ECSF: P1 | (2) Boston Celtics vs Philadelphia 76ers (3) | BOS 1-0

[SmartWentCrazy]

Probably in the 50-60 range, but the reality is the gap between 30 and 50 is much smaller than the gap between 30 and 10.

The reality is that Hayward was the 21st best player per all NBA votes last year. Saric wont come close to receiving any. Dismissing this is comical.

Again a popularity vote. And again, Hawyard was the lone offensive option on the Jazz. Two totally different situations.

@ all NBA being a popularity vote.

[ITYSL]

Well, if Hayward isn't being overvalued here then Saric is being undervalued. Nobody is saying they are equally as good, but as CoreyGallagher pointed out Saric is further along in his development than Hayward was at this point in his career.

It seems Celtics fans would rather use the "you're a homer!" argument than to discuss facts.

That has almost nothing to do with the fact that no Celtics fan said Hayward was a transcendent talent. A Celtics fan said he was top 15-20 last season and provided links. You ultimately replied with a strawman argument. Pretty simple.

I do think Saric is underrated fwiw

Not how the discussion went down. The overarching theme has been whether or not Saric being 'a little worse' than Hayward is a laughable statement. Based on the responses Hayward is either being overrated or Saric is being underrated.

Dude, stop trying to wriggle out of it. I quoted your post where you wrote that Celtics fans are regarding Hayward as a transcendent talent. No Celtics fan said that. That's textbook strawman argument. Deal with it.

And you're right, Celtics fans and fans of all teams pull this strawman argument all the time, mischaracterizing how fans of other teams regard their players, ie. Sixers fans think Embiid is as good as Kareem. It doesn't mean you didn't do it. You did.

Not even sure why I'm posting in this thread, because the BOS-MIL series is far from over.

[PierceFan4ever]

Most on ESPN, CBS, Nba.com had the sixers not making the playoffs this year. The media have no idea about the Sisers... Nice try...

And that’s relevant how? He asked for links I gave him it. Yeah man nobody knows anything about the Sixers. Saric > Hayward Simmons = Magic Embiid = Kareem. We get it Sixers fans

Uhh what? Did I say that stuff about Simmons and Magic, and Embiid and Kareem. If you actually compare numbers, Simmons' are near identical to Magic's and his playoff numbers for the first round are just as good as a rookie. It remains to be seen if he'll have the same impact, but at the moment I wouldn't put it past him. He's that good Embiid = Kareem, is something that time will tell, but Embiid has that potential...

Back to relavancy, you're the one who brought it up. I was saying that the media stick their noses so far up the Cavs/Warriors/Lakers?Celtics asses, they don't have any knowledge of other teams. Us Sixers fans were saying that we would make the playoffs and some even had them winning 50 games. Most of the media thought, barely make playoffs, and a lot thought they would be in the lottery again. It is relavant because the media can barely figure out which is a good team with potential, let alone rank a player. DPOY, and the all-nba list is often a popularity contest. The more exposure you get on hot take shows like first take/undisputed/the herd the better chance you have in making one of those lists. Indy blogs/news sites have actual analysis, but 95% of mainstream media don't know **** about baskteball...

Ranking players in the summer based on what they did during the season is a lot more easier to make arguments than guessing what teams will achieve, overachieve, or underachieve. Stop acting like the media doesn’t respect the Sixers when that’s the only team they’ve been talking about for months. Celtics were projected to win 37 games after Hayward broke his ankle but you don’t see me using that as an agenda.

[PierceFan4ever]

Well, if Hayward isn't being overvalued here then Saric is being undervalued. Nobody is saying they are equally as good, but as CoreyGallagher pointed out Saric is further along in his development than Hayward was at this point in his career.

It seems Celtics fans would rather use the "you're a homer!" argument than to discuss facts.

That has almost nothing to do with the fact that no Celtics fan said Hayward was a transcendent talent. A Celtics fan said he was top 15-20 last season and provided links. You ultimately replied with a strawman argument. Pretty simple.

I do think Saric is underrated fwiw

Not how the discussion went down. The overarching theme has been whether or not Saric being 'a little worse' than Hayward is a laughable statement. Based on the responses Hayward is either being overrated or Saric is being underrated.

It is laughable because Saric is not there as of yet and many people have called you out for being extremely bias #1 Dario fan

[MR28]

Trust the process

Nice mask lmfao.

[CoreyGallagher]

ie. Sixers fans think Embiid is as good as Kareem. It doesn't mean you didn't do it. You did.

Who are these Sixers' fans? The comparison has always been to Olajuwon, who he's not as good as, but we're hoping he continues to develop similarly as.

