ECSF: P1 | (1) Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers (4) | TIED 0-0

[Sisqo]

Man can’t believe the refs are having such a huge influence in this series

Blind sheep smh. If the refs didn't make the Raptors shoot 28.9% and 30.0% from three the past two series against Cleveland, this would be the Raptors' third straight trip to the Finals. #Rapsin4 #FredVanGoat #WeTheNBATV

Blind sheep? I don't think anyone here is saying they lost completely because of the refs but anyone who doesn't think the refs favor lebron at times is a moron or bias

And to be clear I'm not talking about only VS the Raptors, just in general.
Gotta cover my ass before people start accusing me of having a victim complex or some **** because I have a different opinion than they do.

[First Step]

lol even Stephen A Smith thought the Cavs/Pacers series was 5 vs 8. He blatantly said there was no way NBA would let Lebron to get eliminated, because of ratings/profit.

The fact that a analyst can say that on live TV so casually about a League...mindboggling. NBA seems so shady to me sometimes

Raptors fans need to stop with the victim complex and the constant complaining. Don't make preconceived excuses for potentially losing before the games even start.

The Cavs' Net Rating against the Raptors these past 2 postseasons was...wait for it...

+16.7

The Raptors were outscored by almost 17 points per 100 possessions across 10 games... That's unbelievably bad. For comparison, the Rockets posted a +8.6 Net Rating this season while the Suns posted a -9.3. The net differential between the best team and the worst team this year was +17.9, which isn't too far off from how much the Raptors lost by. And Raps fans were STILL convinced that the only reason they were losing was "the refs!!" and "the NBA's agenda against Toronto!!"

Your team has homecourt advantage. You're well rested while the Cavs just finished a 7 game bloodbath against the Pacers. This team is utter garbage outside of LeBron and as a whole shouldn't be going anywhere. Your team is complete and healthy. Hill and Love are battling injuries. And Raptors fans have been talking trash and flooding the General Board with how this Raptors team is different and how FVV is the GOAT and the Raptors have the best bench ever and "look at our SRS" and much more...It's put up or shut up time. If the Raptors can't beat THIS Cavs team there's no recovery.

It's true. And if we do beat you, which I think we will, it's the end of the run for your franchise. LeBron be gone, and you guys go back to the lottery with a maxed out payroll.

[infinite11285]

Man can’t believe the refs are having such a huge influence in this series

Blind sheep smh. If the refs didn't make the Raptors shoot 28.9% and 30.0% from three the past two series against Cleveland, this would be the Raptors' third straight trip to the Finals. #Rapsin4 #FredVanGoat #WeTheNBATV

Blind sheep? I don't think anyone here is saying they lost completely because of the refs but anyone who doesn't think the refs favor lebron at times is a moron or bias

In your opinion, how many games have the Raptors lost due to ref bias towards LeBron?

[Sisqo]

Blind sheep smh. If the refs didn't make the Raptors shoot 28.9% and 30.0% from three the past two series against Cleveland, this would be the Raptors' third straight trip to the Finals. #Rapsin4 #FredVanGoat #WeTheNBATV

Blind sheep? I don't think anyone here is saying they lost completely because of the refs but anyone who doesn't think the refs favor lebron at times is a moron or bias

In your opinion, how many games have the Raptors lost due to ref bias towards LeBron?

I don't sit back and keep track of those things because its pointless. I'm not here to debate it I just hate how Lebron fans will deny he gets special treat at times and then say other fans act like victims.


People are quick to say raptors fans have a complex but don't acknowledge that there are people here who go out of there way to be **** and troll those same fans. No wonder some one them go on the attack so easy.

[Naero]

I see many are underpinning the pyramidal theory in their “Raptors over Cavaliers” predictions—that is, assuming that just because the Cavaliers struggled against a lower-rung team in the Pacers that they’ll lose against the Raptors—but it isn’t that simple; it boils down more so to how well the Raptors can actualize their potential, which they don’t have a stellar track record of doing.

The same pyramidal theory was used last year in light of the Cavaliers-Pacers series (Pacers were much more competitive than rememberable), and we remember the upshot of it: the Raptors didn’t even whiff a win as the Pacers did in every game of the prior series. Yes, the Cavaliers first-round scares should be alarming for them, but it doesn’t at all mean the series will be a cinch for the Raptors just because they’re higher-tiered on paper.

