Team Canada Basketball Thread

[duppyy]

I would invite Justin to Summer League if nobody picks him up.

[frumble]

Sonny Bairos is active again on twitter and has posted lots of recruiting/transfer info:

- Jermaine Haley will announce his transfer destination (from New Mex State) next Monday.

- Nate Darling announced his transfer destination as Delaware (from UAB).

- Quincy Guerrier has offers from Georgetown, Providence, Texas, and Xavier.

- Jaden Bediako has an offer from Virgina Tech.

- Addison Patterson has offers from Syracuse and USC.

- Kentucky has a summer tour this August that will feature games in the Bahamas against the Bahamas National Team (unclear if senior team or age-based), a couple club teams, and a "Team Toronto" (to be coached by Roy Rana).

[TooBad]

Murray made a leap for the first half of the season and then regressed a lot. I don't know why the hell he has such a hard time shooting now. He was a great shooter in college but is pretty inefficient in the NBA, Honestly, I thought that Dillon Brooks had a better season overall (two way-player and better play maker).

I'd take issue with this statement a little - Murray had one of the more efficient shooting seasons for any guard in the league. To throw some parameters on it - there were 81 guards play at least 50 games and carry 18% USG this season - Murray ranked 17th of the 81 in True Shooting this season - one tenth of a percentage point behind Victor Oladipo who should make an All-NBA team, two tenths of a percentage better than Lou Williams who will likely be 6th man of the Year: http://bkref.com/tiny/0vMbY


Most impressively, there have 61 guards in the history of the NBA who played 50 games and carried 18% USG at age 20 or younger - Murray's season ranks as the 3rd most efficient in the history of basketball for players at his age and usage level behind only 79-80 Magic Johnson and 08-09 Eric Gordon : http://bkref.com/tiny/8vHuU

All I am saying is that he was playing like an Allstar for the first half of the season and then he became really passive and often scared to shoot. Maybe his overall numbers were decent but he was a much worse player in the 2nd half and in my opinion cost his team the post season (that and benching lyles).

[mojo13]

Kevin Pangos with a 21 point (7/11), 4 assit, zero TO night to lead Zalgiris to a close out win over traditional heavyweight Olympiacos and on to the EuroLeague Final Four for the first time in 20 years. That alone will cause him to never by a beer himself for the rest of his life in Lithuania. A legend is born....
Zalgiris is playing excellent team bball and is a joy to watch from the little I get to see.

Kyle Wiltjer even gotsome run tonight (12 pts in 24 mins - after a couple DNP-CDs) as Oly realized it needed to change things up to have a chance (didn't work).

Also note that Phil Scrubb is still playing great ball in the BBL - dropping 33 points in a win over German EuroLeague team Brose Bramberg. He is becoming masterful leading a PnR attack (and I'd love to see him on the floor with Dwight Powell). He is extending his lead as leading scorer in the BBL as well. Its a little tough for me to gauge the domestic league variances but he seems to be having one of the best seasons of all out Euro pros besides Pangos. Granted guys like Pangos, Doornekamp, Wiltjer, Dylan Ennis, Melvin Ejim, Stefan Jankovic are playing on higher caliber teams/leagues. Phil seems to be on a club somewhat on par with guys like Tommy Scrubb, Dyshawn Pierre, Kyle Landry, Kenny Chery, Adika Peter McNeilly, Owen Klassen, Justin Edwards, Brady Heslip, Andy Rautins etc. I am sure if Mirotic sees this, he'll spit out is coffee in a rush to correct me - but I'm just generalizing.

[TooBad]

Wiggins probably has the lowest trade value in his career at this point after that last game. Most fans in Minnesota want him traded ASAP. Its going to be interesting to see where he lands and how much his asking price is because I don't even think the Raptors would touch that contract. Maybe we could trade Powell and Jonas or something like that.

[verysalt]

Kevin Pangos is coming to NBA. Lithuanian coaches told number of NBA scouts were visiting games and expressed interest in him.

Dude is absolutely insane. He plays for the team with 2nd lowest budget (8Mils) in Euroleague and was one of the main carries to get to the semifinals. Albeit, he was coached by Euro "Popovich" - Jasikevicius.

[slothrop8]

Wiggins probably has the lowest trade value in his career at this point after that last game. Most fans in Minnesota want him traded ASAP. Its going to be interesting to see where he lands and how much his asking price is because I don't even think the Raptors would touch that contract. Maybe we could trade Powell and Jonas or something like that.

