NXT Thread II

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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1621 » by Marcus » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:57 pm

improper wrote:
iMoreland wrote:Hot take: Ricochet is gonna flop. You can make it in NXT on just in ring skill, but he'll be like Apollo Crews once he gets to the main roster.


Ricochet is a hell of a lot better than Crews, though. He's also a much, much, much bigger name. Crews sure as hell wasn't getting a pop like that when he debuted.

I think that, at worst, he's Neville again, and Neville was a solid lower/mid card guy and a very good Cruiserweight champ.


does Ricochet have any semblance of mic skill at all? I've seen a few shoot interviews and he's a different kind of funny where the personality doesn't really match the in-ring. So are there mic skills there hidden behind the great in-ring work?
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1622 » by improper » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:40 pm

Marcus wrote:does Ricochet have any semblance of mic skill at all? I've seen a few shoot interviews and he's a different kind of funny where the personality doesn't really match the in-ring. So are there mic skills there hidden behind the great in-ring work?


I've only ever seen him in Lucha Underground, outside of YouTube vids of his other matches lacking any context other than in-ring action. He didn't talk a whole lot in LU, but when he did, he seemed acceptable. Not good, but not terrible like some guys either.

I think what sets him apart from a guy like Crews, though, is that he bumps and sells like a goddamn champ, and guys love working with people who sell like Ricochet does. He makes everyone look better.

And at any rate, I don't think that Crews flopped specifically because he lacked character, but more because he wasn't kept in NXT long enough to find one. Look at Andrade Almas. If he had gotten called up last year after Wrestlemania, he'd probably be out of WWE right now. A year later, he's entering Smackdown as one of the hottest acts in NXT and the company in general. They kept him in NXT instead of calling him up without a plan and found a way to maximize his potential. Crews just never got that time, and he needed that time much more than a lot of other guys. The same goes for a guy like Corbin who will almost certainly never amount to anything because WWE jumped the gun and called him up long before he was ready. I'm not sure Corbin ever would have been ready, but they certainly didn't go out of their way to help him succeed.

Ricochet, on the other hand, will almost certainly be given the time in NXT to develop his skills outside the ring. I also think that, at worst, he's going to become the face of the cruiserweight division, at least so long as Triple H continues to run 205 Live. Now, maybe you still consider that flopping, but I think that's his worst case scenario.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1623 » by LLJ » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:07 pm

Apparently Vince still really likes Corbin though. And when Vince likes someone...
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1624 » by improper » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:44 pm

LLJ wrote:Apparently Vince still really likes Corbin though. And when Vince likes someone...


Yeah, he'll probably get pushed. But unless Vince has the hard on for Corbin that he has for Reigns, I don't think his pushes will ever amount to much because the audience just clearly doesn't give a crap about him. I mean, they already waffled once with his push by having him fail his MitB cash-in.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1625 » by LLJ » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:52 pm

improper wrote:
LLJ wrote:Apparently Vince still really likes Corbin though. And when Vince likes someone...


Yeah, he'll probably get pushed. But unless Vince has the hard on for Corbin that he has for Reigns, I don't think his pushes will ever amount to much because the audience just clearly doesn't give a crap about him. I mean, they already waffled once with his push by having him fail his MitB cash-in.


Reminding me of Del Rio. One of the most heatless guys ever to have gotten monster pushes. They kept pushing and then waffling on him but they still eventually got him to the top of the heap a number of times despite nobody ever really getting into him.

I was just thinking how RAW just got a bunch of fairly unliked guys to feed to Roman. The inevitable Jinder-Roman feud should be a hilarious test of fan indecision...or apathy. Vince still trying to get Roman over! If Jinder gets cheered over Roman, there is no hope for him.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1626 » by improper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:48 pm

LLJ wrote:Reminding me of Del Rio. One of the most heatless guys ever to have gotten monster pushes. They kept pushing and then waffling on him but they still eventually got him to the top of the heap a number of times despite nobody ever really getting into him.

I was just thinking how RAW just got a bunch of fairly unliked guys to feed to Roman. The inevitable Jinder-Roman feud should be a hilarious test of fan indecision...or apathy. Vince still trying to get Roman over! If Jinder gets cheered over Roman, there is no hope for him.


