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[yosemiteben]

Welp, Boston is up 3-0 in the 2nd round without 2 superstars. Not sure what more evidence is needed that we have to rebuild.

I actually had the complete opposite take.

Yeah, let's just discredit Boston's other players and credit it all to the coach. Fact is their team is loaded with talent and they are cruising to the ECF without Hayward and Irving. Tatum and Brown will only be better next year with all this playoff experience. So, what exact logic are you using to think Charlotte has any sort of reasonable shot at competing against them?

My point had nothing to do with Boston.

Assuming PHI loses, they will have played out Embiid's entire rookie contact and will only have one playoff series win to show for it. Pointing to PHI getting swept in the second round of year 5 of a rebuild and saying, "See, we need to do things just like that" doesn't make a ton of sense to me. PHI is no where close to competing with a healthy BOS.

[stinger14]

I actually had the complete opposite take.

Yeah, let's just discredit Boston's other players and credit it all to the coach. Fact is their team is loaded with talent and they are cruising to the ECF without Hayward and Irving. Tatum and Brown will only be better next year with all this playoff experience. So, what exact logic are you using to think Charlotte has any sort of reasonable shot at competing against them?

My point had nothing to do with Boston.

Assuming PHI loses, they will have played out Embiid's entire rookie contact and will only have one playoff series win to show for it. Pointing to PHI getting swept and saying, "See, we need to do things just like that" doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Everybody knows what Embiid has been through, so saying they only have one playoff series win during his rookie contract isn't making a good point either. And speaking of that very young group who has "only" one playoff series win, how many playoff series have the Hirnets won again? Then you also need to factor in the current future outlook for each team. All this considered, it looks to me like rebuilding isn't so bad. We can disagree, but continue down our current path and we will never be a serious contender. Having goals to just make the playoffs isn't my idea of being successful.

[yosemiteben]

There are more options than just what we have done recently and tanking for five years. What we have done in the past is irrelevant, I'm interested in where we should go from here. If you're going to get swept in the second round, whose last five years would you prefer - TOR or PHI?

[Braggins]

I actually had the complete opposite take.

Yeah, let's just discredit Boston's other players and credit it all to the coach. Fact is their team is loaded with talent and they are cruising to the ECF without Hayward and Irving. Tatum and Brown will only be better next year with all this playoff experience. So, what exact logic are you using to think Charlotte has any sort of reasonable shot at competing against them?

My point had nothing to do with Boston.

Assuming PHI loses, they will have played out Embiid's entire rookie contact and will only have one playoff series win to show for it. Pointing to PHI getting swept in the second round of year 5 of a rebuild and saying, "See, we need to do things just like that" doesn't make a ton of sense to me. PHI is no where close to competing with a healthy BOS.

Embiid and Simmons have a combined 175 games of regular season experience. This was the first full season for both of them (they are 24 and 21 years old) and they won 52 games and won a playoff series. They are ahead of schedule and still have more than max cap space and incoming lottery picks.

Thats as good of a result from a rebuild that you could realistically hope for. I can't believe you are still harping on this and acting like them not making it to the finals in the first season where they were trying to win is some kind of disappointment.

Our rebuild maxed out at 48 wins, 0 playoff series wins, and multiple seasons where we missed the playoffs in embarrassing fashion when were in full on win now mode, and yet you defended that rebuild strategy every step of the way. I don't get it.

There are more options than just what we have done recently and tanking for five years. What we have done in the past is irrelevant, I'm interested in where we should go from here.

Fair enough.

If you're going to get swept in the second round, whose last five years would you prefer - TOR or PHI?

This completely ignores that Toronto is essentially maxed out in every sense, whereas Philly is not even close. I would absolutely rather be in Philly's position than Toronto and would gladly have endured the last five years of Philly's tank to be in that spot, although what Toronto has done the last five years is still respectable.

[Braggins]

double post

[yosemiteben]

The point is they tanked for five years, are fully healthy, and are getting swept by a team down two starters, and half of their rotation will be UFAs this summer. They chose to draft a dude that was injured and hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I don't really factor that in their favor. He's 24 and they're paying him $26M next season, the fact that he can't stay healthy at this point is not a point in favor of potential, it's a point against it.

[stinger14]

There are more options than just what we have done recently and tanking for five years. What we have done in the past is irrelevant, I'm interested in where we should go from here. If you're going to get swept in the second round, whose last five years would you prefer - TOR or PHI?

Honestly I don't think it takes 5 years. I think 3 years is what you need, but again Philly has been delayed by injuries to their young players. To answer your question though, I would choose Philly. I have never considered Toronto a serious contender, while I think Philly is closer to a contender right now than Toronto ever has been, and Philly will just get better. Again I want a team that can be a serious contender, not be a tease by just winning regular season games and being happy to make the playoffs. Boston is another team who gathered a bunch of assets, and rebuilt their roster. They are a young team that is one game from making the ECF without Kyrie or Hayward because the young guys are making it happen. They made it happen faster than Philly.

[Braggins]

Their best player is a sophomore, their second best player is a rookie, and this is their first playoff run... Also, Embiid was healthy this season and only missed time for some scheduled rests and randomly getting hit in the eye.

The team they are playing still has a veteran all-star with tons of playoff experience, multiple talented young players, plenty of good role players, and possibly the most talented coach the league has ever seen. This is by no means an easy out for them and it shouldn't be very surprising that they are struggling in such circumstances in their first playoff run.

