Gortat has been the problem

[barelyawake]

Have you gone back and done the “what if” on Gortat? Okafor goes down. We roll into the season with Nene at center (a Nene about to expire). And we don’t give that pick. And we don’t give that cap. And we tank (or even if we don’t). If we tank, it’s Embiid. If we don’t, if we do well, we draft Jokic or Clint. Plus we have Nene expiring. Picture how close we were to being the IT team with Durant, Bosh, Aldridge, LeBron, Marc Gasol etc on deck about to pick the team they wanted to join.

I’ve long said, Gortat was our original sin.

Who started the Wall fight? Who has kept the Wall fight going (which killed the morale of a team that should be rolling through these playoffs). Who can’t get the refs’ whistles in the playoffs? Who can’t defend the rim and manages to bumble Wall’s pinpoint passes every fifth play (now more)? Who can’t seem to collect himself in the paint and often just launches shots near the rim, that could be dunked by half the leagues’ starting big men?

That’s where it began. Not Okriza. And it was obvious to anyone who accepts the principles that a pass first point needs a star in the paint; playoffs are won by star calls under the basket; and teams with a guard as a star need a big as at least a co-leader (as Nene was during our best days).

[Wiz99]

Uhm.... no.

If you’re successfully making an argument for anything, it’s Ernie is a **** GM.

[barelyawake]

Uhm.... no.

If you’re successfully making an argument for anything, it’s Ernie is a **** GM.

Let’s break this down. Ummm... no. It’s a post from a fourteen year old girl on Snapchat trying to be sarcastic.

Then, you say Ernie is an awful GM, but apparently you are backing his trade for Gortat that stopped us from getting Embiid, Clint or Jokic? It’s hard to tell, because your post doesn’t really say much.

[dckingsfan]

Or, if EG hadn't gone after Nicholson, Mahimni and Smith we would have been in a better position as well.

Okriza

Gortat

Nicholson, Mahimni and Smith

Pretty soon you have a pattern

[truwizfan4evr]

Gortat the issue to all our problem? And all this time I thought it was Ernie and brooks.

[barelyawake]

Gortat the issue to all our problem? And all this time I thought it was Ernie and brooks.

Again, who traded for Gortat? I’m unsure why people who hate EG wouldn’t agree waiting a year and drafting Clint, Embiid or Jokic wouldn’t have made us one of the formidable teams in the league (because of course it would have).

[Ruzious]

But EG was so good at losing, and you're saying he didn't lose enough? He's had 5 top 6 picks - the 3 max contract players and Vesely and the pick traded for Foye and Miller. Now, it you'd said we could have used the cap space and probably the Beal pick to acquire Harden rather than trade for Gortat's then hefty salary, I'd be with you. But Gortat's actually played well these years - leading the NBA in pick assists and among the top few in shooting percentage near the rim - so what that he's been helped by Wall's presence. He's no star, but he has been the one player doing the dirty work.

[Dat2U]

Gortat the issue to all our problem? And all this time I thought it was Ernie and brooks.

Again, who traded for Gortat? I’m unsure why people who hate EG wouldn’t agree waiting a year and drafting Clint, Embiid or Jokic wouldn’t have made us one of the formidable teams in the league (because of course it would have).

EG had to save his job after Okafor went down. It was a typical ernie panic move. He knew the season was over because he couldn't count on Seraphin. He then doubled down on the problem by giving Gortat a 5 yr deal the next offseason. To a 30 yr C. I said at that the time that 5th year was going to come back and bite us in the ass.

It's the only reason he's still on the roster today.

[barelyawake]

THank you, Dat. I still don’t understand how people praise a guy who fed off passes from Wall, and yet hate Wall. Or hate the guy who traded for Gortat, but don’t see Gortat as part of the problem. Or understand that our front court sucks, but don’t see the guy clogging our cap and center starter position as the problem. Why? Because of stats Wall spoofed him? You can’t envision someone much better being spoonfed those passes and converting them better?

Wall went to ask Gortat to quash the beef, and Gortat said no. And you blame Wall? What is that?

[dangermouse]

I honestly believe that team with Wall/Beal/Ariza/Nene/Oka was good and woulda been great if things lined up a bit better.

If we had that team with this current Porter, Beal and Sato, maybe throw Markieff in there and let Nene be backup C... hey

Back on topic through I think Gortat is a backup at this point. And we don't have a starter, unless we have luck in the draft we won't get one either. Sigh.

[dangermouse]

You can’t envision someone much better being spoonfed those passes and converting them better?

THIS!

Whenever I bring up all the bunnies that Gortat misses around the rim im told he has one of the best % in the league from that distance.

