The "Blow it all up and start over" Trade

[ByeByeDre]

Blazers get:

Drummond
Griffin

Pistons get:

Turner
Leonard
Harkless
Collins
Nurkic
First round draft picks in 2020, 2022, 2024

Why?

For Detroit, very simple. Every contract expires in 2020 or earlier, along with everyone on their team. Plus, the current players can hopefully play well and be parlayed into more draft picks. This trade can be done anytime (offseason or before next deadline), but the sooner the better!

For Portland, you now have Damian, CJ, Blake and Drummond - that's the second best top four in the league. It's a legitimate chance to jump into the top three. Fill in the cracks and you are a championship contender. Nurkic is the best player you are giving up, but Davis is destroying him in the playoffs, and the truth is he's not THAT good.

Who says no?

[Det313Pound]

Gonna need those picks starting with this year. But if SVG is here, it ain't happening

[Wallace_Wallace]

Giving our draft history and how we treat our rookies, I would not take that deal. Nurkic is cool and all, but I wouldn't take him over Drummond or Griffin. Leonard and Harkless have nice faces, but they sucked most of the time. Turner still has that big contract.

If I would blow it up and start over, I'd do something along the lines of Reggie Jackson for DeMarre Carroll, Blake Griffin for Enes Kanter (assuming he picks up PO). Both contracts expire the end of next season. Then be cheap until someone wants to attach an asset with a bad contract then we jump on it.

[LaSheed]

Eh maybe a package deal of McCollum and Blake being involved.

[ElectricMayhem]

What are Portland's cap numbers after a trade like this?

[DBC10]

I think CJ can be had. He had a relative regression year compared to last year no? And then their entire bench pieces are all extremely cap heavy with little production

[vege]

I think CJ can be had. He had a relative regression year compared to last year no? And then their entire bench pieces are all extremely cap heavy with little production

We have 3 expirings who also happen to be an excellent fit for Portland in Bullock, Ish and SJ, and Kennard would be a great replacement for CJ. The problem is, it's extremelly difficult to match salaries with CJ.

I also think he can be had, they're about to be swept by NO and they'll have to go deep into the LT to maintain a team who was swept into the first round, not gonna happen. Either CJ or Nurkic are gone imo.

I don't know. Leuer, Luke, SJ and Ish for CJ?

Andre Drummond / Blake Griffin / Eric Moreland
Blake Griffin /
Reggie Bullock /
CJ McCollum / Langston Galloway
Reggie Jackson / CJ McCollum / Dwight Buycks

We would need a big man and a couple of wingers and we would only have the MLE and Boban's TPE. Gores would have to be willing to pay the LT and it wouldn't be cheap though. If we could somehow get Tolliver and Hezonjia we could be good.

[Snakebites]

Giving our draft history and how we treat our rookies, I would not take that deal. Nurkic is cool and all, but I wouldn't take him over Drummond or Griffin. Leonard and Harkless have nice faces, but they sucked most of the time. Turner still has that big contract.

If I would blow it up and start over, I'd do something along the lines of Reggie Jackson for DeMarre Carroll, Blake Griffin for Enes Kanter (assuming he picks up PO). Both contracts expire the end of next season. Then be cheap until someone wants to attach an asset with a bad contract then we jump on it.

If our draft history and how we treat rookies doesn't change, there's really no point in making any trades because our franchise is doomed.

I usually look at these moves assuming the management will change soon (which I actually think it very well could).

[ByeByeDre]

If our draft history and how we treat rookies doesn't change, there's really no point in making any trades because our franchise is doomed.

I usually look at these moves assuming the management will change soon (which I actually think it very well could).

This. I’m assuming someone else besides SVG executes this trade

[Crymson]

Andre Drummond / Blake Griffin / Eric Moreland

No team with $60 million invested in a Griffin/Drummond frontcourt will be particularly successful.

[theBigLip]

We should have blown it up at the trade deadline, instead, we did the opposite. At this point, I think we need to do at least one season with a healthy Reggie, Blake and Andre. I'm sure that's not what most of us want to hear, but it's what Gores/SVG rolled the dice on so might as well see if it can work, at least try it for one season. But if we are not a top 4 team in the East by trade deadline next Feb? Bring lots of dynamite and blow it up big time.

