponent shot attempts with westbrook in the game. it's not exhaustive. but illustrative.

What was your criteria for hunting vs not hunting, how did you differentiate hunting from his normal falling asleep, did you adjust for plays where hunting had no effect on the outcome? I don't know that I believe a rigorous analysis is possible, especially since you can't necessarily even tell intent

[Dn4sty]

good article on the shaq-robinson thing: https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/3/16965786/shaq-david-robinson-beef-history-magic-lakers-spurs-71-points

and you really want proof that westbrook makes the defense worse by chasing defensive rebounds? seriously? lets put it this way: how often does it help.

How about you put the burden of proof on yourself? It’s silly to make a claim or take a certain position and then ask someone else to verify it for you.

it's a very obvious thing, defensively. everyone sees how often westbrook leaves his man to chase defensive rebounds. not every time, but often enough to be noticeable. which is why there's less research on that and a whole lot more on the offensive side which was how the thunder were justifying his going after them.

i have some research on the effect on the defense, but like i said it was never really a hot button issue in the triple double discussion since it was taken for granted as harmful to some degree.

The issue I have is that your position is one of extreme. Of course hunting rebounds hurts at times, but to drive the narrative to the point that you have seems over the top excessive. When you couple that with the timing of such posts, this is what you get.

I mean this happened tonight as a result of what you would call a hunt

Read on Twitter

?s=21

If Russ doesn’t get that board, I seriously doubt that this play happens.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. However it would seem like you only see rebounding hunting as a negative and you make sure to let us know a lot. A whole lot.

[slick_watts]

And what about your analysis of the Zapruder film? What does that tell you?

truth alone is worthy of our entire devotion

Dinner with you would be awesome.

[spearsy23]

I'd have to look for the stars but I believe there was a non insignificant increase in offensive output after a Westbrook rebound. I would like to see your numbers defensively though, I'm mostly interested in how you quantified the amount he was 'hunting' for rebounds though.

charting. watching plays. i think i did two month's worth of opponent shot attempts with westbrook in the game. it's not exhaustive. but illustrative.

Do you ever just watch the game? You know, for fun?

Are you implying in depth analysis can't be fun? I don't have as much time for it now that I have other priorities, but I've derived significant pleasure from it in the past. I don't think it's appropriate to assume the way you or I enjoy our hobbies is the correct way.

[spearsy23]

How about you put the burden of proof on yourself? It’s silly to make a claim or take a certain position and then ask someone else to verify it for you.

it's a very obvious thing, defensively. everyone sees how often westbrook leaves his man to chase defensive rebounds. not every time, but often enough to be noticeable. which is why there's less research on that and a whole lot more on the offensive side which was how the thunder were justifying his going after them.

i have some research on the effect on the defense, but like i said it was never really a hot button issue in the triple double discussion since it was taken for granted as harmful to some degree.

The issue I have is that your position is one of extreme. Of course hunting rebounds hurts at times, but to drive the narrative to the point that you have seems over the top excessive. When you couple that with the timing of such posts, this is what you get.

I mean this happened tonight as a result of what you would call a hunt

Read on Twitter

?s=21

If Russ doesn’t get that board, I seriously doubt that this play happens.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. However it would seem like you only see rebounding hunting as a negative and you make sure to let us know a lot. A whole lot.

I wouldn't consider that hunting a rebound. Foot in the paint is proper help side positioning.

[Atomic Punk]

charting. watching plays. i think i did two month's worth of opponent shot attempts with westbrook in the game. it's not exhaustive. but illustrative.

Do you ever just watch the game? You know, for fun?

Are you implying in depth analysis can't be fun? I don't have as much time for it now that I have other priorities, but I've derived significant pleasure from it in the past. I don't think it's appropriate to assume the way you or I enjoy our hobbies is the correct way.

Not at all. Sometime I just want to watch a game and enjoy it for the pure pleasure of seeing elite athletes compete at a high level.

