Pippen on First Take about Jordan vs Lebron

[KyletheDingbat]

Fixed it for you.

Fixed it for you.

I wasn't told and sold anything. I watched Jordan play and I watched Lebron play. I saw Jordan go 6/6 and dominate the league. Lebron is great but MJ was the best. No one had to tell me that. I witnessed it.

You can believe what you want and I won't try to tell you otherwise. But don't pretend my beliefs are the product of the media's efforts. I watch the actual games. I barely watch(ed) any media whatsoever.

And it's ironic that you would say that since the media peddles Lebron constantly.

Anytime somebody claims "fake news! media made!" about Jordan, you know they're uneducated on him.

[Bruteque]

While Jordan was taking on the likes of Sir Charles and The Mailman and Patrick Ewing, LeBron is up against...Kyle Lowry.

That's why Jordan will always be GoAT over LeBron. Jordan dominated in the era of the Dream Team.

[GoGreen]

I feel like Jordan vs Lebron is a media creation. Been hearing about it since this kid was drafted. Tired of it. He's a fabulous player but this need to topple Jordan is strange.

[BVB24]

His Airness is still #1 for me. I think a lot of people on here are forgetting just how great Jordan was, or are simply too young to remember or have even seen him play. Seems there’s a recency-bias here with Lebron. MJ was a God on the court and there’s never been a more feared player with the ball in hands late in the 4th qtr of a close game. His clutchness is unmatched in NBA history and he had an absolute storybook career and more iconic plays. He also single-handedly revolutionized the game and the business aspect of it.


With that said, Lebron is definitely #2 for me and has the chance to potentially surpass MJ at some point down the line. He’s definitely a better rebounder, passer, and shot-blocker than Jordan ever was, with Jordan being the better scorer and defender. Lebron’s just more versatile due to his freakish combination of size, strength, and speed. He does things that Jordan simply couldn’t. He also doesn’t have the “killer instinct” that so many revere MJ for having, although I will say Lebron is becoming more and more clutch as he ages.


Overall, very different players, but will go down as #1 & #2 on just about every NBA fan’s boards. Fun debate either way.

[StraightShooter]

He already stated several years ago candidly about his feeling on Jordan vs Lebron but it did not go well on him. He was bombarded with hate inside and outside of his home. He was called salty, envious, ungrateful and all sorts of stuffs so I guess he learned his lesson and never again. We as basketball fans has this luxury of saying whatever comes in our mind without any fear of repercussion, but players don't have the same luxury.

[zimpy27]

Jordan, LeBron, Kareem should all be on equal footing tbh.

I love Jordan, I was obsessed as a teenager but he's not outrightly better than LeBron or Kareem. Though I only saw old Kareem, the more I've read the more I think it's hard to define any one goat between these 3.

I think the goat discussion is flawed. It shouldn't have existed in the first place. People keep changing definitions and now it seems foolish.

[Pure_Basketball]

While Jordan was taking on the likes of Sir Charles and The Mailman and Patrick Ewing, LeBron is up against...Kyle Lowry.

That's why Jordan will always be GoAT over LeBron. Jordan dominated in the era of the Dream Team.

Lmao, as if Lebron hasn't taken on Duncan, Parker, Ginobili....Ray Allen, Pierce, KG, Rondo.... Harden, Durant, Westbrook....

[Meat]

While Jordan was taking on the likes of Sir Charles and The Mailman and Patrick Ewing, LeBron is up against...Kyle Lowry.

That's why Jordan will always be GoAT over LeBron. Jordan dominated in the era of the Dream Team.

Right, you mean going up against the likes of Dan mjarle/Kevin Johnson, Jeff horneck, and Stars/Harper/Houston.

[Side beard]

While Jordan was taking on the likes of Sir Charles and The Mailman and Patrick Ewing, LeBron is up against...Kyle Lowry.

That's why Jordan will always be GoAT over LeBron. Jordan dominated in the era of the Dream Team.

Lmao, as if Lebron hasn't taken on Duncan, Parker, Ginobili....Ray Allen, Pierce, KG, Rondo.... Harden, Durant, Westbrook....