[ByeByeDre]

We should have blown it up at the trade deadline, instead, we did the opposite. At this point, I think we need to do at least one season with a healthy Reggie, Blake and Andre. I'm sure that's not what most of us want to hear, but it's what Gores/SVG rolled the dice on so might as well see if it can work, at least try it for one season. But if we are not a top 4 team in the East by trade deadline next Feb? Bring lots of dynamite and blow it up big time.

I'm good with that, with a couple of add-ons.

First, under no circumstances does Stan sign anyone longer than 2020. Two year contracts only.

Second, the decision to ride it out or blow it up is made right around New Year's Day. That way, we can fire Stan and give the next GM 4-6 weeks to entertain offers for Dre and Griffin.

[theBigLip]

We should have blown it up at the trade deadline, instead, we did the opposite. At this point, I think we need to do at least one season with a healthy Reggie, Blake and Andre. I'm sure that's not what most of us want to hear, but it's what Gores/SVG rolled the dice on so might as well see if it can work, at least try it for one season. But if we are not a top 4 team in the East by trade deadline next Feb? Bring lots of dynamite and blow it up big time.

I'm good with that, with a couple of add-ons.

First, under no circumstances does Stan sign anyone longer than 2020. Two year contracts only.

Second, the decision to ride it out or blow it up is made right around New Year's Day. That way, we can fire Stan and give the next GM 4-6 weeks to entertain offers for Dre and Griffin.

Those both sound like good suggestions.

[vege]

First, under no circumstances does Stan sign anyone longer than 2020. Two year contracts only.

I think this is terrible.

We signed Bullock to a 2 years deal and he is already worth a lot more than his contract. So next season he is a 2.5 million expiring and we do not have his bird rights, so we'll either have to trade him or probably lose him for nothing the next season, since we are royally **** due to our cap situation.

If Bullock was signed to a 3 years deal, even if the 3rd year was fully unguaranteed or a team option, we could have his bird rights and would be able to retain him a lot easier.

Same thing goes to Tolliver. We signed him using our BAE, which is a binary exception. Usually players sign for 2 years, since we do not have this exception next season, we only have it 2 years after we use it. We only signed him to a 1 year deal. So in order to bring him back, we'll have to use our MLE, which is our only resource other than Boban's TPE.

Utah signed a crapload of free agents this offseason.

Thabo Sefolosha, as Tolliver, was a risk sign, since he is old. They signed him to a 2 years deal, with the 2nd year being unguaranteed. So if Utah wants him back, he will be back, if they don't want, he is gone. Those contracts are also great trade chip, they actually work better than raw cap space for trade purposes.

Jonas Jerebko and Ekpe Udoh were the same situation. They both signed 2 years deals with 2nd year being unguaranteed.

Royce O'Neale was an absolute steal for Utah. They signed him to a 3 years deal, all years unguaranteed and after those 3 years are done, he is a RFA with a QO... If he is thrash, they just cut him, if he works, as he did, they have him for cheap, for 2 more years, and after that they can still decide if they want to keep him or not, period.

We signed Bullock to a 2 years deal, with 2nd year being a team option, that's not terrible, but in his case, we should have signed to a 3 years deal, not 2, and Tolliver to a 2 years deal, with 2nd year being unguaranteed, hell, even a player option on Tolliver's case would be better, he would be very likely to opt out but still we could ask him to opt in and pay him again the next season.

SVG has been a disaster in Free Agency. My intention was to say, we should sign players to longer contracts but we should have control over those contracts, not 3 years guaranteed deals like we did with Galloway for example, but in fact, SVG should be forbidden to sign anyone in free agency. Not even 1 year deals.

[ByeByeDre]

First, under no circumstances does Stan sign anyone longer than 2020. Two year contracts only.

I think this is terrible.

We signed Bullock to a 2 years deal and he is already worth a lot more than his contract. So next season he is a 2.5 million expiring and we do not have his bird rights, so we'll either have to trade him or probably lose him for nothing the next season, since we are royally **** due to our cap situation.

If Bullock was signed to a 3 years deal, even if the 3rd year was fully unguaranteed or a team option, we could have his bird rights and would be able to retain him a lot easier.

Same thing goes to Tolliver. We signed him using our BAE, which is a binary exception. Usually players sign for 2 years, since we do not have this exception next season, we only have it 2 years after we use it. We only signed him to a 1 year deal. So in order to bring him back, we'll have to use our MLE, which is our only resource other than Boban's TPE.

