Political Roundtable Part XX

[stilldropin20]

He won't be in jail if the Dems can't take the house in 2018. Which looks increasingly unlikely.

I think you're overly pessimistic. I wouldn't pay attention to the polls at this point. Still far away from the midterms. Democrats will most likely take the House and the Senate is in play. It won't be easy, but the if the lies, corruption, attacks on the government, giveaway to corporations, attempt to take healthcare from millions of people can't get Democrats to vote the Republican sycophants out office because "Democrats don't cater to their every whim" then they have no right to complain when Trump and Republicans flush the country down the ****.

No one cares about lies and corruption anymore. Trump admitted he lied about paying off Stormy Daniels last week. His poll numbers *improved.* This country f@#$ing sucks now.

"The country sucks." You cant be anymore out of touch. What sucks? the lowest UE numbers of all fricking time!!? GDP pushing 3% for nearly every one of trumps quarters?? Wages on the rise??? taxes significantly lower for everyone making less than 75,000!!?? SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER!!. Jobs coming back!!?? North Korea about to denuke?? equal balances in trade???

what exactly sucks? You are soooooooooooooooooooo out of touch with reality.

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[gtn130]

Interesting read.

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Almost as if Trump is actually a terrible business person and more generally a huge idiot but has been kept afloat because of sketchy foreign loans and brazen money laundering.

[dckingsfan]

That is a very good point. I think Wizardspride pointed out it won't be Hillary - so there is that. But, the trend is there (and that is what makes it both interesting and worthwhile (on a federal, state and local level)... Now, the question is there a correction or does it keep going the wrong direction for the Rs.

I don't think those polls mean much at this stage. The whole Cambridge Analytica thing has blown over and was entirely misunderstood by the public, as most big data issues are. One thing it showed very clearly, though, is that driving voters to vote with their emotions matters (you might think this is patently obvious, but a large swath of Democrats haven't figured that out just yet, even though they obviously do it, too). When people are actually faced with a choice, motivating people to actually vote, matters regardless of which way they're "leaning" at any given point. I might be pessimistic, but the idea that this is going to go away on its own has never really been something I've believed in with respect to Trump and the forces behind him. These are issues that are going to require collective unselfish action to overcome no matter and given how many people out there are pointing to their own issues and asking for help, I'm not a big believer that kind of action happens unless another Obama comes along with the charisma needed to make people forget about all that other stuff. And realistically, that's a recipe for things to get worse before they get better, if they get better.

You make great points;
- emotions matter in elections
- motivating people to vote is important and really hard
- getting folks to move past their (specific and sometimes single) issues is very hard

But I am still buoyed by the movement in the polls with regards to independents - but we will see if it becomes a trend or just a correction.

Regardless, you are more correct. The candidate matters, the candidate needs to motivate voters to vote for them even if they don't cover their specific issue(s).

[dckingsfan]

This country f@#$ing sucks now.

what exactly sucks? You are soooooooooooooooooooo out of touch with reality.

We are basically bankrupt at both a federal, state and local level. We are involved in multiple ongoing wars. Our education system is stuck in the 50s. Our growth is still stuck. Inequality is going in the wrong direction. We have a huge drug problem that is killing people off at a unprecedented level. Our incarceration system and unfunded pension liabilities are bankrupting local and state governments. Misinformation and partisanship due to ratings-driven journalism. etc.. etc.. etc..

Even Trump says we need to make America great AGAIN

Other than that Ms. Lincoln, how was the play?

[Zonkerbl]

I hear... no, sense... the ghostly whisper of a deranged lunatic making my point for me...

[I_Like_Dirt]

You make great points;
- emotions matter in elections
- motivating people to vote is important and really hard
- getting folks to move past their (specific and sometimes single) issues is very hard

But I am still buoyed by the movement in the polls with regards to independents - but we will see if it becomes a trend or just a correction.

Regardless, you are more correct. The candidate matters, the candidate needs to motivate voters to vote for them even if they don't cover their specific issue(s).

I'm hoping it's a trend, but not optimistic. And realistically, even if it is a trend I'm not convinced that's a huge positive in any respect. The big issue the Ds have is they are such a mismatched group of objectives. Logically, they should all fit together pretty easily, but for a lot of them it's really just one issue they feel passionate about while feeling lukewarm at best about the others. And if that remains the case, and these trends hold, realistically what you're going to see is a collective that holds Trump up and even kicks him out of office but continues muddling along ineffectively and then eventually gets turfed, too. Trump has been pretty outright awful, but if the Ds are placefillers at best, they wind up being a temporary placebo at most. The motto for this administration really should be "Hate who you want to hate while we take the money and run!" And sadly, it's proving to be a remarkably effective strategy as people everywhere rally to explain why they hate who they hate and why everyone should drop everything to stop whoever it is that they hate and the result is collective paralysis and the fostering of hate that can be far more easily manipulated. Heck, to that end it even serves their purposes that there is a large portion of people who hate Trump and his supporters. The politics of division in a 2-party system is... not fun.