Do I feel that the Raptors will get (gentleman-)swept for the third-consecutive year? Not at all; the Cavaliers have clearly regressed, whereas the Raptors, divergently, have improved. But after watching the Wizards series, I’m not ready to conclude that they’ll have moved the needle meteorically enough from getting (gentleman-)swept by the Cavaliers the previous-two years to vanquishing their eliminators in a similar fashion this year—as some seem to be predicting, here.

I think the Raptors will play up to their near-60-win caliber for most of their home games; but if they don’t do so for all of them, the Cavaliers will smell blood—and predate them, accordingly. I have yet to see a Cavaliers-Raptors playoffs game wherein it was still competitive by the second half; and while they obviously shouldn’t be susceptible to the same mountainous margin of loss this year, I’d still find them to be in dire straits if they were tasked to winning any “must-win” game in The Q.

Superstar match-ups will obviously be important—not just whether or not the Trash Bros show up but also how they defend LeBron. They shouldn’t double-team LeBron as they’ve done in previous series; they can endure his scoring bouts (he’s not inexhaustible), but they shouldn’t accentuate his greatest strength in playmaking; otherwise, he’ll find ample help to win this series.

Bottom-line prediction: Cavaliers in 6.

[yoyoboy]

lol even Stephen A Smith thought the Cavs/Pacers series was 5 vs 8. He blatantly said there was no way NBA would let Lebron to get eliminated, because of ratings/profit.

The fact that a analyst can say that on live TV so casually about a League...mindboggling. NBA seems so shady to me sometimes

Raptors fans need to stop with the victim complex and the constant complaining. Don't make preconceived excuses for potentially losing before the games even start.

The Cavs' Net Rating against the Raptors these past 2 postseasons was...wait for it...

+16.7

The Raptors were outscored by almost 17 points per 100 possessions across 10 games... That's unbelievably bad. For comparison, the Rockets posted a +8.6 Net Rating this season while the Suns posted a -9.3. The net differential between the best team and the worst team this year was +17.9, which isn't too far off from how much the Raptors lost by. And Raps fans were STILL convinced that the only reason they were losing was "the refs!!" and "the NBA's agenda against Toronto!!"

Your team has homecourt advantage. You're well rested while the Cavs just finished a 7 game bloodbath against the Pacers. This team is utter garbage outside of LeBron and as a whole shouldn't be going anywhere. Your team is complete and healthy. Hill and Love are battling injuries. And Raptors fans have been talking trash and flooding the General Board with how this Raptors team is different and how FVV is the GOAT and the Raptors have the best bench ever and "look at our SRS" and much more...It's put up or shut up time. If the Raptors can't beat THIS Cavs team there's no recovery.

It's true. And if we do beat you, which I think we will, it's the end of the run for your franchise. LeBron be gone, and you guys go back to the lottery with a maxed out payroll.

To be honest, whether or not we lose this series really doesn't change anything. Cavs fans, the franchise, and even LeBron all know this team is at the end of its run. Even if we win this series, it changes nothing. The franchise went all in on contending in the short term by maxing out the payroll and relying on older players. The city got a title. The team made 3 straight Finals. That's more than most fanbases can say at the least. We already know this team isn't going anywhere with Love as a second option, Lue as a coach, and castoffs from other teams as the bench; it doesn't matter whether we flame out now or lose in the Finals. This team flat out sucks and there are no title expectations here.

Also if/when LeBron leaves we'll believe it or not be slightly under the cap limit next season (still not ideal) and then $30 million under the next year, with a lottery pick coming in this year, so it's not as bad of a situation as it was in 2010 at least. I actually somewhat trust Altman so if he's making the decisions I think he'll do his best to put us in a good position for the long term, but if it's Gilbert meddling around in everything, we're absolutely screwed. Houston, Golden State, Philly, and Boston look to be the top dogs of the league the next few years, so I think laying down and collecting lottery picks is the best solution at the moment.

[JordanBPeterson]

44 people voted Cavs would sweep?

That's harsh.