Yeah, Lebron also didnt beat greatest team of all time with one of the best point guards to ever play the game.

[Sports Realist]

His Airness is still #1 for me. I think a lot of people on here are forgetting just how great Jordan was, or are simply too young to remember or have even seen him play. Seems there’s a recency-bias here with Lebron. MJ was a God on the court and there’s never been a more feared player with the ball in hands late in the 4th qtr of a close game. His clutchness is unmatched in NBA history and he had an absolute storybook career and more iconic plays. He also single-handedly revolutionized the game and the business aspect of it.


With that said, Lebron is definitely #2 for me and has the chance to potentially surpass MJ at some point down the line. He’s definitely a better rebounder, passer, and shot-blocker than Jordan ever was, with Jordan being the better scorer and defender. Lebron’s just more versatile due to his freakish combination of size, strength, and speed. He does things that Jordan simply couldn’t. He also doesn’t have the “killer instinct” that so many revere MJ for having, although I will say Lebron is becoming more and more clutch as he ages.


Overall, very different players, but will go down as #1 & #2 on just about every NBA fan’s boards. Fun debate either way.

Even though I am firmly in the James > Jordan boat by now (he has won me over that much historically), this is a great take and should be easily identifiable with.

Solid, objective, no sides taken.

Put Jabbar in there too and you have your 3 GOAT's.

[lambchop]

While Jordan was taking on the likes of Sir Charles and The Mailman and Patrick Ewing, LeBron is up against...Kyle Lowry.

That's why Jordan will always be GoAT over LeBron. Jordan dominated in the era of the Dream Team.

Well, it's just a different era. Jordan went up against players who really changed the game. That said, the dreamteam dominated in an era, where international ball was pretty weak, so that argument is kinda useless. How many international players were franchise players in the nba or at least top 3 players on their teams during the dreamteam era?
During Lebron's era there have been dirk, giannis, parker, ginobili, porzingis, m gasol, p gasol etc.

Anyway, lebrons current issue isnt defeating teams with 1 or 2 stars or even 3 stars, it's the team with 4 stars that he will never overcome. Of course, one could make an argument that MJ would defeat the dubs in 6 with the cavs roster, but we'll never know for sure.

[papz187]

This is a debate I've had recently and have given some thought to.

I remember Jordan as a kid beating my Knicks year in and year out despite some tough series played against each other. I never thought a player could surpass him, but Lebron has made it close enough for me to consider.

One thing I admire Lebron for is no athlete in America has had more expectations at a young age than Lebron. His high school games were televised on ESPN for God sakes lol I remember thinking "he'll be a very good pro, but its unrealistic for any person to live up to these expectations", yet I think he has surpassed them, becoming potentially the GOAT.

The NBA was overall deeper in Jordan's era than Lebrons I'd say, but Jordan never faced or beat a team as good as the 73 win Warriors in a Finals, and he also never took a team as sorry as that first Cavs team to the Finals like Lebron did against the Spurs.

Jordan definitely was insanely clutch, and that was something Lebron wasn't as strong at early on in his career. Yet Lebron has the most PPG in game 7s AND closeout games now, plus most playoff buzzer beaters too. It's just impressive how far he's come in the clutch category.

It's a fun debate and I'd listen to either side......I am pretty sure if I had to start a team today with a rookie Lebron or rookie Jordan I'm taking Lebron though mainly due to his versatility.



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[Patches Perry]

Fixed it for you.

I wasn't told and sold anything. I watched Jordan play and I watched Lebron play. I saw Jordan go 6/6 and dominate the league. Lebron is great but MJ was the best. No one had to tell me that. I witnessed it.

You can believe what you want and I won't try to tell you otherwise. But don't pretend my beliefs are the product of the media's efforts. I watch the actual games. I barely watch(ed) any media whatsoever.

And it's ironic that you would say that since the media peddles Lebron constantly.

Anytime somebody claims "fake news! media made!" about Jordan, you know they're uneducated on him.