[Atomic Punk]

And what about your analysis of the Zapruder film? What does that tell you?

truth alone is worthy of our entire devotion

Who’s truth?

Dinner with you would be awesome.

I’m buying.

[slick_watts]

I'd have to look for the stars but I believe there was a non insignificant increase in offensive output after a Westbrook rebound. I would like to see your numbers defensively though, I'm mostly interested in how you quantified the amount he was 'hunting' for rebounds though.

charting. watching plays. i think i did two month's worth of opponent shot attempts with westbrook in the game. it's not exhaustive. but illustrative.

What was your criteria for hunting vs not hunting, how did you differentiate hunting from his normal falling asleep, did you adjust for plays where hunting had no effect on the outcome? I don't know that I believe a rigorous analysis is possible, especially since you can't necessarily even tell intent

i flagged him when he had his back turned to the offense and he was below the foul line extended waiting for a shot attempt. obviously, there's no way to rigorously test for intent.

on the plays i flagged i made a note of opponent efg%, opponent pp100, and westbrook drb%. efg% was higher, especially 3pt%. on a side note, westbrook in the game without andre roberson and we are giving up 38%+ from three. westbrook's defensive rebounding has also climbed while that has. his lapses are far more noticeable now. maybe i'll do it again.

this was really a side thing, since i feel this conclusion can be reasonably thought out without rigorous study. since westbrook getting uncontested defensive rebounds and gunning for defensive rebounds is rarely helping the defense, any amount of harm is going to result in defensive harm. and we all know it harms it sometimes. how much is the difficult part to say.

[slick_watts]

I wouldn't consider that hunting a rebound. Foot in the paint is proper help side positioning.

yes. westbrook's man is in the opposite corner here. this isn't a problem.

[Atomic Punk]

And what about your analysis of the Zapruder film? What does that tell you?

truth alone is worthy of our entire devotion

Who’s truth?

Dinner with you would be awesome.

I’m buying.

Was that a Jim Garrison quote?

[bwgood77]

a shameful display. westbrook is the most egregious stat padder in the nba since wilt. it was fun last year but this was just sorry. if i was a memphis player i'd have clocked westbrook for showing them up.

there should be an asterisk next to westbrook's achievement with the number of uncontested defensive rebounds per game next to it.

And there it is. You have fully exposed yourself as nothing more than a hater. A bitter POS who attempts to claim the intellectual high ground while pissing all over any good thing that happens with this team. Go **** yourself ****.

Go ahead and ban me Andre.

Just ignore him if you disagree and don't want to get banned. But no need to start breaking rules. Westbrook may like stats, but most players want to get as many rebounds and assists as they can. It's better than having a guy who just wants to score all the time, which he's been accused of too. Hard to argue he does both.

[Atomic Punk]

a shameful display. westbrook is the most egregious stat padder in the nba since wilt. it was fun last year but this was just sorry. if i was a memphis player i'd have clocked westbrook for showing them up.

there should be an asterisk next to westbrook's achievement with the number of uncontested defensive rebounds per game next to it.

And there it is. You have fully exposed yourself as nothing more than a hater. A bitter POS who attempts to claim the intellectual high ground while pissing all over any good thing that happens with this team. Go **** yourself ****.

Go ahead and ban me Andre.

Just ignore him if you disagree and don't want to get banned. But no need to start breaking rules. Westbrook may like stats, but most players want to get as many rebounds and assists as they can. It's better than having a guy who just wants to score all the time, which he's been accused of too. Hard to argue he does both.

Fair enough. Thank you.

[Andre Roberstan]

a shameful display. westbrook is the most egregious stat padder in the nba since wilt. it was fun last year but this was just sorry. if i was a memphis player i'd have clocked westbrook for showing them up.

there should be an asterisk next to westbrook's achievement with the number of uncontested defensive rebounds per game next to it.

And there it is. You have fully exposed yourself as nothing more than a hater. A bitter POS who attempts to claim the intellectual high ground while pissing all over any good thing that happens with this team. Go **** yourself ****.

