Pacers Off-Season

[8305]

This team has been a nice surprise but I think the Pacers still see this year as a first step. Our position in the draft won’t be near as good as was probably expected when the year started. So it will be up to Pritchard to use the cap space the Pacers have this year to make something happen. I expect Thad to opt out and Cory Joseph will need to be resigned.

I’m not a fan of either Aaron Gordon or Julius Randle. It will likely take big money to the point of an over pay to get either. If we are thinking free agent forward to replace Thad I like Kyle Anderson. I like that he’s potentially a second ball handler and paired with Victor you may not need a pg on the floor. That creates some possibilities. Like utilizing a 3 and D type where you might otherwise need a pg. we don’t have that guy now so I’m thinking Avery Bradley or Caldwell-Pope.

Forwards Anderson/Bogdonavich
Center Turner
Guards. Oladipo/Bradley or Pope

I don’t think much shooting is lost and that group would be better defensively.

[Jermainevent]

Pacers ended up getting the 23rd draft pick...of course.

[Wizop]

This team has been a nice surprise but I think the Pacers still see this year as a first step.

by Pacers, do you mean the players or management. both want more, but I doubt the players think massive changes are needed.

Thad has a big decision to make. Al has a little one. GRob, JYoung, Poythress, Booker, and Moore are on the bubble. I keep Ike, Leaf, and Sumner and the big 8, and our draft choice for 12.

Sent from my phone.

[8305]

This team has been a nice surprise but I think the Pacers still see this year as a first step.

by Pacers, do you mean the players or management. both want more, but I doubt the players think massive changes are needed.

Thad has a big decision to make. Al has a little one. GRob, JYoung, Poythress, Booker, and Moore are on the bubble. I keep Ike, Leaf, and Sumner and the big 8, and our draft choice for 12.

Sent from my phone.

I mean the pacer organization. I agree that guys like Thad, CoJo, Collison and Bogdonavich probably don’t want massive change. This is probably the best gig any of them have ever had. But the goal is a team that can contend and while this team is further along than anyone expected they still look to be short on talent to contend.

[Wizop]

But the goal is a team that can contend and while this team is further along than anyone expected they still look to be short on talent to contend.

48 wins is contending by some measures but I take your point. with so many wins in close games, a slip here or there could have dropped us quite a lot. the question though is how much improvement can be expected through growth and playing together alone without a major talent addition other than through the draft.

Sent from my phone.

[Topofthekey]

I think Thad is more likely to opt in than out

I don't really see anyone willing to pay him more than 10m a year

Even if he wants to look for a long term contract, he can always do that end of next season, after he has cashed in the final year of his current contract

More likely to opt out is CoJo

He's had a pretty good season with the Pacers, the money on the final year of his contract isn't particularly a lot, and even if he doesn't end up finding another suitor, Pacers would probably like to resign him, so for him it's a low risk, potentially high reward choice

[Topofthekey]

All it takes is for Vic to miss maybe a month's worth of games and Pacers become a lottery team

Rebounding and interior defense, I am OK with counting on improvement from Myles and Domas

Future situation at PG, I am also OK with trying out one of the D leaguers, like Sumner maybe, or the draft

Second scorer though, I don't really see anyone on the team growing into that role, at least not immediately

[winter_mute_13]

I held off answering this question I think we will have a better picture of what we need to do after the play offs. If we get the boot in the 1st round we can start thinking about what to do in about 10-12 days.

We've got 3 large non-guaranteed contracts for 2018 DC is owed only $2 million, Bogie $1.5 million and Jefferson $4 million. They could be traded to teams facing the repeater tax in 2018-19 and get paid to do it. The fact that DC and Bogie are productive members of the starting line up makes it tough to do that.

Yup.

The thing about our unexpected success this season is that it makes the decision of whether to keep our current guys or go for cap space tougher. I don't think we really know the answer to that right now, and I believe the guys' playoff performances will factor into the decision.

