The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

euphorbus · Post #761 » by **euphorbus** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:58 am

I actually think that Clifford could return to the college ranks. Those kids need structure. Clifford knows structure. He's a pretty good teacher if he ever lets you off the bench.

TinmanZBoy · Post #762 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:24 am

euphorbus wrote:I actually think that Clifford could return to the college ranks. Those kids need structure. Clifford knows structure. He's a pretty good teacher if he ever lets you off the bench.

second this... but it seems he is obsessed with NBA via one of his interviews... so I doubt he will be back coaching college
i'd like to see he replaces Mark Jackson in ESPN... he and JVG are gold

TheKingofSting · Post #763 » by **TheKingofSting** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:44 am

I'll take the high road. Thanks for your service, Coach Clifford. No matter how much we disagreed on things you left our organization better than you found it. At least we were respectable and this is coming from a big time we should have tanked this past season fan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NCHeels2008 · Post #764 » by **NCHeels2008** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:14 am

Eoghan wrote:
Braggins wrote:
Eoghan wrote:I'm in a holding pattern. I am elated with the firing of Clifford but the news of Fizdale seriously oft-puts me. I loathe Fizdale, aka Mark Jackson 2.0. I'd rather keep Clifford than hire Bleeding Gums Murphy.

I'm very optimistic about the house cleaning though. Fire the ball boys too, no one should be exempt.

I don't know much about Fizdale, but your anti-endorsement is enough to get me off the bandwagon.

I explained it in the coaching thread but it's just a gut feeling. The same gut feeling that let me know Clifford was a terrible coach before basically everybody else.

Huh?? I think Clifford overachieved until this year and even this year wasn't a bad job.

Eoghan · Post #765 » by **Eoghan** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:53 pm

NCHeels2008 wrote:
Eoghan wrote:
Braggins wrote:I don't know much about Fizdale, but your anti-endorsement is enough to get me off the bandwagon.

I explained it in the coaching thread but it's just a gut feeling. The same gut feeling that let me know Clifford was a terrible coach before basically everybody else.

Huh?? I think Clifford overachieved until this year and even this year wasn't a bad job.

No, he sucks. His success is wholly due to being able to get his team to work hard while more than half the league was super tanking. I refuse to consider any coach that can't/won't make obvious in-game adjustments as good.

BeesWax · Post #766 » by **BeesWax** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:54 pm

NCHeels2008 wrote:
Eoghan wrote:
Braggins wrote:I don't know much about Fizdale, but your anti-endorsement is enough to get me off the bandwagon.

I explained it in the coaching thread but it's just a gut feeling. The same gut feeling that let me know Clifford was a terrible coach before basically everybody else.

Huh?? I think Clifford overachieved until this year and even this year wasn't a bad job.

I think he underachieved and had a roster built just for him. We were calling for his head a long time ago because of his stupid rotations and inability to adjust to a changing game.

NCHeels2008 · Post #767 » by **NCHeels2008** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:48 pm

Eoghan wrote:
NCHeels2008 wrote:
Eoghan wrote:I explained it in the coaching thread but it's just a gut feeling. The same gut feeling that let me know Clifford was a terrible coach before basically everybody else.

Huh?? I think Clifford overachieved until this year and even this year wasn't a bad job.

No, he sucks. His success is wholly due to being able to get his team to work hard while more than half the league was super tanking. I refuse to consider any coach that can't/won't make obvious in-game adjustments as good.

Which year(s) did we underachieve/overachieve? How good do you think this team should be?

amcoolio · Post #768 » by **amcoolio** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:33 pm

NCHeels2008 wrote:
Eoghan wrote:
NCHeels2008 wrote:
Huh?? I think Clifford overachieved until this year and even this year wasn't a bad job.

No, he sucks. His success is wholly due to being able to get his team to work hard while more than half the league was super tanking. I refuse to consider any coach that can't/won't make obvious in-game adjustments as good.

Which year(s) did we underachieve/overachieve? How good do you think this team should be?

No offense, but aren't you a Pistons fan? I don't think anyone who watches a full Hornets game can endorse Clifford and his awful x's and o's.

Rich4114 · Post #769 » by **Rich4114** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:52 pm

Clifford is a good person, a good players coach, a motivator, etc. He can be a good head coach with certain makeup of rosters but when it comes to x’s and o’s, oh man was he bad. Just go watch basically any close game we had over the past two years and watch. There’s a reason why we always lost close games. There’s a reason why our net rating is positive and we aren’t in the playoffs.

NCHeels2008 · Post #770 » by **NCHeels2008** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:12 pm

amcoolio wrote:
NCHeels2008 wrote:
Eoghan wrote:No, he sucks. His success is wholly due to being able to get his team to work hard while more than half the league was super tanking. I refuse to consider any coach that can't/won't make obvious in-game adjustments as good.

Which year(s) did we underachieve/overachieve? How good do you think this team should be?

No offense, but aren't you a Pistons fan? I don't think anyone who watches a full Hornets game can endorse Clifford and his awful x's and o's.

I was with the Sheed era team, but haven't really kept up w/ em that close since they broke up the core. And you keep dodging my question, how many seasons did he underachieve and how badly?