Well, if he didnt miss the easy ones or had the athletecism to dunk everything, he'd be the league leader by miles. Everyone hates on DeAndre and he costs a hell of a lot more, but can you imagine him crushing everything off Wall dimes? I can.

[barelyawake]

You can’t envision someone much better being spoonfed those passes and converting them better?

THIS!

Whenever I bring up all the bunnies that Gortat misses around the rim im told he has one of the best % in the league from that distance.

Well, if he didnt miss the easy ones or had the athletecism to dunk everything, he'd be the league leader by miles. Everyone hates on DeAndre and he costs a hell of a lot more, but can you imagine him crushing everything off Wall dimes? I can.

Perfect example of stats telling you what did happen, not what could have happened. Which is my main problem with people using only stats.

As to your other argument, about Okafor, we could have been good and STILL gotten Jokic or Clint (if there was that position open and we didn’t trade our pick). They were the logical choices had we not gotten Gortat, and yet done decently.

[Ruzious]

Guys, I'm not even disagreeing that Gortat's been spoonfed by Wall. What I'm saying is - That's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is that he's been effective on the team. And to point at him as being "the problem" when they signed Ian Mahinmi for significantly more money... um... Mahinmi has been a much less effective player than Gortat - playing with the same players. If you want to point to one problem - it would make more sense to look at why the organization wasn't good enough to sign Horford rather than Mahinmi. if you want to complain about someone dropping passes, how in the blue Fudge, to you look at Mahinmi and look at Gortat and then complain about Gortat's hands? Some of the negative comments about Gortat in this thread are... not real smart. He's no star, but to point at him as being THE PROBLEM... you guys are smarter than that... usually. And again, his contract has never been outrageous. Contracts for players like Mahinmi, Nicholson, and Smith have been significantly worse. And so he had a spat with Wall - I mean... it was unfortunate but hardly the end of the world. There's no reason they can't play together. Maybe they won't have ice cream sundaes with sprinkles together, but I'm okay with that. God forbid, they have to go to separate strip clubs. Again, this is the organization that signed Ian Mahinmi to a 4/64 contract, but Gortat is The Problem... wrong.

And to ASSUME that this organization would get AND keep Jokic or Capella... I've always been a big Capella fan, but he wasn't even a high pick, and some people even preferred Motijuanas (sp?) over him when they started out in Houston, and Moti was never any good. Getting Gortat never stopped the Wiz from getting him. And there was never any situation where we either get Gortat or Jokic. The logic jumps made in this thread by otherwise inteligent folks are epic fails. I had my say - I'm out of this convo.

[Wiz99]

THank you, Dat. I still don’t understand how people praise a guy who fed off passes from Wall, and yet hate Wall. Or hate the guy who traded for Gortat, but don’t see Gortat as part of the problem. Or understand that our front court sucks, but don’t see the guy clogging our cap and center starter position as the problem. Why? Because of stats Wall spoofed him? You can’t envision someone much better being spoonfed those passes and converting them better?

Wall went to ask Gortat to quash the beef, and Gortat said no. And you blame Wall? What is that?

Found John Wall’s burner account

[barelyawake]

Guys, I'm not even disagreeing that Gortat's been spoonfed by Wall. What I'm saying is - That's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is that he's been effective on the team. And to point at him as being "the problem" when they signed Ian Mahinmi for significantly more money... um... Mahinmi has been a much less effective player than Gortat - playing with the same players. If you want to point to one problem - it would make more sense to look at why the organization wasn't good enough to sign Horford rather than Mahinmi. if you want to complain about someone dropping passes, how in the blue Fudge, to you look at Mahinmi and look at Gortat and then complain about Gortat's hands? Some of the negative comments about Gortat in this thread are... not real smart. He's no star, but to point at him as being THE PROBLEM... you guys are smarter than that... usually. And again, his contract has never been outrageous. Contracts for players like Mahinmi, Nicholson, and Smith have been significantly worse. And so he had a spat with Wall - I mean... it was unfortunate but hardly the end of the world. There's no reason they can't play together. Maybe they won't have ice cream sundaes with sprinkles together, but I'm okay with that. God forbid, they have to go to separate strip clubs. Again, this is the organization that signed Ian Mahinmi to a 4/64 contract, but Gortat is The Problem... wrong.

And to ASSUME that this organization would get AND keep Jokic or Capella... I've always been a big Capella fan, but he wasn't even a high pick, and some people even preferred Motijuanas (sp?) over him when they started out in Houston, and Moti was never any good. Getting Gortat never stopped the Wiz from getting him. And there was never any situation where we either get Gortat or Jokic. The logic jumps made in this thread by otherwise inteligent folks are epic fails. I had my say - I'm out of this convo.

