The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Moderators: PaulieWal, Doctor MJ, Clyde Frazier, penbeast0, trex_8063
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Ballboy
- Posts: 31
- And1: 10
- Joined: Apr 15, 2018
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Lebron has some weird adversaries in his career, Boris Diaw comes to mind and now Bogdan Bogdanovic, who if people are being honest, probably has covered Lebron better than anyone else this season.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 972
- And1: 783
- Joined: May 27, 2015
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,576
- And1: 1,701
- Joined: Jun 14, 2017
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Lebron scored all 12 points in the last 8 minutes of the quarter outside of Love making that 3 with 7 seconds left.
How many wide open shots have these guys missed in all 3 games?
This team has taken a complete step back in the playoffs. It's crazy to see the drop off.
How many wide open shots have these guys missed in all 3 games?
This team has taken a complete step back in the playoffs. It's crazy to see the drop off.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,576
- And1: 1,701
- Joined: Jun 14, 2017
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
If losing in the first round is a black mark then you can black mark almost every other GOAT player. Including Jordan.
If you also think Lebron has been the main reason they are 2-1 down this series then you clearly haven't been watching.
Posts like this are too idiotic to pass up.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
- Bled
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,640
- And1: 261
- Joined: Dec 09, 2010
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Man, this team has no heart.
Let Darren Collison free and get that ball was telling.
Let Darren Collison free and get that ball was telling.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 972
- And1: 783
- Joined: May 27, 2015
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
NbaAllDay wrote:Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
If losing in the first round is a black mark then you can black mark almost every other GOAT player. Including Jordan.
If you also think Lebron has been the main reason they are 2-1 down this series then you clearly haven't been watching.
Posts like this are too idiotic to pass up.
MJ never ever lost with home court, not did he ever lose as a favourite in any playoff series.. go look it up. Lebron is/was a gigantic favourite going into this series.
Know your history before you respond like that.. young fella..
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Rookie
- Posts: 1,075
- And1: 1,587
- Joined: Dec 30, 2016
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
LeBron isn't playing ideal series, but if your leader in three games has stats like 33-11-8 on 63%ts and your team stole one close game home and is down 1-2 against solid but still 48W Pacers - that clearly shows how awful his supporting is playing.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,385
- And1: 3,836
- Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Jurassic_Park wrote:
MJ never ever lost with home court, not did he ever lose as a favourite in any playoff series.. go look it up. Lebron is/was a gigantic favourite going into this series.
Know your history before you respond like that.. young fella..
I swear, whether LeBron can equal or surpass MJ is an obsession of everyone but LeBron fans. We really don't give a ****.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
- Joao Saraiva
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,036
- And1: 5,844
- Joined: Feb 09, 2011
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
I don't think players can get disqualified even if they have some bad series in their careers.
But let's talk about legacy. Is it bad for LBJ? It depends. Obviously winning is always better. But if LeBron would have won the 11 finals playing like that... I would call it a bad series from him anyway.
If he loses this series with the way he's been playing... I wouldn't say he's had a particularly bad series. Cleveland is having a ton of trouble scoring. They scored 90 points today. 100 in game two and 80 in the 1st.
In game 1:
80 points for the Cavs. 24 points for James on 51.8 ts% and 12 assists with 3 TOs.
He generated more than 50% (24 + 24 at least without even contemplating assists for 3s) on subpar efficiency but very good AST/TO ratio.
In game 2:
100 points for the Cavs. 46 points on 77.4 ts% with 5 assists and 3 TOs. So he was ultra efficient, didn't turn the ball much and he still provided at least participation on 56 points for the Cavs. Again, more than 50% and almost without wasting possessions. It takes a big effort to produce this. It takes a type of game most players can't do many times in a career in the playoffs. And his team won by 3... that tells you a bit about this series.
In game 3:
90 points for the Cavs. LeBron had 28 points on more or less 55ts% (still isn't on basketball reference, it will be arround here). 8 assists and 6 TOs. Good efficiency, not so good AST/TO ratio. But his AST/TO ratio looks worse than his playmaking actually did watching the game. His teammates couldn't get an open shot to go the entire 2nd half, so there is that with assists.
Still LeBron participated in at least 44 points of the Cavs. Arround 50% again.