Rocketsbaby · Post #771 » by **Rocketsbaby** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:22 pm

Getting rid of Clifford is the right move. No excuse for how bad the Hornets have been the last two years. He's out of touch he plays lineups that are always too big. How many games did they lose by insisting on playing Hibbert... Hawes... Howard with Zeller.... MKG at SF... etc

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #772 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:44 pm

NCHeels2008 wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
NCHeels2008 wrote:
Which year(s) did we underachieve/overachieve? How good do you think this team should be?

No offense, but aren't you a Pistons fan? I don't think anyone who watches a full Hornets game can endorse Clifford and his awful x's and o's.

I was with the Sheed era team, but haven't really kept up w/ em that close since they broke up the core. And you keep dodging my question, how many seasons did he underachieve and how badly?

Maybe ... and it's a big maybe since the tank ended after Dunlap and Cliff had a lot more talent to work with ... you can argue that 2013-14 was an overachieve. That's it. Cliff did a good job in 2015-16 (up to the playoffs) but that was to be expected with such a talented group (especially after the Lee trade).

Potential underachieve years are 2014-15, 2016, & this past season. There were circumstances in each season where you could argue against it being Cliff's fault, but overall he failed to make lemonade out of the lemons in all 3 seasons.

Post #773 » by **JDR720** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:26 pm

i think the team now has more or less the same level of talent as either of the playoff teams we had. I dont know if its more of a case of under/over achieving more than we are just not improving and the rest of the east is, so we get left behind.

Post #774 » by **fatlever** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 pm

Only three teams in the history of League have finished 10 games below 500 and had a positive Point differential for the season. The 2016-2017 Hornets, and 2017-2018 hornets make up two of those three teams. Hornets were absolutely atrocious can clothes games in crunch time over the past two seasons and that's why we missed the playoffs both of those seasons. The coach has to accept a lot of blame for those situations for putting the wrong players on the floor and playing the wrong schemes and calling the wrong plays.

Sent from my SM-G920V using RealGM mobile app

Braggins · Post #775 » by **Braggins** » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:35 am

Rocketsbaby wrote:Getting rid of Clifford is the right move. No excuse for how bad the Hornets have been the last two years. He's out of touch he plays lineups that are always too big. How many games did they lose by insisting on playing Hibbert... Hawes... Howard with Zeller.... MKG at SF... etc

I've thought Clifford was a bad coach the entire time hes been here, but Last year when he did the Hibbert/Hawes thing for like 20 games was when I knew for sure that he was a lost cause and wasn't ever going to get it.

Post #776 » by **JDR720** » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:52 am

Braggins wrote:
Rocketsbaby wrote:Getting rid of Clifford is the right move. No excuse for how bad the Hornets have been the last two years. He's out of touch he plays lineups that are always too big. How many games did they lose by insisting on playing Hibbert... Hawes... Howard with Zeller.... MKG at SF... etc

I've thought Clifford was a bad coach the entire time hes been here, but Last year when he did the Hibbert/Hawes thing for like 20 games was when I knew for sure that he was a lost cause and wasn't ever going to get it.

thats not as bad as Maxiell over Biz.

316Hornets · Post #777 » by **316Hornets** » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:11 am

fatlever wrote:Only three teams in the history of League have finished 10 games below 500 and had a positive Point differential for the season. The 2016-2017 Hornets, and 2017-2018 hornets make up two of those three teams. Hornets were absolutely atrocious can clothes games in crunch time over the past two seasons and that's why we missed the playoffs both of those seasons. The coach has to accept a lot of blame for those situations for putting the wrong players on the floor and playing the wrong schemes and calling the wrong plays.

Sent from my SM-G920V using RealGM mobile app

That's pretty significant stat. Not sure how anyone can say Clifford is a good coach after watching our late game collapses for the past couple years. Clifford is just a coach that is stuck in the 1990s while most every other team has evolved. I can only hope that whoever we bring in will be able to rid whatever bad habits and mindset Clifford coached so we don't have to watch another season of the Hornets appearing completely clueless when it comes to crunch time.

Post #778 » by **JDR720** » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:19 am

How many games did he cost us vs how many games did he win us? His overall record is like 20 games below .500 i think.

Maxiell over Biz: Thats at least 5 wins. Maxiell was so bad
MCW over anyone: Thats at least 5 wins. MCW might be our worst player ever, and thats saying something.
Played Neal when Neal couldn't hit the broad side of a barn: Probably 3 wins at least. he shot 35%, played 21mins and 43 games.
Hawes + Hibbert combo: 3 wins +.

Thats the worst ones i can think of off the top of my head. I cant remember any time when he won us a game with his strats, but im gonna assume he did and say its 5 times.

and thats not even getting into his other problems like his 4th quarter stuff, cant inbound a ball etc.

Joest2003 · Post #779 » by **Joest2003** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:00 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Just for a "injuried" Batum...

Do you think he wasn't really injured?

If he's hurt then stay out. Lamb was doing great if he was still hurt when he came back all he was doing is hurting the team. He's just soft. Walker was battling shoulder and wrist injuries all season that didn't give him an excuse to stink it up for the whole year.

catch20two · Post #780 » by **catch20two** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Just for a "injuried" Batum...

Do you think he wasn't really injured?

If he's hurt then stay out. Lamb was doing great if he was still hurt when he came back all he was doing is hurting the team. He's just soft. Walker was battling shoulder and wrist injuries all season that didn't give him an excuse to stink it up for the whole year.

Facts!