[dckingsfan]

You make great points;
- emotions matter in elections
- motivating people to vote is important and really hard
- getting folks to move past their (specific and sometimes single) issues is very hard

But I am still buoyed by the movement in the polls with regards to independents - but we will see if it becomes a trend or just a correction.

Regardless, you are more correct. The candidate matters, the candidate needs to motivate voters to vote for them even if they don't cover their specific issue(s).

I'm hoping it's a trend, but not optimistic. And realistically, even if it is a trend I'm not convinced that's a huge positive in any respect. The big issue the Ds have is they are such a mismatched group of objectives. Logically, they should all fit together pretty easily, but for a lot of them it's really just one issue they feel passionate about while feeling lukewarm at best about the others. And if that remains the case, and these trends hold, realistically what you're going to see is a collective that holds Trump up and even kicks him out of office but continues muddling along ineffectively and then eventually gets turfed, too. Trump has been pretty outright awful, but if the Ds are placefillers at best, they wind up being a temporary placebo at most. The motto for this administration really should be "Hate who you want to hate while we take the money and run!" And sadly, it's proving to be a remarkably effective strategy as people everywhere rally to explain why they hate who they hate and why everyone should drop everything to stop whoever it is that they hate and the result is collective paralysis and the fostering of hate that can be far more easily manipulated. Heck, to that end it even serves their purposes that there is a large portion of people who hate Trump and his supporters. The politics of division in a 2-party system is... not fun.

I think you and I are of the same mind on this one - we desperately need a 3rd party.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I don't think it's a 3rd party that's needed. I do think it's past time for the fiscal conservatives to cross the floor and join the Ds, giving some ground on how the programs will work for attacks on cost drivers. The Ds will resist, of course, because it's what they do, but they desperately need it and are cooked otherwise. That kind of manoeuver is the kind of move that pushes the Rs to actually have to change tactics. Right now they're acting like a party that isn't going to be held accountable, and frankly, unless we see dramatic change at some point, they're right. They might get voted out of office here or there, but realistically their chances at long-term governance aren't going to be impacted no matter how corrupt or discriminatory they might be.

Not that this is a hard and fast rule because clearly everyone is different, but I feel like the reason they push the discriminatory stuff is largely to prevent a more unified exodus like I'm describing. It's pretty clear at this point that people are willing to overlook their better judgment to a higher degree whenever their subconscious (or conscious) beliefs that their skin pigmentation or masculinity somehow makes them superior are being challenged. Of course, it isn't going to stop everyone, but it will stop some, and then will also push others who might lean D to be concerned as well. Realistically, the party titles are irrelevant here - and the Ds also lose step here because while some clearly get it, others just don't and see Ds for life while still dealing with issues that Strom Thurmond was dealing with back when he crossed the floor. It's the issues that matter, not the party, but party names are a great buffer to having to own any particular values or actions directly if you're challenged on them ever.

And realistically, I don't think it would be long for a 3rd party (assuming it wouldn't be marginalized - see Canada) to be overrun by the same issues the Ds and Rs are both facing. Realistically, as a society, people are simply willing to give in on pretty much everything if they don't have to do anything tangible, are told their problems are somebody else's fault, and the people they hate are getting it worse because they're worse people. That holds true around the world, and just happens to be out of hand in America (as well as many other places) at the moment. Societies haven't figured out how to function with the modern social media age. It's an age of mob mentality and that isn't going away.

[stilldropin20]

This country f@#$ing sucks now.

what exactly sucks? You are soooooooooooooooooooo out of touch with reality.

We are basically bankrupt at both a federal, state and local level. We are involved in multiple ongoing wars. Our education system is stuck in the 50s. Our growth is still stuck. Inequality is going in the wrong direction. We have a huge drug problem that is killing people off at a unprecedented level. Our incarceration system and unfunded pension liabilities are bankrupting local and state governments. Misinformation and partisanship due to ratings-driven journalism. etc.. etc.. etc..

Even Trump says we need to make America great AGAIN

Other than that Ms. Lincoln, how was the play?

what save you from the cliff in 2009-2014? compared to those years we are significantly better off.

[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

I don't think it's a 3rd party that's needed. I do think it's past time for the fiscal conservatives to cross the floor and join the Ds, giving some ground on how the programs will work for attacks on cost drivers. The Ds will resist, of course, because it's what they do, but they desperately need it and are cooked otherwise. That kind of manoeuver is the kind of move that pushes the Rs to actually have to change tactics. Right now they're acting like a party that isn't going to be held accountable, and frankly, unless we see dramatic change at some point, they're right. They might get voted out of office here or there, but realistically their chances at long-term governance aren't going to be impacted no matter how corrupt or discriminatory they might be.