I'm a huge JV fan, but after Wiggins' second season when he averaged over 20 ppg on 54.3% TS as a 20 year old, I'd definitely have shipped JV and Powell for Wiggins and never looked back. Now, 2 years later, I don't think I would make that deal. Wiggins has gotten worse, his bad habits have become more ingrained, his outright disinterest most nights is a major red flag, and he's now carting a mega contract around. I'm still rooting for him - I want him to be a key piece for Canada basketball moving forward. However, as an NBA asset - at this current production level and salary commitment, he's veering dangerously close to having negative value. He's become so inefficient offensively he's just burning possessions left and right and he does very little else on the floor to impact winning. Hope he bounces back next year, but he's been a major disappointment.

[UcanUwill]

Kevin Pangos is coming to NBA. Lithuanian coaches told number of NBA scouts were visiting games and expressed interest in him.

Dude is absolutely insane. He plays for the team with 2nd lowest budget (8Mils) in Euroleague and was one of the main carries to get to the semifinals. Albeit, he was coached by Euro "Popovich" - Jasikevicius.

Slow down with Euro Popovich, though Jasikevicius is the most promising coach in Europe. I am Zalgiris fan and I absolutely love Pangos, dude is just a shooter, one of those shooters where anytime he takes a shot, I assume it goes in. I dont remember seeing such a player play for Zalgirs since Marcus Brown. And he improved his playmaking game a lot, his pick and pop game with Jankunas is lethal. I am not sure if thats just Euros being scrubs, or that said pick and pop is just that good, but these Euros cant guard it at all.
I think Pangos is at worse a prime Jose Calderon, easily top 10 Canadian player, dont sleep on him just because he is not in the NBA yet. Man is legit, way better than a lot of PGs who came out of Europe to NBA.

[slothrop8]

Slow down with Euro Popovich, though Jasikevicius is the most promising coach in Europe. I am Zalgiris fan and I absolutely love Pangos, dude is just a shooter, one of those shooters where anytime he takes a shot, I assume it goes in. I dont remember seeing such a player play for Zalgirs since Marcus Brown.

Marcus Brown! Now there's a name from the past I haven't heard in a long time. I'm a big UNC fan for NCAA basketball and we played Marcus Brown and Murray State in the first round of the NCAA tournament when UNC had Jerry Stackhouse and Rasheed Wallace - so like 1995 - and were down at the half and just barely pulled out the win in part because Marcus Brown had a big scoring night. I haven't thought about that name in 20+ years - but I remember being very impressed with him that day.

Sorry for the OT post!

[mojo13]

SI's Big Board Top 100 for the upcoming Draft.
https://www.si.com/nba/nba-draft-2018-prospect-rankings-big-board

Write-ups on the following: Shai Gigeous Alexander at 14, Justin Jackson at ~46, Lindell Wigginton at ~81, MiKyle McIntosh, ~95, Matur Maker at ~98.


Got to think Wigginton returns to ISU right? He should know if he is invited to the Draft Combine in the next couple days. If not, you'd think he'd return to ISU for sure.


EDIT: Already announced he is not invited to the Combine. NBA is keeping Wigginton on stand-by if space opens up, but the news isn’t good for the guard’s draft stock. In the past, not receiving an invite to the combine is a sign that a player should return to school.

Here is a good take on Wigginton:
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa-state/randy-peterson/2018/04/30/nba-draft-combine-lindell-wigginton-iowa-state-cyclones-basketball/564278002/

Wigginton averaged 16.7 points, 3.7 rebounds and shot 40.1 percent from 3-point range last season. He also committed 92 turnovers and had 88 assists while jockeying between both guard positions.

He’s a bit loose with the ball, and for a 6-foot-2 very talented guy with eyes on becoming an NBA point guard — that’s not a good ratio.

He’s a gifted athlete. At almost 190 pounds, he’s tough and aggressive. He’s still not a proven point guard.

[Mirotic12]

Kevin Pangos with a 21 point (7/11), 4 assit, zero TO night to lead Zalgiris to a close out win over traditional heavyweight Olympiacos and on to the EuroLeague Final Four for the first time in 20 years. That alone will cause him to never by a beer himself for the rest of his life in Lithuania. A legend is born....
Zalgiris is playing excellent team bball and is a joy to watch from the little I get to see.

Kyle Wiltjer even gotsome run tonight (12 pts in 24 mins - after a couple DNP-CDs) as Oly realized it needed to change things up to have a chance (didn't work).

Also note that Phil Scrubb is still playing great ball in the BBL - dropping 33 points in a win over German EuroLeague team Brose Bramberg. He is becoming masterful leading a PnR attack (and I'd love to see him on the floor with Dwight Powell). He is extending his lead as leading scorer in the BBL as well. Its a little tough for me to gauge the domestic league variances but he seems to be having one of the best seasons of all out Euro pros besides Pangos. Granted guys like Pangos, Doornekamp, Wiltjer, Dylan Ennis, Melvin Ejim, Stefan Jankovic are playing on higher caliber teams/leagues. Phil seems to be on a club somewhat on par with guys like Tommy Scrubb, Dyshawn Pierre, Kyle Landry, Kenny Chery, Adika Peter McNeilly, Owen Klassen, Justin Edwards, Brady Heslip, Andy Rautins etc. I am sure if Mirotic sees this, he'll spit out is coffee in a rush to correct me - but I'm just generalizing.