The only instances that he's been compared to Kareem is when the 76ers are compared to the 'Showtime Lakers' by talking heads, and solely because of Simmons being compared to Magic, Embiid's correlated to Kareem because he was the Lakers' big man then. Nobody I'm aware of has directly compared them on their own, tho.

[eyeatoma]

The reality is that Hayward was the 21st best player per all NBA votes last year. Saric wont come close to receiving any. Dismissing this is comical.

Again a popularity vote. And again, Hawyard was the lone offensive option on the Jazz. Two totally different situations.

@ all NBA being a popularity vote.

Have you ever heard about bias in the media? Get your head out of the clouds man...

[GeorgeMarcus]

That has almost nothing to do with the fact that no Celtics fan said Hayward was a transcendent talent. A Celtics fan said he was top 15-20 last season and provided links. You ultimately replied with a strawman argument. Pretty simple.

I do think Saric is underrated fwiw

Not how the discussion went down. The overarching theme has been whether or not Saric being 'a little worse' than Hayward is a laughable statement. Based on the responses Hayward is either being overrated or Saric is being underrated.

Dude, stop trying to wriggle out of it. I quoted your post where you wrote that Celtics fans are regarding Hayward as a transcendent talent. No Celtics fan said that. That's textbook strawman argument. Deal with it.

And you're right, Celtics fans and fans of all teams pull this strawman argument all the time, mischaracterizing how fans of other teams regard their players, ie. Sixers fans think Embiid is as good as Kareem. It doesn't mean you didn't do it. You did.

Not even sure why I'm posting in this thread, because the BOS-MIL series is far from over.

I'm not wriggling out of ****. I said Celtics fans are acting like Hayward is a transcendent talent based on their reactions. That wasn't my argument, it was one comment I made amidst a much larger conversation. I even gave PearceFan the opportunity to rebut my rankings, which he didn't. Just more "homer!" comments.

[eyeatoma]

And that’s relevant how? He asked for links I gave him it. Yeah man nobody knows anything about the Sixers. Saric > Hayward Simmons = Magic Embiid = Kareem. We get it Sixers fans

Uhh what? Did I say that stuff about Simmons and Magic, and Embiid and Kareem. If you actually compare numbers, Simmons' are near identical to Magic's and his playoff numbers for the first round are just as good as a rookie. It remains to be seen if he'll have the same impact, but at the moment I wouldn't put it past him. He's that good Embiid = Kareem, is something that time will tell, but Embiid has that potential...

Back to relavancy, you're the one who brought it up. I was saying that the media stick their noses so far up the Cavs/Warriors/Lakers?Celtics asses, they don't have any knowledge of other teams. Us Sixers fans were saying that we would make the playoffs and some even had them winning 50 games. Most of the media thought, barely make playoffs, and a lot thought they would be in the lottery again. It is relavant because the media can barely figure out which is a good team with potential, let alone rank a player. DPOY, and the all-nba list is often a popularity contest. The more exposure you get on hot take shows like first take/undisputed/the herd the better chance you have in making one of those lists. Indy blogs/news sites have actual analysis, but 95% of mainstream media don't know **** about baskteball...

Ranking players in the summer based on what they did during the season is a lot more easier to make arguments than guessing what teams will achieve, overachieve, or underachieve. Stop acting like the media doesn’t respect the Sixers when that’s the only team they’ve been talking about for months. Celtics were projected to win 37 games after Hayward broke his ankle but you don’t see me using that as an agenda.

Um, nice try... the media only recognized the sixers during their run... Before that, they all thought we were first rounder fodder at best...

[SmartWentCrazy]

Again a popularity vote. And again, Hawyard was the lone offensive option on the Jazz. Two totally different situations.

@ all NBA being a popularity vote.

Have you ever heard about bias in the media? Get your head out of the clouds man...

Yikes. Im gunna tap out, theres no talking logic with you.

For the record, the multiple media members didn't vote Hayward as all-NBA because of biases. One or two? Maybe. But that many? Nah. Take of the Sixers tinted glasses and try to be objective.

[GeorgeMarcus]

That has almost nothing to do with the fact that no Celtics fan said Hayward was a transcendent talent. A Celtics fan said he was top 15-20 last season and provided links. You ultimately replied with a strawman argument. Pretty simple.

I do think Saric is underrated fwiw

Not how the discussion went down. The overarching theme has been whether or not Saric being 'a little worse' than Hayward is a laughable statement. Based on the responses Hayward is either being overrated or Saric is being underrated.

It is laughable because Saric is not there as of yet and many people have called you out for being extremely bias #1 Dario fan

Lol, no they haven't. No one has ever said that about me outside of Boston fans (you) that I've argued with. Rather than rebut the rankings I laid out, you chose to rely on unfounded ad hominem attacks.