Jefferson's contract should be the easiest decision by far. Not only is he rarely used, but his option date is in the middle of next season, so the Pacers can opt to keep him around until the exact moment they need to use his contract. Bojan (6/29) and DC (7/1) though, have option dates which are basically at the start of next season. So we'll have to decide before FA whether to keep them or not. And of course Thad and Corey's decisions also factor in.

[Wizop]

All it takes is for Vic to miss maybe a month's worth of games and Pacers become a lottery team

Is Cleveland a contender? Could they survive a month without LeBron?

[Topofthekey]

In a way it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges, because Cavs and Pacers have different problems. Cavs had long losing streaks even with LeBron playing. But on paper at least, if LeBron misses a month, Kevin Love should still be able to help them win a few games

A lot will depend on their schedule for the month. Cavs led by Love should still probably beat Suns, Magic, Hawks, Bulls, Mavs, Kings, Lakers, and Nets in regular season games. They probably have a chance against Knicks, Grizzlies, Hornets, Clippers, Pistons, and Nuggets as well

So I think Cavs can probably still go at least 5-10 in a month without Lebron, which obviously isn't good, but probably just enough to remain in the playoff race. Pacers without Vic, if the 0-6 record is any indication, will be lucky to win more than 2 or 3 games in a month

Not that I am undervaluing the others on the team, but Vic is really the only one to consistently fuel the team's offense. Myles is a bit meek sometimes, Thad is efficient mainly in small doses, Bojan is streaky, Lance is bipolar

[Moooose]

It all would depend on how we finish in the postseason.

About the draft, I am okay with us sticking at 23. If we are to move up, I just hope we will not give up much because IMO, the talent at 15th to around 20th to 21st is on the same tier. And there are guys in the 2nd round who'd likely climb up the draft boards once the workouts begin - Holiday, Wagner, maybe even Okogie, just to name a few.

IMO, the best move might be to not make any move at all.

[granger05]

I'm curious about some contract mechanics for the Pacers this offseason. They have these partially guaranteed deals that seem like amazing trade bait. However, Bojan and Collison have played so well for us this year, and chemistry seems so important for this team, that trading them away seems difficult without an amazing return.

I know that the NBA closed the loophole that allowed cut players to re-sign with the team that traded them, but the way they closed it was that they couldn't re-sign during that league year. Bojan's contract guarantees on June 29th and Collison's on July 1st. I can't find a calendar for the league's fiscal year, but looking back at previous seasons it would be in that early July timeframe. If we traded either of these guys at the draft to a team looking for cap savings who cut them to avoid the full guarantee... Are they eligible to re-sign with the Pacers on a longer deal when the moratorium period ends since it's a new league year?

Thanks in advance to any league rules gurus.

[Cresy06]

This year's off season is so hard to predict.

In a way, I want us to go after another star player, maybe like Kemba Walker, or maybe throw money at Aaron Gordon or Jabari Parker.
But then again, I just want to see this team develop, give GRIII another chance to be healthy next season and draft a young kid with a ton of upside.

The way they have been playing this season, I think this team deserves to stay together

[basketballwacko2]

I'm curious about some contract mechanics for the Pacers this offseason. They have these partially guaranteed deals that seem like amazing trade bait. However, Bojan and Collison have played so well for us this year, and chemistry seems so important for this team, that trading them away seems difficult without an amazing return.

I know that the NBA closed the loophole that allowed cut players to re-sign with the team that traded them, but the way they closed it was that they couldn't re-sign during that league year. Bojan's contract guarantees on June 29th and Collison's on July 1st. I can't find a calendar for the league's fiscal year, but looking back at previous seasons it would be in that early July timeframe. If we traded either of these guys at the draft to a team looking for cap savings who cut them to avoid the full guarantee... Are they eligible to re-sign with the Pacers on a longer deal when the moratorium period ends since it's a new league year?

Thanks in advance to any league rules gurus.

