The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL)

[jredsaz]

But has a chance to get a lot better and if Phoenix can get 2 unprotected picks in 2021, sets them up for a possible huge trade in the 2020 off season.

And as others have commented , with three picks , Phoenix would lose value. So losing a couple picks in 2020 would basically cancel out the lost in value this year.

But that would still give us 3 picks in 2121, Ours, the Miami 1st unprotected, and the Milwaukee pick unprotected. So i guess it still loses value because "All the other teams know that we have 3 picks and wont be taking on 3 rookies".

I didn't realize that pick went unprotected in 21. Though it went to two twos. That's a great asset. Glad it didn't convey.

[AtheJ415]

*Assuming we were to keep all picks, I realize it's doubtful, here's my current stance...which could all change by tomorrow

OPTION 1:
1) Ayton
16) Shai/Smith/Shake/Simmons
31) *Diop/Clark/Frazier (we could possibly trade down & grab 1)
59) McCoy/Metu/Trier

OPTION 2:
1) Doncic
16) M.Robinson/R.Williams/McCoy (not crazy about BM here, trade down?)
31) *Diop/Clark/Frazier/McCoy (we could possibly trade down & grab 1)
59) McCoy/Metu/Trier

*SUNS trade #31 & #59 for NETS #40 & #45

OPTION 1:
1) Ayton
16) Shai/Smith/Shake/Simmons
40) Diop/Clark/Frazier
45) Holiday/Carter/Shamet

OPTION 2:
1) Doncic
16) M. Robinson/R. Williams/McCoy (Not crazy about BM here, trade down?)
40) Diop/Clark/Frazier/McCoy
45) Holiday/Carter/Shamet

I like most all those guys. Is Smith Zhaire Smith? I don't think he lasts that long. Off the top of my head not sure about Simmons. Shamet I don't expect to last THAT long...he is in first round rankings at some places.

I love Clark. Diop is a stud but I have to examine closer. And love Doncic and Ayton of course.

I am more confused about what to do if we land 3 or 4.

I wonder if there is a team in the 7-10 range that would trade us a very useful player plus their pick for 3 or 4. Because I don't see much separation there. I probably like Trae and JJJ there but that whole 3-10 group is close for me.

I like Diop if he falls far enough. I actually think at 3 you go Trae or Porter (if he checks out medically). It's tough because Trae is a bigger need but there are probably going to be more PGs available in the next couple offseasons that can fill that void. I could live with JJJ but see him as riskier than Trae and not quite the offensive upside of Porter.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Funny when I was responding to him a few minutes ago in the other thread I was going to mention what you did because we had talked about it, but since I was responding to WG who is also a Bucks fan, I decided to double check the dates....and



https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So when we talked about it before it finally made sense somewhat why we didn't get the second rounder 17-30 but now seeing the trade dates it once again makes no sense unless it was an error.

BW...

Had this exchange with paulpressey25 over on the Bucks board. Does my possible McD-Horst scenario make some sense?

Talk about being "in the weeds", but I really am curious how these GMs work out the tiny and important details with each other. Real GM stuff? Someone should start a forum based on that.

Well, it was the one spot gap for a 2nd round "cover" that has had us wondering since the trade was made. Made quite typical trading sense for a 2nd to go to the Suns should the pick not convey this year. Not getting that if the Bucks hit the 17 spot exactly...hmm?

My guess is Suns GM McDonough asked for 16-30 reverse protection for 2018 & '19. If 1st not conveyed this year, the Buck send 46-60 in this draft. Horst said- no, we will only give you 18-30 RP for the two years and then 48-60 if that protection kicks in...and he was firm.

McDonough REALLY didn't want the pick, even at 16...he's pretty much said that in recent days. But in November the Suns weren't exactly in a great negotiation position, as you know. Eventually McD backed off to asking for 17-30 / 47-60, but Horst wasn't quite ok meeting right exactly in the middle, so he got a little something, and that was keeping the 2nd round pick at 48-60. In essence giving the Bucks their #47 pick for keeping a pick they'd rather give up now. At the time the Suns had their own 2nd pick, the Grizz's (since moved) and the Raptors. Losing a possible forth 2nd round pick in order to get the RP down to 17...hardly a big price tag should it land there. And it did.