[RaptorsLife]

I think toronto and Cavs are both peaking this year


Sixers vs Celtics will be happening for next decade in east

Will Raptors make there first finals and go orlando 2009 route and get dismantled in finals but happy to be there

Cavs are in the same position last case. Best case losing to warriors in 4 or 5. Worst case losing next 2 rounds

[yoyoboy]

Ugh - I hate this series and while I appreciate the greatness of Lebron - I wish he wasn't our daddy.

People always mention Kyrie, but an underrated difference this year for this series is the Cavs are missing Channing Frye.

No joke Frye is a certified Raptors killer and has eviscerated Toronto the past two years.

2016 Series:
9.0 ppg on 84.4% TS (63% FG/58% 3P) in 16.4 MPG

2017 Series:
9.0 ppg on 86.2% TS (65% FG/64% 3P) in 13.1 MPG

Those shooting percentages don't even look real. Toronto's bigs have really struggled to defend him because when you play him with LeBron, his quick shot release and the height of it makes him tough to close out on unless you're faceguarding him. Love by comparison is much easier to close out on because it takes him longer to wind up and he's more hesitant, plus he's releasing it a good 4-5 inches below where Frye is.

But if you have your center at the three point line, then you're giving LeBron free lanes to the rim once he gets by his man. So not having him is going to make an enormous difference in this series and makes things considerably easier for Toronto.

[lobosloboslobos]

When Cavs fans try to deny the fact LeBron flops LOL

I don't think many straight up deny it. It's more like defending the fact that he does. Like with Bogdonovic, if you're going to let a player keep a constant two hand push on LeBron, don't get mad when he flops so he can finally get a call for it.

we will gladly accept all the legit fouls defending Lebron if the refs call all the legit offensive fouls on lebron who pushes off illegally every single time he drives into the paint.

deal?

[The-Power]

Cleveland in 6. Obviously Toronto has clearly outperformed the Cavaliers this year, but they still haven't won me completely over. I wouldn't be surprised if they won the series at all but all it takes are some inconsistencies of DeRozan and Lowry – which wouldn't be news – and some solid shooting nights from the Cavaliers' role players (they have been terrible but some guys might very well start shooting better). Assuming that, I'm not betting against LeBron to carry his team another time.

[KyRo23]

When Cavs fans try to deny the fact LeBron flops LOL

I don't think many straight up deny it. It's more like defending the fact that he does. Like with Bogdonovic, if you're going to let a player keep a constant two hand push on LeBron, don't get mad when he flops so he can finally get a call for it.

we will glad accept all the legit fouls defending Lebron if the refs call all the legit offensive fouls on lebron who pushes off illegally every single time he drives into the paint.

deal?

I'd call that a deal. Either it's a LeBron push off or a defensive foul. Sometimes both. I'm looking forward to a 9 hour game!

[pingpongrac]

I get that the Cavs barely got past the Pacers but Toronto didn't exactly look impressive against a mediocre 8th seed Washington team. The Wizards - with all their late season troubles and chemistry issues - were about even with the Raptors outside two fourth quarter collapses. With a healthy Porter that's probably a seven game series also.

Going with Lebron in 6

It goes both ways. If Toronto didn't have a 4th quarter collapse in game 4, they would have won in 5 games.

I also like how you completely ignore the fact that VanVleet missed the first 5 games and the Raptors bench - their biggest advantage in the series and most of the season - looked really bad (for the most part) without him. Then, to no one's surprise, the bench looked great again when FVV returned in game 6.

[The Laker Kid]

Raps in 3+1

[Anticon]

Ugh - I hate this series and while I appreciate the greatness of Lebron - I wish he wasn't our daddy.

People always mention Kyrie, but an underrated difference this year for this series is the Cavs are missing Channing Frye.

No joke Frye is a certified Raptors killer and has eviscerated Toronto the past two years.

2016 Series:
9.0 ppg on 84.4% TS (63% FG/58% 3P) in 16.4 MPG

2017 Series:
9.0 ppg on 86.2% TS (65% FG/64% 3P) in 13.1 MPG

Those shooting percentages don't even look real. Toronto's bigs have really struggled to defend him because when you play him with LeBron, his quick shot release and the height of it makes him tough to close out on unless you're faceguarding him. Love by comparison is much easier to close out on because it takes him longer to wind up and he's more hesitant, plus he's releasing it a good 4-5 inches below where Frye is.