Reminds me of Sheamus as well. I like Sheamus a lot, but I think he's just not a good top of the card guy. Every time they've tried to push him as a world champ, he's flopped, but he's been absolutely fantastic teaming with Cesaro. Sometimes you just need to find the right role for a guy, and that role isn't always as a main eventer.

The problem is that WWE tends to keep guys like Jinder and Del Rio around who really don't have any good role. Jinder is big and ripped, and that's about all he has going for him. He sucks as a worker and he can't talk. Why they'd even bother keeping him around after he completely and utterly flopped during his main event push just baffles me. He's exactly the type of guy you cut loose, especially when you've got plenty of other big, ripped guys who are both better in the ring and on the mic. Does anyone here think that Lars Sullivan couldn't get called up and do everything that Jinder does, only with a much higher ceiling?

It should have been a massive red flag when Jinder left WWE and proceeded to do nothing with himself other than take a boatload of steroids. He didn't go out and make a major name for himself like McIntyre. He didn't go out and learn to work and develop a fantastic character like EC3. He didn't go and figure out how to cut promos like Lashley. Most guys leave WWE and use it as an opportunity to improve upon their weaknesses and become stars elsewhere. Jinder did none of that.

That said, the fans will probably still cheer Jinder over Roman just to spite Vince, or they'll just crap all over the feud like they did Brock/Reigns.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1627 » by LLJ » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:22 pm

The WWE of late seem to have an obsession with pushing to the moon guys whom they deem "homegrown" or wrestlers who were nothing or had no reputation before they got to the WWE. Roman is an example, Jinder is another. With the exception of AJ (who while is extremely respected by Vince, is still not booked as a top 2 guy), most of the indie favorites tend to be less pushed (or rather, not pushed as the WWE TOP guys) than what the WWE deem as "their" guys.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1628 » by Dominator83 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:56 pm

LLJ wrote:The WWE of late seem to have an obsession with pushing to the moon guys whom they deem "homegrown" or wrestlers who were nothing or had no reputation before they got to the WWE. Roman is an example, Jinder is another. With the exception of AJ (who while is extremely respected by Vince, is still not booked as a top 2 guy), most of the indie favorites tend to be less pushed (or rather, not pushed as the WWE TOP guys) than what the WWE deem as "their" guys.

AJ has been the top guy on the Blue brand for a while now.

But im sure form Vinces point of view, you have to be on RAW in order to be in the top 10 :lol:
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1629 » by improper » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:37 am

Is it just me, or is Ciampa really missing an opportunity by not coming to the ring dressed like Kratos?
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1630 » by improper » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:41 am

Also, how many lives would Vince McMahon sacrifice for Roman Reigns to get the reaction Johnny Gargano got at Takeover: New Orleans?

I think billions.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1631 » by LLJ » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:19 pm

Dominater wrote:
LLJ wrote:The WWE of late seem to have an obsession with pushing to the moon guys whom they deem "homegrown" or wrestlers who were nothing or had no reputation before they got to the WWE. Roman is an example, Jinder is another. With the exception of AJ (who while is extremely respected by Vince, is still not booked as a top 2 guy), most of the indie favorites tend to be less pushed (or rather, not pushed as the WWE TOP guys) than what the WWE deem as "their" guys.

AJ has been the top guy on the Blue brand for a while now.

But im sure form Vinces point of view, you have to be on RAW in order to be in the top 10 :lol:


AJ is Smackdown, but he's booked firmly below Roman and Brock (he's done the job for both), so he's the #3 guy in the WWE. Still great, but Roman is the real face of the WWE in Vince's mind, with Brock as the mega cross promotion star.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1632 » by Dominator83 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:33 pm

LLJ wrote:
Dominater wrote:
LLJ wrote:The WWE of late seem to have an obsession with pushing to the moon guys whom they deem "homegrown" or wrestlers who were nothing or had no reputation before they got to the WWE. Roman is an example, Jinder is another. With the exception of AJ (who while is extremely respected by Vince, is still not booked as a top 2 guy), most of the indie favorites tend to be less pushed (or rather, not pushed as the WWE TOP guys) than what the WWE deem as "their" guys.