Not that this is a hard and fast rule because clearly everyone is different, but I feel like the reason they push the discriminatory stuff is largely to prevent a more unified exodus like I'm describing. It's pretty clear at this point that people are willing to overlook their better judgment to a higher degree whenever their subconscious (or conscious) beliefs that their skin pigmentation or masculinity somehow makes them superior are being challenged. Of course, it isn't going to stop everyone, but it will stop some, and then will also push others who might lean D to be concerned as well. Realistically, the party titles are irrelevant here - and the Ds also lose step here because while some clearly get it, others just don't and see Ds for life while still dealing with issues that Strom Thurmond was dealing with back when he crossed the floor. It's the issues that matter, not the party, but party names are a great buffer to having to own any particular values or actions directly if you're challenged on them ever.

And realistically, I don't think it would be long for a 3rd party (assuming it wouldn't be marginalized - see Canada) to be overrun by the same issues the Ds and Rs are both facing. Realistically, as a society, people are simply willing to give in on pretty much everything if they don't have to do anything tangible, are told their problems are somebody else's fault, and the people they hate are getting it worse because they're worse people. That holds true around the world, and just happens to be out of hand in America (as well as many other places) at the moment. Societies haven't figured out how to function with the modern social media age. It's an age of mob mentality and that isn't going away.

Yes, the fiscal conservatives crossing over would do it also... I would think the mantra of sustainable would work for the more crunchy Ds. Farming, environment and government... you could extend it to the economy as well

[verbal8]

I think not being Trump covers Democratic messaging for November. In 2020 there is a need for a better message. I think the key message is sustainablity. It can cover improvements to the environment, education, health care affordability and a progressive tax and entitlements system. Also a reasonable immigration plan will prevent the age distribution from becoming too top heavy.

[TGW]

So that neoliberal corporate sellout Obama endorsed Dianne Feinstein the other day. Dianne Feinstein...one of the worst so-called Democrats in the senate. The lady who flew the Confederate flag when she was mayor of San Francisco. The lady who ran on the pro-death penalty, pro-prison platform. The same lady who voted for the Patriot Act and the Iraq war. Literally the worst of the worst....and Obama endorsed her.

In other words, f*** Obama. Sellout.

[FAH1223]

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Smart tactic. Basically isolate the US, drive a wedge between the US and Europe. Trump is idiot by pulling out the deal he has no idea nor does he care what long term he does to US prestige. The US will look like a raving madman.

Iran isn’t so concerned about US sanctions anyway. The danger of sanctions that were imposed globally via the UN are long gone.

The US is just going to bully European companies at this point.

[stilldropin20]

^^ wrong. crap. lies.^^

here's the deal. everything i have reported on here for the past year has come true. and all the liberal bull crap like the stuff above has been exposed as lies.

now new york attorney general is about to go down. he will resign or be fired within 2 weeks.

right out of billions:

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http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/386629-cuomo-calls-for-ny-attorney-generals-resignation-amid-abuse-allegations

[stilldropin20]

NYAG just resigned!!!!

mueller's team got their arses gaped last friday by Judge Elliot in Manafort case because per judge in case, the charges "are completely unrelated to russian collusion."

DOJ is stonewalling congress oversight...wont release thousands of documents. about to be held in contempt.

And North Korea is about to fully cave.

oh, UE is at record levels. Taxes are significantly lower. GDP pushing 3% every quarter. And Democrats that were part of the Clinton and Obama political Cartels are being exposed regularly for the criminals against the USA that they are.

[queridiculo]

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I mean, really, lost for words.

[closg00]

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WTF is wrong with this man? McCain has every right to have who he wants at his funeral. Who can blame him for not wanting the vile, draft-dodging coward who disrespected him, at his funeral.

[stilldropin20]

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WTF is wrong with this man? McCain has every right to have who he wants at his funeral. Who can blame him for not wanting the vile, draft-dodging coward who disrespected him, at his funeral.

john mccain is a whining cry baby. he has put his own emotions ahead of his country, his party, his state that he represents. all of whom elected Trump to over trump obamacare. That he doesn't want trump at his funeral is proof.

[nate33]

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WTF is wrong with this man? McCain has every right to have who he wants at his funeral. Who can blame him for not wanting the vile, draft-dodging coward who disrespected him, at his funeral.

Clearly, McCain hates Trump and the feeling is mutual. I think McCain looks small for not inviting Trump, but I don't really care either way. Frankly, from a legacy perspective, I think McCain would be better off inviting Trump, which would force Trump to make an awkward decision whether or not to go to the funeral of a man that Trump has consistently criticized.

But ultimately, this whole story is meaningless. On a scale of 1-10 in importance, it ranks a 0.