The pick we traded to get Gortat. If we hadn’t traded that pick. If we had kept it. What happens? That’s the point you seem to be missing.

In terms of team morale, the reason we suck right now is team morale. It has nothing to do with anything else. It has to do with us as a cohesive unit. It’s hard to have a cohesive unit when one of the guys who is supposedly your main pick and roll scorer in the paint is fighting with your point guard, talking in the press constantly (and still) about selfishness, and stating he wants to leave to go to the Magic. If you don’t think that’s a problem, then you’re missing the importance of team dynamics. Teams must believe they have a future. This team knows it has no future. Why? The starting center doesn’t want to be here.

And yeah, Mahimni was a bad idea to sign as a back-up. But, that was after we got out of the lottery and had a starting center (one not of championship caliber). A starting center we traded for a pick in a draft that yielded three championship caliber starting centers throughout the first round of the draft. We didn’t trade a pick to get Mahimni.

[Wiz99]

In terms of team morale, the reason we suck right now is team morale. It has nothing to do with anything else. It has to do with us as a cohesive unit. It’s hard to have a cohesive unit when one of the guys who is supposedly your main pick and roll scorer in the paint is fighting with your point guard, talking in the press constantly (and still) about selfishness.

Ever considered Wall may be the source of the bad morale, lack of team cohesion?

2017-18: Rest of the team saying the team play s better without him, without explicitly saying that, by using the slogan “Everyone eats”. Beal saying the team’s players only meeting earlier this season didn’t go well, was “almost pointless”. Brooks criticizing team for selfish play.

2016: Wall admitted he can’t find a way to get along with Beal.

2014: Coach Wittman calling Wall (and Beal) out for being a poor example, setting the wrong tone. “When you don’t put effort in, you’re not going to have good showings. It just filters down.”

2013: Vets Ariza and Harrington calling a players only meeting in 2013 and called out Wall, asking him to step up and play team ball. Nene a few days before that saying the “young guys need to get their heads out their butts”. He had a 1 on 1 with Wall next day. Team lost that night,

2012: Kevin Seraphin lamenting the lack of team leadership he found when he arrived in DC: “We was losing all the time, by 30, 20, and nobody tried to fix it.”

Personally, I think Beal is owed some of the blame, too. But if Wall is or wants to be the alpha dog, he’s got to take responsibility for when the pack underperforms.

Sources:
Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2013/11/19/wizards-have-players-only-meeting-before-hosting-timberwolves/?utm_term=.19716e3d9a10
Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/11/14/nene-says-young-wizards-must-take-their-heads-out-of-their-butts/
The Score https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1471554-wizards-say-players-only-meeting-ended-up-hurting-team
The Ringer https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3/2/17069476/washington-wizards-bradley-beal-tomas-satoransky-john-wall
NBC Sports http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/washington-wizards/wizards-john-wall-bradley-beal-must-put-aside-tendency-dislike-each-other-court
Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2014/04/11/randy-wittman-criticizes-efforts-of-john-wall-bradley-beal-in-wizards-loss/?wprss=rss_wizards&clsrd

[leswizards]

The trade for Gortat was a mistake, but Gortat has not been the problem. EG is the problem.

If the Wizards had kept the first round pick; tanked; and then signed Gortat in the off season after the trade, then they would have made out very well, and would be in a much better situation today.

[leswizards]

If John Wall is so god damned emotionally weak that he can't be relied upon to produce at a level that he is getting paid because he doesn't get along with one of his teammates, then he is part of the problem.

I am not suggesting that John Wall is that emotionally weak, instead I am replying to one of the OP's points.

[nate33]

How soon we forget. For the first 3 years of his time here, Gortat was a top 10-15 center in the league making just $12M a year. It was a fair contract his first two years and suddenly became a very good contract when the league salaries ballooned in his 3rd year.

Gortat started declining last year, but, relative to his salary, he was still a bargain. This year, Gortat has dropped off considerably more and he is now a negative value contract.

Overall, I don't hate the move. Yeah, it was a typical safe play by Ernie, going for the mediocre sure thing instead of the high risk high reward move that you need in order to land top tier talent. But Ernie gonna Ernie. The team clearly doesn't have a primary focus on winning a championship. They just want to be good enough to draw fan interest and put butts in the seats. Gortat worked just fine toward that end.

Also, knowing EG, if he didn't make the trade and instead kept the pick, he would have probably drafted Mitch McGarry, not Clint Capela.

[Dark Faze]

Trading a first for him when he could have easily been acquired in the off-season was silly.