Go ahead and ban me Andre.

Just ignore him if you disagree and don't want to get banned. But no need to start breaking rules. Westbrook may like stats, but most players want to get as many rebounds and assists as they can. It's better than having a guy who just wants to score all the time, which he's been accused of too. Hard to argue he does both.

I'm away for a couple of hours and y'all melt down on me. C'mon, guys.

slick is entitled to his opinion, even if you think it sucks. I disagree (vehemently!) with HASG13 and sleestak, but they're free to post their ideas still, just as you are free to disagree with them.

If we can't have a free and open exchange of ideas about the team that we're all ostensibly fans of (yes, slick is still a fan...I've been around him on forums for years now) then why are we here?

AP, I probably SHOULD warn you. There are reasonable arguments to be made against slick's position. If he bothers you that much put him on ignore and don't resort to ad hominem. (And slick, don't keep poking him—you've been around for ages, you know the drill. Report and move on.)

You've been a good poster and this is uncharacteristic. Official warning and 12-hour is cocked. Don't make me use it, please.

And for what it's worth, I generally agree with slick that it was obvious stat padding. Still a cool achievement, and I don't care. (although I have a sneaking suspicion he may not be recognizing the weak side player two-nining the paint, which is regular help technique)

[spearsy23]

And for what it's worth, I generally agree with slick that it was obvious stat padding. Still a cool achievement, and I don't care.

Every NBA player stay pads, that's the way it's always going to be when you get money and recognition based off your stats. The disagreement is to rather or not it's an egregious offense and hurting the team. That position is weakened when you pretend it's somehow different than other players that have done the same thing, and there's been several in these last game of the season scenarios.

[Andre Roberstan]

And for what it's worth, I generally agree with slick that it was obvious stat padding. Still a cool achievement, and I don't care.

Every NBA player stay pads, that's the way it's always going to be when you get money and recognition based off your stats. The disagreement is to rather or not it's an egregious offense and hurting the team. That position is weakened when you pretend it's somehow different than other players that have done the same thing, and there's been several in these last game of the season scenarios.

Yeah, they do. Klay coming in down 40 was an obvious one. Antonio Daniels and the Dream Team crew had an interesting discussion today on it.

[bondom34]

And for what it's worth, I generally agree with slick that it was obvious stat padding. Still a cool achievement, and I don't care.

Every NBA player stay pads, that's the way it's always going to be when you get money and recognition based off your stats. The disagreement is to rather or not it's an egregious offense and hurting the team. That position is weakened when you pretend it's somehow different than other players that have done the same thing, and there's been several in these last game of the season scenarios.

Yeah, they do. Klay coming in down 40 was an obvious one. Antonio Daniels and the Dream Team crew had an interesting discussion today on it.

Lebron, literally tonight lol.

[hardenASG13]

And there it is. You have fully exposed yourself as nothing more than a hater. A bitter POS who attempts to claim the intellectual high ground while pissing all over any good thing that happens with this team. Go **** yourself ****.

Go ahead and ban me Andre.

Just ignore him if you disagree and don't want to get banned. But no need to start breaking rules. Westbrook may like stats, but most players want to get as many rebounds and assists as they can. It's better than having a guy who just wants to score all the time, which he's been accused of too. Hard to argue he does both.

I'm away for a couple of hours and y'all melt down on me. C'mon, guys.

slick is entitled to his opinion, even if you think it sucks. I disagree (vehemently!) with HASG13 and sleestak, but they're free to post their ideas still, just as you are free to disagree with them.

If we can't have a free and open exchange of ideas about the team that we're all ostensibly fans of (yes, slick is still a fan...I've been around him on forums for years now) then why are we here?

AP, I probably SHOULD warn you. There are reasonable arguments to be made against slick's position. If he bothers you that much put him on ignore and don't resort to ad hominem. (And slick, don't keep poking him—you've been around for ages, you know the drill. Report and move on.)