Pangos is a better shooter, but Scrubb is a better player. Scrubb's game is a lot more complete than Pangos'. Pangos is really really good at shooting and running pick and pop...he does not do much other than that. Scrubb on the other hand is a very complete scorer. I think Scrubb is an overall better player.

As for Wiltjer, he will supposedly get 30 minutes, or even 40 minutes a game of playing time in the Greek League playoffs. Olympiacos had a whole bunch of players playing with severe injuries in the EuroLeague playoffs, trying to win (which was stupid, you can't win with a whole bunch of injured players and it risks more injury)...and supposedly now they will have only a 9 man roster for the Greek League playoffs (no Milutinov, Printezis, Bogris, Thompson, Agravanis, Tillie available) , with Wiltjer getting "30 to 40 minutes a game".

It's also said that how Wiltjer plays then, with all that playing time, will determine if they give him a new contract or not.

[Hair Canada]

SI's Big Board Top 100 for the upcoming Draft.
https://www.si.com/nba/nba-draft-2018-prospect-rankings-big-board

Write-ups on the following: Shai Gigeous Alexander at 14, Justin Jackson at ~46, Lindell Wigginton at ~81, MiKyle McIntosh, ~95, Matur Maker at ~98.


Got to think Wigginton returns to ISU right? He should know if he is invited to the Draft Combine in the next couple days. If not, you'd think he'd return to ISU for sure.


EDIT: Already announced he is not invited to the Combine. NBA is keeping Wigginton on stand-by if space opens up, but the news isn’t good for the guard’s draft stock. In the past, not receiving an invite to the combine is a sign that a player should return to school.

Here is a good take on Wigginton:
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa-state/randy-peterson/2018/04/30/nba-draft-combine-lindell-wigginton-iowa-state-cyclones-basketball/564278002/

Wigginton averaged 16.7 points, 3.7 rebounds and shot 40.1 percent from 3-point range last season. He also committed 92 turnovers and had 88 assists while jockeying between both guard positions.

He’s a bit loose with the ball, and for a 6-foot-2 very talented guy with eyes on becoming an NBA point guard — that’s not a good ratio.

He’s a gifted athlete. At almost 190 pounds, he’s tough and aggressive. He’s still not a proven point guard.

Thanks Mojo. I think it's almost certain that Lindell will go back to Iowa State next year, as he said that he doesn't want to be a G-league player. As for his long-term prospects, I think it's just not realistic to expect him to be a lead PG. That's not who he is and I've never seen that out of him anywhere. Just not a very good decision maker. I see him more in the mold of players like Lou Williams or Eric Gordon as a best-case-scenario. Relatively short SGs with good athleticism, and who can shoot the ball. So I think the most encouraging thing he's shown last year was shooting the three ball with good percentage. That's something he hasn't shown consistently in the past. If he's able to maintain this, then I think he has a future in the NBA as a scoring guard off the bench, but not a PG.

[Hair Canada]

The most thorough scouting report of SGA that I've seen. Probably also the most optimistic one. He actually believes that if Shai improves some areas in his game he has all-star potential (!) Interesting stuff.

https://bballvibesandstuff.wordpress.com/2018/04/30/shai-gilgeous-alexander-scouting-report/

[mojo13]

The most thorough scouting report of SGA that I've seen. Probably also the most optimistic one. He actually believes that if Shai improves some areas in his game he has all-star potential (!) Interesting stuff.

https://bballvibesandstuff.wordpress.com/2018/04/30/shai-gilgeous-alexander-scouting-report/

Optimistic might be an understatement. 6th on his Big Board and considering moving him up? I don't know who this guy is, but I hope he is right. I don't want to see Shai drafted that high, but more hoping on the end results.



Mirotic - I hope you are right with Wiltjer as it will be really interesting to see him get real minutes. I think he has proven himself as a capable scorer at the EL level, the question becomes about whether he can become an elite enough offensive player to make up for his defensive limitations. I hope you can report back on what you see from him.

[frumble]

Per Sonny Bairos, West Virginia is Jermaine Haley's transfer destination. Eligible this fall (spent the 2017-18 season at a JUCO after leaving New Mexico State after his freshman season of 2016-17).

[mojo13]

Per Sonny Bairos, West Virginia is Jermaine Haley's transfer destination. Eligible this fall (spent the 2017-18 season at a JUCO after leaving New Mexico State after his freshman season of 2016-17).