The problem is Cleveland has no one generating offense. In the perimeter they have no capable guys, so it will be harder and harder for LeBron to operate in the post or get some easy baskets trough cuts.
Kevin Love is supposed to be an all-star but every time they call him to make a play in the post he doesn't deliver. It's as simple as that. He's basically not generating any offense by himself.
Clarkson has been a disaster. Hood too. JR has been inconsistent but given what's expected from him he's been a + for the team.
The problem is that the Cavs have absolutely no shot creation besides the one from LeBron. And he's been good at that given what the team has actually produced.
All this to say: if things remain like this and he loses... no, I don't see this as a hit on his legacy. He hasn't been superb every minute of the game for sure, but he's delivered and done his part. It's up to the supporting cast to deliver more and coach Lue (who seems like coach cLueless out there). He can't run any sort of decent play out of a timeout, he can't find the best rotation for his team and he's relying on heavy heavy minutes on James the entire season for the Cavs to even be competitive.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
- Joao Saraiva
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,036
- And1: 5,844
- Joined: Feb 09, 2011
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Jurassic_Park wrote:NbaAllDay wrote:Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
If losing in the first round is a black mark then you can black mark almost every other GOAT player. Including Jordan.
If you also think Lebron has been the main reason they are 2-1 down this series then you clearly haven't been watching.
Posts like this are too idiotic to pass up.
MJ never ever lost with home court, not did he ever lose as a favourite in any playoff series.. go look it up. Lebron is/was a gigantic favourite going into this series.
Know your history before you respond like that.. young fella..
That needs context too. Jordan never had such type of cast problems after he started winning. That's what makes the odds so in favour of LeBron: he went to the finals a ton of times in a row. In reality 1,09 is not an odd that reflects the series context. I thought the Cavs would be the favorite team, but not by that much.
And if somehow Cleveland makes it past these guys, are they the top dogs vs Toronto too? Against Philadelphia? Because in the odds... they might.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,385
- And1: 3,836
- Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Can't believe how awful the team has been offensively after finishing 5th in ORTG in the regular season. Some of it was expected given defensive effort is better in the playoffs and Cleveland's lack of 2nd playmaker was going to be glaring, but I wasn't expecting this either. The offense just looks so stagnant. Right back to the days of Mike Brown.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,815
- And1: 2,722
- Joined: Jul 15, 2002
- Location: Earth
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
IG2 wrote:Jurassic_Park wrote:
MJ never ever lost with home court, not did he ever lose as a favourite in any playoff series.. go look it up. Lebron is/was a gigantic favourite going into this series.
Know your history before you respond like that.. young fella..
I swear, whether LeBron can equal or surpass MJ is an obsession of everyone but LeBron fans. We really don't give a ****.
The Jordan stuff is just a way to needlessly knock Lebron instead of admitting that his career has been a success.
Lebron already passed Bird to become the greatest of all time at his position. That is a hell of an accomplishment.
He will never pass Jordan... So what.
He already passed Bird for positional supremacy, and he is flat out better than Kobe for best of his generation.
Success.
Don't believe the hype...
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
- Joao Saraiva
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,036
- And1: 5,844
- Joined: Feb 09, 2011
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
IG2 wrote:Can't believe how awful the team has been offensively after finishing 5th in ORTG in the regular season. Some of it was expected given defensive effort is better in the playoffs and Cleveland's lack of 2nd playmaker was going to be glaring, but I wasn't expecting this either. The offense just looks so stagnant. Right back to the days of Mike Brown.
I believe this team's offensive ceilling is actually high (not superb definitely, but high). But it depends on inconsistent players. JR Smith, Hood and Clarkson are the players that can provide a high ceilling on Cleveland's offense. But they've been bad overall. Hood and Clarkson have been terrible to say the least.
With that said, their floor is pretty low too as they depend too much on LeBron doing everything with a lack of offensive system.
So far we've seen the floor. And I believe that with that type of roster... we're gonna see the floor more often than the ceiling. Let's see how far LBJ can take them and how much of a ceiling we'll be able to see in the playoffs.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 14,940
- And1: 5,236
- Joined: Nov 16, 2011
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
He is already the GOAT, and this wouldn't hurt him.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,675
- And1: 3,482
- Joined: Apr 18, 2015
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
For me it doesn’t hurt his legacy, but i do think it gets annoying how Lebron’s fans give him all the credit for carry jobs that he’s done then when he can no longer do it the blame goes right to his teammates.