Sure not all Jordan fans are the same so maybe I'm painting with too broad of a brush, but the invented criteria that LeBron has to match Jordan on all of his accomplishments misses the fact that LeBron has done things Jordan will never do also. Great players typically blaze their own trail. Obviously if you evaluate LeBron according to the best features of Jordan's resume, he'll fall short, but the same is true in reverse.

At the end of the day I have Kareem over both.

[yesh]

Watch on YouTube

[LBJKB24MJ23]

i don't know man. Him beating the Warriors 73 win team down 3-1, getting smoked in all their losses, to come back and win it all. that did it for me to put him up there with Kareem and Jordan. Lebron did that leading everyone in all counting statistical glory as well. Points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals. That's a GOAT moment right there, one and only time. No one will ever do that ever again.

Jordan was already on the best team. That would be equivalent to Jordan losing to the Utah Jazz team up 3-1.

some may disagree but i have both of them 1a and 1b, or Jordan #1 and Lebron #2 but really close. Do you wish he had more championships? sure. but he's not on the "hands down best team" since his Miami days, vs Jordan being on the best team in every year, hands down. Like you would know Jordan would win a championship that year. Lebron, always had doubts, moreso in recent years (cuz of the Warriors)

[shaolinmilk]

Whoever says the league was deeper back then needs their brain checked. So many players back then would not make it in today's league. Only the superstars back then would make it today. If you can't see that, then there's no point of arguing.

[tomacorandom]

He's right. When you consider the talent and coaching MJ had around him, as well as the significantly weaker opposition in the Finals, I think it's clear the say LeBron has definitely surpassed MJ in stats as well as overall standing.

How the **** has this comment +20?!

MJ weaker opposition in the finals? Are you kidding me?
What about the paths he had to go through? The East that have had Lebron is waaaaaay weaker than the ones MJ had to suffer. FFS

If LJ had done the same during the years BUT in the West conference, I would say yes, but come on man, the East has been ridiculous during the years. Only Boston Celtics with Allen was a real contender and he couldn't win them

[scrabbarista]

If I have to start a franchise with any rookie in history, I'm taking Tim Duncan, and good luck to everybody else. But that's not how I determine my GOAT.

The argument, for me, has reached a point where I can respect an opinion that Lebron is #1, as long as it's admitted that it's close. I'm not conflicted at all: I still believe there's a right answer and it's Jordan, for now, but it's at least close enough that I won't get bent out of shape if someone takes Lebron (this has probably only become true in the last twelve months or so) - as long as they admit it's close. Anyone saying it's easily Lebron is either forgetful or ignorant. I'm not the latter, but even so, I have to guard against the former, as one of the better posts in this thread has pointed out.

But all of that is just based on where LBJ's at right now. His story is still being written, and by the time he retires, he might have a larger margin over Jordan than Jordan currently has over him.

[scrabbarista]

Whoever says the league was deeper back then needs their brain checked. So many players back then would not make it in today's league. Only the superstars back then would make it today. If you can't see that, then there's no point of arguing.

No question, the league is deeper now. The overall talent is higher in Lebron's era than it was in Jordan's. I agree: anyone who can't see that isn't worth debating. Saying only the superstars then would make it today is going way too far, though. Also, I still have MJ over LBJ. (Simply pointing out the league is better now isn't a great argument on its own. If it were, it could be used to argue for any current player over any 80's/90's player, which would obviously be absurd.)

[Hero]

He's right. When you consider the talent and coaching MJ had around him, as well as the significantly weaker opposition in the Finals, I think it's clear the say LeBron has definitely surpassed MJ in stats as well as overall standing.

How the **** has this comment +20?!

MJ weaker opposition in the finals? Are you kidding me?
What about the paths he had to go through? The East that have had Lebron is waaaaaay weaker than the ones MJ had to suffer. FFS

If LJ had done the same during the years BUT in the West conference, I would say yes, but come on man, the East has been ridiculous during the years. Only Boston Celtics with Allen was a real contender and he couldn't win them

Clearly weaker. You really think Malone and Stockton were the same level as a 73 win GSW team ?

Please provide metrics to back that up