Any of you guys think Haley is any good?

How did he end up in JUCO anyways? Did he fail out of NMSU - which is not quite the Harvard of New Mexico? What was the story there?
He played 21 minutes a game as a freshman at NMSU and put up pretty putrid stats - what is the draw here? A 6'7 supposed guard - who can't shoot and probably cant play PG? But then - West Virgina is a good program, so there might be something there?

[frumble]

Per Sonny Bairos, West Virginia is Jermaine Haley's transfer destination. Eligible this fall (spent the 2017-18 season at a JUCO after leaving New Mexico State after his freshman season of 2016-17).

Any of you guys think Haley is any good?

How did he end up in JUCO anyways? Did he fail out of NMSU - which is not quite the Harvard of New Mexico? What was the story there?
He played 21 minutes a game as a freshman at NMSU and put up pretty putrid stats - what is the draw here? A 6'7 supposed guard - who can't shoot and probably cant play PG? But then - West Virgina is a good program, so there might be something there?

He transferred out of NSMU after his coach (Paul Weir) left. He initially announced he was going to Wyoming. I am not sure how he ended up at the JUCO instead.

Do I think he is that good? Hard to say. Was fairly highly regarded out of HS (wasn't he offered by the Zags?), but didn't do much at NMSU.

In any case, given his age - after the reclassification, the redshirt year at NMSU, the year playing at NMSU, and the year at the JUCO he has got to be at least 21 - he is probably no longer the hot prospect he once was.

He is probably most notable for all the school switches. Was supposed to play in Spain for his grade 12 year, but never did. Reclassified to 2016. Then there was the commitment to and de-commitment from UW, then the year NMSU, and whatever happened with Wyoming, the JUCO, and now WVU.

[slothrop8]

Per Sonny Bairos, West Virginia is Jermaine Haley's transfer destination. Eligible this fall (spent the 2017-18 season at a JUCO after leaving New Mexico State after his freshman season of 2016-17).

Any of you guys think Haley is any good?

How did he end up in JUCO anyways? Did he fail out of NMSU - which is not quite the Harvard of New Mexico? What was the story there?
He played 21 minutes a game as a freshman at NMSU and put up pretty putrid stats - what is the draw here? A 6'7 supposed guard - who can't shoot and probably cant play PG? But then - West Virgina is a good program, so there might be something there?

He transferred out of NSMU after his coach (Paul Weir) left. He initially announced he was going to Wyoming. I am not sure how he ended up at the JUCO instead.

Do I think he is that good? Hard to say. Was fairly highly regarded out of HS (wasn't he offered by the Zags?), but didn't do much at NMSU.

In any case, given his age - after the reclassification, the redshirt year at NMSU, the year playing at NMSU, and the year at the JUCO he has got to be at least 21 - he is probably no longer the hot prospect he once was.

He is probably most notable for all the school switches. Was supposed to play in Spain for his grade 12 year, but never did. Reclassified to 2016. Then there was the commitment to and de-commitment from UW, then the year NMSU, and whatever happened with Wyoming, the JUCO, and now WVU.

Pretty detailed breakdown of his JUCO stats here: http://www.wranglersports.com/sports/mbkb/2017-18/bios/haley_jermaine_npqm?view=profile

Fairly ordinary stats profile at presumedly a relatively low level of competition. That only speaks to his box score stats though - if WVU took him he's likely active defensively - they like to press and play a pretty aggressive defensive style - they likely wouldn't recruit Haley if he didn't offer them some value in that aspect of his game.

[Mirotic12]

Mirotic - I hope you are right with Wiltjer as it will be really interesting to see him get real minutes. I think he has proven himself as a capable scorer at the EL level, the question becomes about whether he can become an elite enough offensive player to make up for his defensive limitations. I hope you can report back on what you see from him.

I'll watch and see. So far he's been pretty good on offense overall as a scorer, and very good at stretching the floor (although he's a bit too much of a chucker and ball hog at times). His defense unfortunately is unacceptable most of the time, but at least he gives effort - he's at least trying.

He's going to get major minutes with all those injuries, but every player of the team will probably be very tired though, so it might not be that fair of a way to judge either.

[Ell Curry]

The most thorough scouting report of SGA that I've seen. Probably also the most optimistic one. He actually believes that if Shai improves some areas in his game he has all-star potential (!) Interesting stuff.

https://bballvibesandstuff.wordpress.com/2018/04/30/shai-gilgeous-alexander-scouting-report/

He reminds me of Delon and when Delon was at 19 he was dominating Junior College but I doubt he would have been as effective a freshman as SGA was. Having the size to switch at least 1-3 if not 1-4 on D and the ballhandling to play the 1 and a 3pt shot that isn't a liability and you're up to a solid NBA starting quality player at least.