You've been a good poster and this is uncharacteristic. Official warning and 12-hour is cocked. Don't make me use it, please.

And for what it's worth, I generally agree with slick that it was obvious stat padding. Still a cool achievement, and I don't care. (although I have a sneaking suspicion he may not be recognizing the weak side player two-nining the paint, which is regular help technique)

Of course you/ others don't agree with me......ive thought the thunder were built for the Playoffs all year, which is uncool on here. Negativity and over reaction is where it's at! Seriously if you guys expect a billy Donovan coached team to bring consistent effort and accountability every night in the RS I feel bad for you, or you must all be wide eyed 10 year olds. They walk all over him, don't fear him at all. They do whatever they want, and the difference vs. Good teams was always there. Learn how this NBA thing works.

As an aside, the fact that some of you have put me on ignore, because my opinions don't agree with yours, is beyond pathetic! GO THUNDER!

[CROklahoma]

LOL at the mods.

So, Russell should have gone reboundless the whole game, just so he quits the so called "statpadding" narative forced by the haters who always make up stuff his whole carrer. First it was brainlessness, then it was selfishness, then it was egoism, now hes a statpadder, what is next ?

Maybe he should just stop using his athleticism, his sight, his vision, just so any of the posters on forums, the media, can put him in any box they invisioned him to be in.

What a bunch of unaware pricks.

The whole league of players is "stat padding", if someone can't notice that, then he clearly doesn't really have a clue what playing basketball means. Neither has touched the ball at any time. If u are hot shooting, you will go to stat pad your shots and points, if u feel you are hot facilitating, you're gonna force your passes and stat pad the assists, if you feel no one can out jump you, you're gonna fly the sky and grab whole lot of rebounds.



Thats what you do if you have any kind of fierce while you play in any type of game, be it pickup, be it streetball, be it 5v5 ...

[bondom34]

Just ignore him if you disagree and don't want to get banned. But no need to start breaking rules. Westbrook may like stats, but most players want to get as many rebounds and assists as they can. It's better than having a guy who just wants to score all the time, which he's been accused of too. Hard to argue he does both.

I'm away for a couple of hours and y'all melt down on me. C'mon, guys.

slick is entitled to his opinion, even if you think it sucks. I disagree (vehemently!) with HASG13 and sleestak, but they're free to post their ideas still, just as you are free to disagree with them.

If we can't have a free and open exchange of ideas about the team that we're all ostensibly fans of (yes, slick is still a fan...I've been around him on forums for years now) then why are we here?

AP, I probably SHOULD warn you. There are reasonable arguments to be made against slick's position. If he bothers you that much put him on ignore and don't resort to ad hominem. (And slick, don't keep poking him—you've been around for ages, you know the drill. Report and move on.)

You've been a good poster and this is uncharacteristic. Official warning and 12-hour is cocked. Don't make me use it, please.

And for what it's worth, I generally agree with slick that it was obvious stat padding. Still a cool achievement, and I don't care. (although I have a sneaking suspicion he may not be recognizing the weak side player two-nining the paint, which is regular help technique)

Of course you/ others don't agree with me......ive thought the thunder were built for the Playoffs all year, which is uncool on here. Negativity and over reaction is where it's at! Seriously if you guys expect a billy Donovan coached team to bring consistent effort and accountability every night in the RS I feel bad for you, or you must all be wide eyed 10 year olds. They walk all over him, don't fear him at all. They do whatever they want, and the difference vs. Good teams was always there. Learn how this NBA thing works.

As an aside, the fact that some of you have put me on ignore, because my opinions don't agree with yours, is beyond pathetic! GO THUNDER!

I don't think everyone here is terribly negative, though some are. You can be critical and not think they're a great team while still being positive of what they are good at.

In the end they finished pretty close to where I figured and were missing 30 games of Dre. Tjats pretty darn good. Now here's to a good playoffs.