2nd round should be fun.

[eyeatoma]

Can we please stop overrating Dario Saric? Im a guy whos said he has all-star potential and that its possible that he could one day put up numbers similar to present day Blake Griffin in the right system as the top option.

But today? To call him a little worse than Hayward? Laughable take. Hes worlds behind Hayward as a player. Lets be serious now.

Why is he "world's behind Hayward"...

Hayward was the number one option and put up borderline all-star numbers...

He is a decent passer, and good rebounder for his position. Hayward is an excellent driver, but isn't particularly good finishing in traffic (he's he does dunk pretty well), but his body control is average. He is also a good 3 point shooter, but nothing spectacular.

Saric, is a feisty rebounder (better than Hawyard at the moment). He is definitely less athletic, and is plodding actually, He has a fantastic bball IQ, is a as good a defender as Hayward, and is an equal if not slighltly better 3 point shooter (see volume). He is an underrated passer. Passing was actually his calling card, and when the offense runs through he, he's good. The only think Hayward has on him, is more usage and minutes, and better athleticism. How is he world's better?

Saric was quite impressive for a rookie last year when Embiid went down.

Hayward won a playoff series, largely by himself. He averaged 24-7-3 on 47/45/96 shooting. His per game averages dont do it justice, either, as theyre biased downward by a game where he got hurt and played 9 minutes.

Dont tell me Rudy Gobert led them to that victory, either. He missed 3 games and was hobbled for the 4 others, playing 107 minutes total.

Talk to me when Saric is capable of doing that— he may be one day but he certainly cannot now.

A playoff series? Dude come on that's 4 games... He's a good player, a borderline all-star, but you can't say that playoff numbers equate to regular season performance.

Yes there is a hope that he can reproduce similar number to that, when being the man (he won't be on a stacked Celtics team). In fact I'd say that Saric and Hawyard will be puttnig up similar numbers next year, if LeBron doesn't come to Philly. Hayward doesn't get enough usage to average 20 ppg again on that celtics team. Neither will Saric.

[cl2117]

Everyone in this thread is embarrassing and most of you are wrong. This series is going to be the worst. I hate when you can't even go into a thread because of the stupidity radiating off of it.

[PierceFan4ever]

Not how the discussion went down. The overarching theme has been whether or not Saric being 'a little worse' than Hayward is a laughable statement. Based on the responses Hayward is either being overrated or Saric is being underrated.

It is laughable because Saric is not there as of yet and many people have called you out for being extremely bias #1 Dario fan

Lol, no they haven't. No one has ever said that about me outside of Boston fans (you) that I've argued with. Rather than rebut the rankings I laid out, you chose to rely on unfounded ad hominem attacks.

2nd round should be fun.

Idk man I’ve seen 2 Sixers fan already agree with me that it’s laughable to think that Saric is close to Hayward. And there’s another poster who was surprised to see that this was actually a discussion. Also another called you a troll. So yeah. I don’t need to put my ranking up because I have Hayward coming into the year top 20 as well. Your argument was over a long time ago buddy. Perhaps we can have another debate that isn’t laughable for another time

[PierceFan4ever]

Uhh what? Did I say that stuff about Simmons and Magic, and Embiid and Kareem. If you actually compare numbers, Simmons' are near identical to Magic's and his playoff numbers for the first round are just as good as a rookie. It remains to be seen if he'll have the same impact, but at the moment I wouldn't put it past him. He's that good Embiid = Kareem, is something that time will tell, but Embiid has that potential...

Back to relavancy, you're the one who brought it up. I was saying that the media stick their noses so far up the Cavs/Warriors/Lakers?Celtics asses, they don't have any knowledge of other teams. Us Sixers fans were saying that we would make the playoffs and some even had them winning 50 games. Most of the media thought, barely make playoffs, and a lot thought they would be in the lottery again. It is relavant because the media can barely figure out which is a good team with potential, let alone rank a player. DPOY, and the all-nba list is often a popularity contest. The more exposure you get on hot take shows like first take/undisputed/the herd the better chance you have in making one of those lists. Indy blogs/news sites have actual analysis, but 95% of mainstream media don't know **** about baskteball...

Ranking players in the summer based on what they did during the season is a lot more easier to make arguments than guessing what teams will achieve, overachieve, or underachieve. Stop acting like the media doesn’t respect the Sixers when that’s the only team they’ve been talking about for months. Celtics were projected to win 37 games after Hayward broke his ankle but you don’t see me using that as an agenda.

Um, nice try... the media only recognized the sixers during their run... Before that, they all thought we were first rounder fodder at best...