I'll bet these little quirks are here and there in other transaction details. You just don't notice them unless your team is involved.

I think you are probably right in some respect but I still think the final result was more likely an error than giving them a tiny window to where they keep both picks. I think there was probably various talk on the protections and maybe they made one final change late and didn't think to do the other one. I don't know though, for me it would be hard to miss something like that because I noticed it right when I saw the details and it was surprising that no one really pointed it out until a national writer on twitter did a couple of days later....or someone did...and THAT person said that it looks like an error was made.

If you're right, that's an epic fail by McDonough. Not in term of consequences, just the stupidity of the error. We will have to agree to disagree on this one...I think these final terms were contracted exactly how each team settled on in their mind. I just wish Phoenix media had sports journalists curious and informed enough to at least ask McD about this strange little contract nuance or faux pax. Maybe he wouldn't answer honestly, but come on! Someone could ask.

[Mulhollanddrive]

What a great week.

Number 1 seed in lottery, pick 16 and keep 2 future 1sts, Budenholzer interview.

[Bogyo]

Sucks to be a Suns fan again. Whats new?
2 weeks ago we were looking at 1/15/16/31/59. Now that we got the 15/16 packed into 16 only, we only have to wait for 1 to become 4. Lovely.

In all seriousness, I don't really care if we get 1 or 2 and Budenholzer. Or we get Doncic and Kokosov.

[wordsenuff]

Guys I know our luck in the draft sucks but we need to get positive around here with our pick. Enough of this 4th pick ****! We need to take a page out of lavar balls book and speak that #1 pick into existence!

[Sunzgunz]

*Assuming we were to keep all picks, I realize it's doubtful, here's my current stance...which could all change by tomorrow

OPTION 1:
1) Ayton
16) Shai/Smith/Shake/Simmons
31) *Diop/Clark/Frazier (we could possibly trade down & grab 1)
59) McCoy/Metu/Trier

OPTION 2:
1) Doncic
16) M.Robinson/R.Williams/McCoy (not crazy about BM here, trade down?)
31) *Diop/Clark/Frazier/McCoy (we could possibly trade down & grab 1)
59) McCoy/Metu/Trier

*SUNS trade #31 & #59 for NETS #40 & #45

OPTION 1:
1) Ayton
16) Shai/Smith/Shake/Simmons
40) Diop/Clark/Frazier
45) Holiday/Carter/Shamet

OPTION 2:
1) Doncic
16) M. Robinson/R. Williams/McCoy (Not crazy about BM here, trade down?)
40) Diop/Clark/Frazier/McCoy
45) Holiday/Carter/Shamet

I like most all those guys. Is Smith Zhaire Smith? I don't think he lasts that long. Off the top of my head not sure about Simmons. Shamet I don't expect to last THAT long...he is in first round rankings at some places.

I love Clark. Diop is a stud but I have to examine closer. And love Doncic and Ayton of course.

I am more confused about what to do if we land 3 or 4.

I wonder if there is a team in the 7-10 range that would trade us a very useful player plus their pick for 3 or 4. Because I don't see much separation there. I probably like Trae and JJJ there but that whole 3-10 group is close for me.

Yeah, Z. Smith Sir! This is going to be a fun draft! I'm struggling to remember such a volatile draft with so much parody. There are guys projected anywhre from 18 to 48; it's insane! Definitely a GREAT YEAR to have multiple picks.

In all honest, I'm REALLY HOPING Shai falls to 16 (assuming Trae and Sexton are gone as well). I do like Shake, but at the 16 spot, we'd have some criticism to Shake!

As for Smith and Simmons, our 'timeline' has begun to tic more like a 'deadline,' I'm not sure we can sit around waiting on potential any longer.

Yeah, Clark and Diop are like a coin toss for me. Very similar in a lot of areas. Both jack of all trades, master of none. Good athletes, but not elite. Both have hitchy or slower relase. I think Clark gives you an edge on defense, rebounds and may have slightly better vision. Where Diop as more legnth, gives your more shooting range and is probably better suited as a wing/stretch.