[yosemiteben]

I guess in my mind if you tank four / five years, then you lose the ability to say "hey, our guys are so young, they just need experience." The reality is that argument is only available because we're ignoring the Noels, MCWs, Okafors, and Fultz's, the guys that were supposed to justify the tank but are currently contributing nothing. The fact that they don't have better players that are older is their own fault, and I don't buy using that as an excuse for why it's ok for them not to be better now.

[stinger14]

The point is they tanked for five years, are fully healthy, and are getting swept by a team down two starters, and half of their rotation will be UFAs this summer. They chose to draft a dude that was injured and hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I don't really factor that in their favor. He's 24 and they're paying him $26M next season, the fact that he can't stay healthy at this point is not a point in favor of potential, it's a point against it.

Any player can have health issues at any time. Should we have traded Kemba when he had knee troubles? Should we have given up on MKG when he wasnt healthy? No, we shouldn't have, but now it is time as we havent had very good results. In fact, Philly and their one playoff series win is more than our guys have had. Their guys are starting to pay off, the Hornets guys are not. Philly looks good for the future. Hornets look like a very bad situation at the moment.

[LofJ]

How bad will our situation be if we land in the top 3 of the lottery in nine days? Things change fast in the NBA, hold on to hope guys.

[stinger14]

I guess in my mind if you tank four / five years, then you lose the ability to say "hey, our guys are so young, they just need experience." The reality is that argument is only available because we're ignoring the Noels, MCWs, Okafors, and Fultz's, the guys that were supposed to justify the tank but are currently contributing nothing. The fact that they don't have better players that are older is their own fault, and I don't buy using that as an excuse for why it's ok for them not to be better now.

I don't consider Noel a bad pick, and it is too early to write off Fultz at this time. Heck, I wish we had Fultz to be honest, as i think he will still be a very good player. Just because Philly picked Embiid with his injury issues and took 5 years doesn't mean we have to do that. Look in Boston, Tatum is a rookie, Brown is a sophomore, Rozier is very young, and those guys are playing well. I think a guy like Larranaga can help us find players like that in the draft. I have talked about him before, but RJ Barrett in next years draft could be one of those franchise changing talents.

[316Hornets]

I guess in my mind if you tank four / five years, then you lose the ability to say "hey, our guys are so young, they just need experience." The reality is that argument is only available because we're ignoring the Noels, MCWs, Okafors, and Fultz's, the guys that were supposed to justify the tank but are currently contributing nothing. The fact that they don't have better players that are older is their own fault, and I don't buy using that as an excuse for why it's ok for them not to be better now.

This is just the start for Philly. Did you expect them to conquer the world the first season Simmons and Embiid play together? Their tank is over and as long as they have their 2 gems, then they will remain competitive for the foreseeable future. The fact is we are far off from Philly and even further from Boston.

[yosemiteben]

How can you possibly not consider Noel a bad pick? A tanking team drafted him in the front half of the lottery then dumped him for seconds. PHI's draft picks should be judged by results IMO, given that the whole point of the tank is to accumulate assets and improve via the draft.

[stinger14]

How bad will our situation be if we land in the top 3 of the lottery in nine days? Things change fast in the NBA, hold on to hope guys.

That would be a great way to kick off the rebuild. Top 3 pick, maybe the 8th pick for Kemba, Monk, Bacon, and tank for top 3 next year. Not to mention Frank, MKG, and Zeller are still younger players should we decide to keep them around.

[yosemiteben]

This is just the start for Philly. Did you expect them to conquer the world the first season Simmons and Embiid play together?

I don't view their success through the lens of this being the first year of anything. It's like the fact that they went entire seasons with nothing to show for it is not important.

[LofJ]

I think it's also important to remember that you don't have to land a top 5 pick to find a player good enough to build around. We HAVE to get better at scouting and developing players to compete with the likes of the Celtics and 76ers.

[316Hornets]

This is just the start for Philly. Did you expect them to conquer the world the first season Simmons and Embiid play together?

I don't view their success through the lens of this being the first year of anything. It's like the fact that they went entire seasons with nothing to show for it is not important.

How many seasons of nothing would you go through for Lebron James? The new supermax contracts make getting players of the elite level even that much more important. It also helps the small market out a ton by being able to hang on to their superstars like Lebron.

[JDR720]

we have went entire seasons with nothing to show for it. I would say all the seasons we sucked and ended up picking 11th or whatever because we didnt tank fall into that category.

[stinger14]

This is just the start for Philly. Did you expect them to conquer the world the first season Simmons and Embiid play together?

I don't view their success through the lens of this being the first year of anything. It's like the fact that they went entire seasons with nothing to show for it is not important.

By winning a playoff series this year, they have more to show than the Hornets do in the same time span. Winning a few more regular season games means nothing. I want to see a contender built. Rebuilding now could make us relevant about the time LeBron is not controlling the East still, and the Warriors probably want have their current roster still together. If the Hornets can become a young competitive team with a bright future in the next 3 years, while the Warriors start to age and lose a couple stars, maybe Curry looks at it as his chance to sign his next deal with his hometown team to be the Vet leader of the bunch. Kinda like people talking about LeBron joining the young Sixers as a free agent