But if you have your center at the three point line, then you're giving LeBron free lanes to the rim once he gets by his man. So not having him is going to make an enormous difference in this series and makes things considerably easier for Toronto.

This is very true, but considering we allowed Jose Calderon a career game this year I think he may be more replaceable then you think.

The Raptors problems containing corner threes against the Cavs is systemic. The series will hinge on their ability to figure that out.

[Kabookalu]

Raptors are 2 wins away from being 2 wins away of being Raps in 4.

[ILOVEIT]

Look at that Effort

Yeah it's really unfair that opposing player can't put two hands on LBJ at the three point line and push him. The league should let defenders do that.

yeah that was a powerful push knocking 6"8 270 pound lebron to go flying

Two things can be equally true...
1 LeBron is a total flopper.
2 That push never occurs on just about ever play as defender try and bump the offense off their rhythm.

Oh...LeBron is a pathetic flopper. And that's too dang bad because he's so talented he doesn't need that crap.

[KHRICH]

Ugh - I hate this series and while I appreciate the greatness of Lebron - I wish he wasn't our daddy.

People always mention Kyrie, but an underrated difference this year for this series is the Cavs are missing Channing Frye.

No joke Frye is a certified Raptors killer and has eviscerated Toronto the past two years.

2016 Series:
9.0 ppg on 84.4% TS (63% FG/58% 3P) in 16.4 MPG

2017 Series:
9.0 ppg on 86.2% TS (65% FG/64% 3P) in 13.1 MPG

Those shooting percentages don't even look real. Toronto's bigs have really struggled to defend him because when you play him with LeBron, his quick shot release and the height of it makes him tough to close out on unless you're faceguarding him. Love by comparison is much easier to close out on because it takes him longer to wind up and he's more hesitant, plus he's releasing it a good 4-5 inches below where Frye is.

But if you have your center at the three point line, then you're giving LeBron free lanes to the rim once he gets by his man. So not having him is going to make an enormous difference in this series and makes things considerably easier for Toronto.

Lol I'm glad someone noticed this I hate playing that guy when he shoots 3s against raptors I feel he is better than steph curry

[ILOVEIT]

Ugh - I hate this series and while I appreciate the greatness of Lebron - I wish he wasn't our daddy.

People always mention Kyrie, but an underrated difference this year for this series is the Cavs are missing Channing Frye.

No joke Frye is a certified Raptors killer and has eviscerated Toronto the past two years.

2016 Series:
9.0 ppg on 84.4% TS (63% FG/58% 3P) in 16.4 MPG

2017 Series:
9.0 ppg on 86.2% TS (65% FG/64% 3P) in 13.1 MPG

Those shooting percentages don't even look real. Toronto's bigs have really struggled to defend him because when you play him with LeBron, his quick shot release and the height of it makes him tough to close out on unless you're faceguarding him. Love by comparison is much easier to close out on because it takes him longer to wind up and he's more hesitant, plus he's releasing it a good 4-5 inches below where Frye is.

But if you have your center at the three point line, then you're giving LeBron free lanes to the rim once he gets by his man. So not having him is going to make an enormous difference in this series and makes things considerably easier for Toronto.

This is very true, but considering we allowed Jose Calderon a career game this year I think he may be more replaceable then you think.

The Raptors problems containing corner threes against the Cavs is systemic. The series will hinge on their ability to figure that out.

No...the series will hinge on Lowry not crawling into a shell. If he grows his pair...and they don't giveaway game one like and act like they are asking LB for permission to take the series....THEN they have a chance to win.

[Kabookalu]

There's all this talk of how Indiana was a bad matchup for the Cavaliers, but never any mention of how Washington was too for Toronto. We went 2-2 against them in the regular season, they always play us tough, with one of them I was so sure we were going to lose but got bailed out with CJ Miles heroics. If you're gonna say that struggling against Indiana has no bearing against how well they'll do against Toronto, then struggling against Washington shouldn't be used against the Raptors either.