Right with you, I think 5 to 10 victories will follow Ayton and Doncic whereever they go, but there's also a few more gems waiting to be discoverd amongst the 1st 10 picks or so. A return visit to single digits, even at the cost of future draft picks, would be orgasmic!

Imo, 3 or 4 spot, Bagley/Porter or trade back a few spots for Trae. The cool thing, regardless to where we pick, Ayton, Bagley and Trae all want to play in Phoenix. When's the last time we had that? Lol. Great for chemistry! I thought the nba gods would settle up their restitution by giving us 2 of the 3! As for Porter, just a fanboy! I think his game translates well.

McD's recent statements have concerned me. The 'timeline' was a marketing tool to advocate patience, not implosion! He almost sounds like a desperate man off a 'deadline.' I sure hope he pays special attention to that Bryan Colangelo character. Not just 'The Process,' but the history behind his number 10 pick. I'd hate for history to repeat itself! It takes 3 stars to be a contender in this league, we could be just one pick and one season away....let's not ruin it now!

[thamadkant]

Guys I know our luck in the draft sucks but we need to get positive around here with our pick. Enough of this 4th pick ****! We need to take a page out of lavar balls book and speak that #1 pick into existence!

you are free to do that.

But for us more realistic (or pessimistic?) fans, we dont like to celebrate until the eggs actually hatch.... and expecting the worse but getting the best (or better) is much better option than getting high then getting slammed back down

[JMac1]

*Assuming we were to keep all picks, I realize it's doubtful, here's my current stance...which could all change by tomorrow

OPTION 1:
1) Ayton
16) Shai/Smith/Shake/Simmons
31) *Diop/Clark/Frazier (we could possibly trade down & grab 1)
59) McCoy/Metu/Trier

OPTION 2:
1) Doncic
16) M.Robinson/R.Williams/McCoy (not crazy about BM here, trade down?)
31) *Diop/Clark/Frazier/McCoy (we could possibly trade down & grab 1)
59) McCoy/Metu/Trier

*SUNS trade #31 & #59 for NETS #40 & #45

OPTION 1:
1) Ayton
16) Shai/Smith/Shake/Simmons
40) Diop/Clark/Frazier
45) Holiday/Carter/Shamet

OPTION 2:
1) Doncic
16) M. Robinson/R. Williams/McCoy (Not crazy about BM here, trade down?)
40) Diop/Clark/Frazier/McCoy
45) Holiday/Carter/Shamet

I like most all those guys. Is Smith Zhaire Smith? I don't think he lasts that long. Off the top of my head not sure about Simmons. Shamet I don't expect to last THAT long...he is in first round rankings at some places.

I love Clark. Diop is a stud but I have to examine closer. And love Doncic and Ayton of course.

I am more confused about what to do if we land 3 or 4.

I wonder if there is a team in the 7-10 range that would trade us a very useful player plus their pick for 3 or 4. Because I don't see much separation there. I probably like Trae and JJJ there but that whole 3-10 group is close for me.

I like Diop if he falls far enough. I actually think at 3 you go Trae or Porter (if he checks out medically). It's tough because Trae is a bigger need but there are probably going to be more PGs available in the next couple offseasons that can fill that void. I could live with JJJ but see him as riskier than Trae and not quite the offensive upside of Porter.

Don’t like Porter because of his injury. But I’m all for the going for the potential star guy. JJJ says super role player for a burgeoning playoff team about to compete for a title with established stars. Trae and Bagley at 3 and 4 have to be the guys. Some still have Bagley higher than Ayton and once upon at time before the 43 percent double team, everyone wanted the next Nash. Shouldn’t change now.

Doncic Ayton Bagley Young could all be special. Take one.

[Kerrsed]

Great interview/read. Didnt know where to post it, but since its about Scouts i figured the Draft Thread would be best. Really gives you an insight on what they really do and what they are looking at.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/06/20/a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-the-life-as-an-nba-scout/

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think you are probably right in some respect but I still think the final result was more likely an error than giving them a tiny window to where they keep both picks. I think there was probably various talk on the protections and maybe they made one final change late and didn't think to do the other one. I don't know though, for me it would be hard to miss something like that because I noticed it right when I saw the details and it was surprising that no one really pointed it out until a national writer on twitter did a couple of days later....or someone did...and THAT person said that it looks like an error was made.