Is there anything wrong with that? Sixers weren’t that good before their run. That time there was a healthy Celtics team aside from Hayward, raptors were playing well, Lebron is Lebron. The Sixers were still being talked about whether it was Embiid, Simmons, or Fultz in a negative way. I don’t know which tv station you are watching.

[XtremeDunkz]

Hayward > Saric

Assuming he regains his form following the injury.

But Hayward does get overhyped by Boston. He was always a very good player. But he is no Paul Pierce, nor is he Ray Allen.

[ric munchn]

You still don't have a front court. Horford turns 32 in June and you got great play out of Baynes. You have a 2.9% chance to get a two or three pick in this year's draft. Not likely, but possible. More problematic, Horford's $30 mil doesn't come off the books until after the 2019-2020 season. If Embiid stays healthy, who defends him? Yes, Embiid turns the ball over more than he should, but he's a good passer and he makes more than 75% of his free throws - and he's a magnet for drawing fouls.

It’s all nonsense at this point. You don’t know what either Team will look like next year let alone 3 years from now. Maybe we will have a good big, maybe embiid will be hurt, maybe kyrie and Hayward never get healthy and play well, maybe LeBron goes to philly. This year sixers will win if the celts make it. Next year I’ll predict next year. Both have very bright futures and are set up to be good, we will see how many titles if any either of them win. Neither team is set as well as OKC was five years ago and look at them now.

What's with you? I'm not criticizing your players. I believe Horford is a very good player, but he's overpaid at $30 mil. Hayward is an excellent player. But is he worth $31 mil? Between the two of them, they eat up 55% of next year's cap.

But the bigger picture, you don't have a big. Horford is a savvy, extremely skilled stretch-4. He averages slightly more than seven rebounds per game and one block.

Your payroll's close to the cap at $107 mil. You're going to have to pay Baynes, who's an unrestricted free agent, $10 mil after the season he's had. Smart will get a similar payday to Robert Covington - $10-$15 mil/year. You'll have to match or lose him. And unless you get the Lakers pick - a 2.9% chance - you'll be drafting 27 this year. There are some good center prospects lower in the draft, but most of the better ones are in the top 10.

Next season will be a test. I have no doubt that you're loaded at two and three and have an all-star caliber point guard. But Ainge has rolled the dice and you'll have to play small ball. You're locked in. At least that's how I see it. Danny has done it before - pulled a rabbit out of the hat - and if anyone can win with a small lineup it's Brad Stevens.

If you play the Sixers, it's going to give a lot of insight into both teams' strengths and weaknesses. It will essentially be one of the best if not best small-ball teams against potentially the best tall-ball team.

Here's your payroll - your best seven players without a center:

Hayward: $31 mil
Horford: $30 mil
Kyrie: $20 mil
Three-player total: $81 mil

Tatum, Morris, Jaylen Brown & Rozier: $20 mil.

Seven-player total: $101 mil

The arithmetic is what it is.

Why do you think I’m saying you are criticizing anything? I’m just saying projecting basketball futures is a guess at best. Trades, injuries, draft picks, players improving and declining is extremely fluid. Look at the Celtics last year to this year. It’s a totally different team. I’m sure the same thing won’t happen this year but every year is different.Cant they just go over the cap? The tickets are among he most expensive in the league and they sell out every game. All I was saying is I don’t wanna argue about who will be Better next year because it’s so unpredictable

[Edrees]

Hayward was a fringe top 30 player pre-injury, let's not go overboard here.

Most on Espn, nba.com, cbs all had Hayward in their top 20. Some had him as high as 15 so yeah no he’s not top 30. Maybe to Sixers fans who think each player on the Celtics is top 30 or worse.

Most on ESPN, CBS, Nba.com had the sixers not making the playoffs this year. The media have no idea about the Sixers... Nice try...

I think you are mis-characterizing why people had them out of the playoffs. What most people agreed on is a fully healthy sixers team would make the playoffs, however as a betting man you wouldn't bet on them to be healthy before the season started. If you could guarantee me both simmons (who missed a whole year) and embiid were as healthy are they were, i'd have also been super confident they'd make the playoffs before the year. Nobody is surprised that a HEALTHY sixers team made the playoffs.

Most didn't expect even a healthy sixers team to get the 3rd seed, but with them being that healthy, making the playoffs wasn't a surprise.

[London2Boston]

Hayward and Saric are fairly close tbf.

That said, Hayward has only started running again last week I think.

[LloydFree]

1. Embiid
2. Simmons
3. Irving
4. Horford
5. Hayward
6. Brown
7. Covington
8. Tatum
9. Rozier
10. Ilyasova