I would say if the trade was before July 1st that would be 2017-18 season and if they are released after July 1st that would be the 2018-19 season. I may not be interpreting that correctly. It's the NBA no reacquiring rule.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2017/7/11/15945770/atlanta-hawks-salary-cap-ryan-kelly-resign-cba-by-laws

h) If a Team trades a player and the assignee Team subsequently places the player on waivers, the assignor Team shall not be permitted to sign the player to a new Contract (or claim the player off of waivers) before the earlier of: (i) one (1) year following the date all conditions to the trade were satisfied; or (ii) the July 1 following the last Season of the player’s Player Contract.

This is a signing restriction and not a re-acquisition restriction. In other words, the CBA doesn't bar Atlanta from trading for Ryan Kelly although it does stop Atlanta from making a waiver claim.

This CBA section directly relates to Ryan Kelly as he was traded by Atlanta and his contract’s last Season is 2017-18, even though the last Season is non-guaranteed. He is under this signing restriction at the moment.

There's a very good argument that if Houston waived Ryan Kelly prior to July 1 -- which is when the NBA’s Salary Cap year turns over -- that the NBA could deem his last Season to have been 2016-17. Ryan wouldn't have been on any teams cap sheet at any point for the 2017-18 Salary Cap year and his contract would have been terminated. Atlanta would have a good argument that they could re-sign Ryan.

However, Ryan Kelly was on Houston's cap sheet on July 1st. It is extremely hard to then argue that his contract’s last Season was not the 2017-18 Season. Which implies that the earliest that Atlanta could re-sign Ryan would be 2018 June 28. Effectively ending any chance for him to re-sign with Atlanta for the entire 2017-18 Season.

[granger05]

I would say if the trade was before July 1st that would be 2017-18 season and if they are released after July 1st that would be the 2018-19 season. I may not be interpreting that correctly. It's the NBA no reacquiring rule.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2017/7/11/15945770/atlanta-hawks-salary-cap-ryan-kelly-resign-cba-by-laws

It looks like it depends on the dates then. If those guarantee dates are within this league year (or even if the team that acquires them terminates them during this league year before those dates) then we could resign them. I'd love it if they could use these contracts to acquire another nice piece and then get the band back together afterward.

[Tom White]

The Pacers would have to wait a year.

[winter_mute_13]

I would say if the trade was before July 1st that would be 2017-18 season and if they are released after July 1st that would be the 2018-19 season. I may not be interpreting that correctly. It's the NBA no reacquiring rule.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2017/7/11/15945770/atlanta-hawks-salary-cap-ryan-kelly-resign-cba-by-laws

It looks like it depends on the dates then. If those guarantee dates are within this league year (or even if the team that acquires them terminates them during this league year before those dates) then we could resign them. I'd love it if they could use these contracts to acquire another nice piece and then get the band back together afterward.

That seems like it would fall foul of the league's anti-circumvention rule. It's basically a catch-all rule that lets the league prohibit any signing or trade that they feel circumvents the rules, even if it is not specifically prohibited.

[basketballwacko2]

I would say if the trade was before July 1st that would be 2017-18 season and if they are released after July 1st that would be the 2018-19 season. I may not be interpreting that correctly. It's the NBA no reacquiring rule.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2017/7/11/15945770/atlanta-hawks-salary-cap-ryan-kelly-resign-cba-by-laws

It looks like it depends on the dates then. If those guarantee dates are within this league year (or even if the team that acquires them terminates them during this league year before those dates) then we could resign them. I'd love it if they could use these contracts to acquire another nice piece and then get the band back together afterward.

That seems like it would fall foul of the league's anti-circumvention rule. It's basically a catch-all rule that lets the league prohibit any signing or trade that they feel circumvents the rules, even if it is not specifically prohibited.

Well if it was done with the intent to circumvent I'm sure the NBA would rule against it. By intent I would mean some kind of agreement by our player to only resign with us.