AJ has been the top guy on the Blue brand for a while now.

But im sure form Vinces point of view, you have to be on RAW in order to be in the top 10 :lol:


AJ is Smackdown, but he's booked firmly below Roman and Brock (he's done the job for both), so he's the #3 guy in the WWE. Still great, but Roman is the real face of the WWE in Vince's mind, with Brock as the mega cross promotion star.

Even #3 overall and #1 on a brand is still an amazing feat considering that Vince generally doesn't give that type of push to stars that were built elsewhere. Even in the case of guys like Benoit, Guerrero, Booker T, they didn't get main event pushes until they were there a few years, to where Vince had probably felt that he elevated those guys to main event status by that point
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1633 » by LLJ » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:55 pm

With AJ time is short, he's in his 40s now and came to the WWE at age 38 (Eddie and Benoit were pushed in their mid 30s) so you have to push him while he can still go. It also helps that AJ is one of the few truly great in-ring performers on the roster. There is some really good talent today, but the main event scene is largely dominated by big power guys right now so AJ is needed. If this were the mid 2000s with more smaller athletic guys like HBK, Jericho, Eddie and Benoit around, AJ may have been lost in the shuffle a bit more.

To a more obvious degree, Bryan was also a guy the WWE only reluctantly pushed because he was seen as an indie darling and not "their" guy.

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It's funny looking at the new Smackdown banner. 4 out of 6 wrestlers here largely made their names and reputations outside of the WWE. Smackdown is basically the "indie darling brand", the "B" brand in Vince's eyes.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1634 » by improper » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:27 pm

Remember, though, that WWE didn't really want to push Styles the way they did. They had him job to Jericho at Wrestlemania in year one. Thing is, he just kept getting huge pops so they basically had to push him. No doubt Vince just wanted to use him as an example of what happens when you have the gall to make your name somewhere else.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1635 » by LLJ » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:32 pm

They signed AJ for a lot of money. I think there was always an intention to push him hard. Maybe not the face of a brand, but certainly a guy in the title picture a lot.

Also, AJ was cooling off significantly about 6 months after his hot debut (because of bad booking; they had him lose way too many feuds in a row through Spring and Summer of 2016) and then turned him heel to revive him. So there was certainly a dedicated interest in him succeeding.

There was also a period when guys were getting injured and/or slowly on their way out (Jericho and Cena) and AJ was the only guy they could count on, which sort of got him in Vince's good books.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1636 » by Dominator83 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:40 pm

LLJ wrote:They signed AJ for a lot of money. I think there was always an intention to push him hard. Maybe not the face of a brand, but certainly a guy in the title picture a lot.

Also, AJ was cooling off significantly about 6 months after his hot debut (because of bad booking; they had him lose way too many feuds in a row through Spring and Summer of 2016) and then turned him heel to revive him. So there was certainly a dedicated interest in him succeeding.

There was also a period when guys were getting injured and/or slowly on their way out (Jericho and Cena) and AJ was the only guy they could count on, which sort of got him in Vince's good books.

The clean win as a heel over Cena at SS got him back on track
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1637 » by iMoreland » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:33 pm

improper wrote:Remember, though, that WWE didn't really want to push Styles the way they did. They had him job to Jericho at Wrestlemania in year one. Thing is, he just kept getting huge pops so they basically had to push him. No doubt Vince just wanted to use him as an example of what happens when you have the gall to make your name somewhere else.

Lol at this whole post
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1638 » by improper » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:29 pm

iMoreland wrote:
improper wrote:Remember, though, that WWE didn't really want to push Styles the way they did. They had him job to Jericho at Wrestlemania in year one. Thing is, he just kept getting huge pops so they basically had to push him. No doubt Vince just wanted to use him as an example of what happens when you have the gall to make your name somewhere else.

Lol at this whole post


There were reports shortly after Styles debuted that Vince was shocked at the response he got. I don't think Vince ever expected to push him like he did.
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1639 » by iMoreland » Tue May 8, 2018 11:22 pm

WWE signed Keith Lee apparently
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Re: NXT Thread II 

Post#1640 » by improper » Wed May 9, 2018 11:08 pm

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