Utah signed a crapload of free agents this offseason.

Thabo Sefolosha, as Tolliver, was a risk sign, since he is old. They signed him to a 2 years deal, with the 2nd year being unguaranteed. So if Utah wants him back, he will be back, if they don't want, he is gone. Those contracts are also great trade chip, they actually work better than raw cap space for trade purposes.

Jonas Jerebko and Ekpe Udoh were the same situation. They both signed 2 years deals with 2nd year being unguaranteed.

Royce O'Neale was an absolute steal for Utah. They signed him to a 3 years deal, all years unguaranteed and after those 3 years are done, he is a RFA with a QO... If he is thrash, they just cut him, if he works, as he did, they have him for cheap, for 2 more years, and after that they can still decide if they want to keep him or not, period.

We signed Bullock to a 2 years deal, with 2nd year being a team option, that's not terrible, but in his case, we should have signed to a 3 years deal, not 2, and Tolliver to a 2 years deal, with 2nd year being unguaranteed, hell, even a player option on Tolliver's case would be better, he would be very likely to opt out but still we could ask him to opt in and pay him again the next season.

SVG has been a disaster in Free Agency. My intention was to say, we should sign players to longer contracts but we should have control over those contracts, not 3 years guaranteed deals like we did with Galloway for example, but in fact, SVG should be forbidden to sign anyone in free agency. Not even 1 year deals.

You stated that this is terrible, then pretty much agreed with my post. 2020 is a two year deal. EVERY CONTRACT WE HAVE EXCEPT FOR OUR TWO BEST PLAYERS EXPIRES THEN! Want to put a third, non-guaranteed year on the end? No problem, go crazy.

[vege]

First, under no circumstances does Stan sign anyone longer than 2020. Two year contracts only.

I think this is terrible.

We signed Bullock to a 2 years deal and he is already worth a lot more than his contract. So next season he is a 2.5 million expiring and we do not have his bird rights, so we'll either have to trade him or probably lose him for nothing the next season, since we are royally **** due to our cap situation.

If Bullock was signed to a 3 years deal, even if the 3rd year was fully unguaranteed or a team option, we could have his bird rights and would be able to retain him a lot easier.

Same thing goes to Tolliver. We signed him using our BAE, which is a binary exception. Usually players sign for 2 years, since we do not have this exception next season, we only have it 2 years after we use it. We only signed him to a 1 year deal. So in order to bring him back, we'll have to use our MLE, which is our only resource other than Boban's TPE.

Utah signed a crapload of free agents this offseason.

Thabo Sefolosha, as Tolliver, was a risk sign, since he is old. They signed him to a 2 years deal, with the 2nd year being unguaranteed. So if Utah wants him back, he will be back, if they don't want, he is gone. Those contracts are also great trade chip, they actually work better than raw cap space for trade purposes.

Jonas Jerebko and Ekpe Udoh were the same situation. They both signed 2 years deals with 2nd year being unguaranteed.

Royce O'Neale was an absolute steal for Utah. They signed him to a 3 years deal, all years unguaranteed and after those 3 years are done, he is a RFA with a QO... If he is thrash, they just cut him, if he works, as he did, they have him for cheap, for 2 more years, and after that they can still decide if they want to keep him or not, period.

We signed Bullock to a 2 years deal, with 2nd year being a team option, that's not terrible, but in his case, we should have signed to a 3 years deal, not 2, and Tolliver to a 2 years deal, with 2nd year being unguaranteed, hell, even a player option on Tolliver's case would be better, he would be very likely to opt out but still we could ask him to opt in and pay him again the next season.

SVG has been a disaster in Free Agency. My intention was to say, we should sign players to longer contracts but we should have control over those contracts, not 3 years guaranteed deals like we did with Galloway for example, but in fact, SVG should be forbidden to sign anyone in free agency. Not even 1 year deals.

You stated that this is terrible, then pretty much agreed with my post. 2020 is a two year deal. EVERY CONTRACT WE HAVE EXCEPT FOR OUR TWO BEST PLAYERS EXPIRES THEN! Want to put a third, non-guaranteed year on the end? No problem, go crazy.

I never agreed with your post. 2 year deals are the worst possible deals you can sign players, and I kinda explained why.

What I said is, we have been so bad in free agency, that we shouldn't sign anyone, at all.

[ByeByeDre]

Sign no one then, but Stan can’t help himself. Move Ng on