I think most reasonable posters here acknowledge that Lebron is nearing the end of his prime, but if it’s to the point where he can’t even win the 1st round then well it may be coming faster than we think.
Lebron has come back from 2-1, 3-1s etc before so i’m not going to pretend that the nails are in the Cavs coffin. One other thing though, if Lebron does lost this series that’s one less argument his fans can use against Jordan that he never lost in the 1st round. I don’t think losing in the 1st round is a big deal, nor do i think Lebron deserves some bonus for have never losing that early. Most years he’s faced some pretty mediocre teams.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
- Joao Saraiva
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,036
- And1: 5,844
- Joined: Feb 09, 2011
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
mischievous wrote:Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
For me it doesn’t hurt his legacy, but i do think it gets annoying how Lebron’s fans give him all the credit for carry jobs that he’s done then when he can no longer do it the blame goes right to his teammates.
I think most reasonable posters here acknowledge that Lebron is nearing the end of his prime, but if it’s to the point where he can’t even win the 1st round then well it may be coming faster than we think.
Lebron has come back from 2-1, 3-1s etc before so i’m not going to pretend that the nails are in the Cavs coffin. One other thing though, if Lebron does lost this series that’s one less argument his fans can use against Jordan that he never lost in the 1st round. I don’t think losing in the 1st round is a big deal, nor do i think Lebron deserves some bonus for have never losing that early. Most years he’s faced some pretty mediocre teams.
Losing in the 1st round... record in the finals... that's just some dumb arguments from both sides. Everything needs context and evaluating a single player for only the outcome of the team without looking at why that team outcome happened is just stupid.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
- GSP
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,588
- And1: 14,883
- Joined: Dec 12, 2011
-
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
theyve shot 30.85% from 3 so far in the series.............i mean u gotta think in game 4 they have one of those ridiculous shooting performances in a blowout win that carries over to game 5. No way their shooting right now is gonna stay there
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,385
- And1: 3,836
- Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Still can't get past that 3rd qtr. So much classic LeBron with the long 2's, aimless dribbling and running the same play over and over again. Zero urgency on display. Don't know how it can keep happening
. You'll never see him do this in other qtrs.
![No Way :noway:](./images/smilies/icon_tever.gif)
![No Way :noway:](./images/smilies/icon_tever.gif)
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,675
- And1: 3,482
- Joined: Apr 18, 2015
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
Joao Saraiva wrote:mischievous wrote:Jurassic_Park wrote:If lebron loses this series, having had home court, and being a vegas favourite of 1.09 odds to win the series ($100 wins $109... $9 profit), is he officially done from ever having a chance at GOAT? This will be a gigantic black mark on the resume, that i think is impossible to overcome.
For me it doesn’t hurt his legacy, but i do think it gets annoying how Lebron’s fans give him all the credit for carry jobs that he’s done then when he can no longer do it the blame goes right to his teammates.
I think most reasonable posters here acknowledge that Lebron is nearing the end of his prime, but if it’s to the point where he can’t even win the 1st round then well it may be coming faster than we think.
Lebron has come back from 2-1, 3-1s etc before so i’m not going to pretend that the nails are in the Cavs coffin. One other thing though, if Lebron does lost this series that’s one less argument his fans can use against Jordan that he never lost in the 1st round. I don’t think losing in the 1st round is a big deal, nor do i think Lebron deserves some bonus for have never losing that early. Most years he’s faced some pretty mediocre teams.
Losing in the 1st round... record in the finals... that's just some dumb arguments from both sides. Everything needs context and evaluating a single player for only the outcome of the team without looking at why that team outcome happened is just stupid.
Can’t say I disagree.
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,675
- And1: 3,482
- Joined: Apr 18, 2015
Re: The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)
I do have to say this one does feel a bit different than other times he was down in a series. I mean he had Wade go off in the back end of that 2012 Indi series that he was down 2-1, and in that same year it took likely the best game of his career from not losing to Boston. Then in 2016, he had Kyrie who balled in some of those games. It’s like who is going to help him this time?