Obviously not an error. I'm always shocked when people think that those who know more about a subject and who are professionals are worse at their jobs than novices and critics would be. I'm especially shocked when smart people like you make this - what I perceive to be stupid - sort of mistake.

Perhaps notable that the Bucks picked 17 last year. Something like - if we (Bucks) improve, you get a future 1st and a 2nd. If we're worse, you just get this year's 1st. But if we're no better, you can delay the pick, but we can at least keep our second.

Wouldn't be an unreasonable thing for a GM to ask. McD failing to give in would be similar to admitting that the asset he was giving up wasn't worth ****.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Why isn't the lottery done at the same time as the tiebreakers.

[bwgood77]

I think you are probably right in some respect but I still think the final result was more likely an error than giving them a tiny window to where they keep both picks. I think there was probably various talk on the protections and maybe they made one final change late and didn't think to do the other one. I don't know though, for me it would be hard to miss something like that because I noticed it right when I saw the details and it was surprising that no one really pointed it out until a national writer on twitter did a couple of days later....or someone did...and THAT person said that it looks like an error was made.

Obviously not an error. I'm always shocked when people think that those who know more about a subject and who are professionals are worse at their jobs than novices and critics would be. I'm especially shocked when smart people like you make this - what I perceive to be stupid - sort of mistake.

Perhaps notable that the Bucks picked 17 last year. Something like - if we (Bucks) improve, you get a future 1st and a 2nd. If we're worse, you just get this year's 1st. But if we're no better, you can delay the pick, but we can at least keep our second.

Wouldn't be an unreasonable thing for a GM to ask. McD failing to give in would be similar to admitting that the asset he was giving up wasn't worth ****.

That sounds a little ridiculous. I prefer to think of it as a possible error (people make mistakes) more than an intentional bad hedge, but I guess considering some of the other trades that have been made, anything is possible.

[gaspar]

Watch on YouTube

[Walt_Uoob]

https://stats.nba.com/draft/history/?CF=OVERALL_PICK*E*16&Season=

Notable #16 picks: John Stockton, Ron Artest, Rozier, Vucevic, Nurkic, Turkoglu, Tony Delk. Probably best to ignore the other 60 years though.

[Walt_Uoob]

The likelihood that the Bucks pick conveys in the 20s in 2020 really stands out and reduces its value as a trade asset, but we could offset that by adding more protection. I.e. we could add a provision that if it conveys in that range and our own pick is higher then we give them our pick instead, or the right to swap with us, etc. I would think something like that could really reduce the downside and significantly improve its value in the eyes of other teams, yet wouldn't feel like a big sacrifice from our end, especially since we're hoping to be a playoff team by then too.

[KD95]

According to Spanish media, Sarver was in Madrid today watching Doncic.

[starbosa10]

Just want top 2. Just think Doncic and Ayton are a step above the rest

[Kerrsed]

Suddenly, the cameras were fixed on a middle-aged man. He could have been a fifty-something. Fan of Fuenlabrada or Real Madrid. But no: it was the owner of the Phoenix Suns, Robert Sarver. What was he doing in Madrid? Well, very easy: watch Luka Doncic live and live. Surely now they believe more that the Slovenian can be number one in the NBA Draft (the Sarver franchise has ended with the worst balance of the regular season). With his Dragon Ball shoes, the boy flew as if carrying the Goku cloud with him. And, with him, the whole Madrid, which tied a new league victory in the second part.

https://www.elespanol.com/deportes/baloncesto/acb/20180414/doncic-luce-dueno-suns-madrid-tritura-fuenlabrada/299720997_0.html

Doncic had 17 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 4 steals and 2 blocks in 27 minutes......with Sarver watching front row.

[Kerrsed]

Sarver also owns a Soccer club over there.....in the same city as Doncic's next game (Mallorca), so i think its safe to say that he will be at that one as well.