Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread

[LofJ]

we can all at least agree that nic aint a **** sg.

He can play the role of secondary playmaker that has traditionally been associated with the 2 spot, but yeah he sure as heck can't defend that position. That's one reason why I would prefer to keep MKG even though I am really disappointed in him. Find him a great sports psychologist and pump him up as much as possible because we need him to cover the quicker players that Nic and Marvin can't.

A starting wing rotation of Lamb, Batum, and MKG should be our default lineup with Frank and Kemba as the big and guard. And sub Zeller in for MKG when we face teams with a bigger frontcourt.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Man! This news broke when I was in the airport and I've been slammed ever since. It's been fun reading, but I didn't want to post from my phone. I'm 100% willing to roll with this and give him a shot. And while there is stuff that I don't like hearing I'm willing to see what actually goes down with him here first. Just because he did something as an interim HC doesn't mean he will do it again.

What I like
* Borrego is young
* He has experience with 3 different franchises
* He has a variety of experience including interim HC
* Spurs pedagree is a huge plus, especially considering that he started there & then went back after working elsewhere

What I don't like
* Him being described as a defensive guy - too many Cliff vibes there
* The descriptions of him as laid back but intense just seems a bit odd to me
* This from https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/04/24/what-went-right-orlando-magic-james-borrego/

Those final 30 games did see the Magic achieve something they could not under Jacque Vaughn. They established some semblance of an identity, at least on the defensive end. Their execution was not perfect, and it may not have been the best identity for wins and losses at the end of the day, but it was an identity nonetheless.

The Magic had a solid gameplan and a chance to win because they knew exactly what they were trying to do on each possession.

That strategy was to pack the paint and stop penetration into the paint and to the rim. It meant giving up a lot of 3-pointers at times. That cost the team games. But Borrego, with limited practice time and some habits to break while still using virtually the same play book and schemes, got the team to commit to it.

- having Cliff nightmare flashbacks

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

And Batum - I would try him at the 4 but whatever, as a wing he's shown that he can't defend a fast or athletic guy nearly as well these days. Needs to be paired with guys with better D.

[Liver_Pooty]

Starting Frank over Zeller is a joke. At least until Zeller gets a pimple on his knee and misses 20 games. Zeller and Batum have incredible chemistry together and both played their best when they were on the court together.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Zeller makes both Batum and Kemba better.

[Eoghan]

I just want to know if it's pronounced James as in James Brown or James (Ha-mess) as in James Rodriguez of Bayern Munich. Regardless, I'm pronouncing it Ha Mess.

[Bassman]

So reading everything and trying to absorb this decision; must say I’m not buzzing over it.

Agree there are serious Cliff flashbacks based on previous reports/strategies. If he employs the old sag and surrender defense...

Hopefully he has refined his knowledge and approach from more time with Pop. Every GM is going to make THEIR HIRE OF THEIR GUY. For better or worse Mitch likes him best. Nothing left to do but watch and wait. Biggest question is this: do they do the big blow up restart? I doubt it. If I’m Mitch I plan a slow motion rebuild, knowing it will take 1 to 2 years to make trades, exhaust some crap contracts and hope for lotto luck.

[Braggins]

So reading everything and trying to absorb this decision; must say I’m not buzzing over it.

Agree there are serious Cliff flashbacks based on previous reports/strategies. If he employs the old sag and surrender defense... :banghead:

Hopefully he has refined his knowledge and approach from more time with Pop. Every GM is going to make THEIR HIRE OF THEIR GUY. For better or worse Mitch likes him best. Nothing left to do but watch and wait. Biggest question is this: do they do the big blow up restart? I doubt it. If I’m Mitch I plan a slow motion rebuild, knowing it will take 1 to 2 years to make trades, exhaust some crap contracts and hope for lotto luck.

I was reading some stuff about him from his tenure in Orlando earlier today and the way he was being described stylistically really did seem pretty similar to Clifford.

[DY_nasty]

orlando's been a dysfunctional organization for nearly a decade now and he took over in the middle of the season

you're literally never going to be able to install, and have players buy into, a complex defensive scheme under those circumstances - and definitely not with the players he had at that time either.

i don't even have a real like/dislike for the guy yet but if you're using that and "likes defense" as a negative, or even a clifford comparison, then you're making up reasons to be bitter imo

even if you did want to compare clifford and this guy, clifford's defensive background was waaaaaay different lol. he got credited with a lot of what dwight/svg did and transitioned many of those ideas to LA. if you feel that's the same then sure go ahead tho

like clifford's defense was really the worst part about time here for that matter... we went from one of the worst defending teams in the league *historically* to consistently one of the best in the league each year. at times with guys like al jefferson starting at center lol. curse you steve clifford /shakesfist

i don't even know what some of you guys want anymore other than to be miserable. drink more

[arthy704]

If our new coach starts off the line up like this we are on a good start

Walker
Lamb
Batum
Mkg
Zeller

Monk
Bacon
Graham/mkg
Frank/williams
Howard

Plus if he can get creative you can run this on the fly mid way into games which we have lacked.

Walker
Monk
Graham
Bacon
Zeller

[LofJ]

I can understand being skeptical of Kupchak (and by extension Borrego) given MJ's history of nepotism, but if you actually look at Mitch's draft and trade record it's pretty stellar.

Look at the guys he drafted in the 2nd round while he was in charge:

Luke Walton
Ronny Turiaf
Marc Gasol
Patrick Beverley
Ivica Zubac

We haven't had anyone in a loooong time who has shown the consistent ability draft contributors in the 2nd round. I don't care about his UNC or Laker past at all, I care about results and Mitch has shown that he has the ability to evaluate talent. Borrego isn't exciting, but the league is littered with washed out coaches AND players that were exciting but ended up not being able to make it because they were more flash than substance.

[Eoghan]

Yeah but defense wins championships and we haven't won any championships. We've averaged under .500 ball under Clifford so therefore his defense was an issue.

[Marino]

The Hornets have yet to announce this hire. Do we know when the press conference will be?

[Liver_Pooty]

Jean Claude Van Damme could coach this team for all I care as long as they are fun to watch again

[Braggins]

What I don't like
* Him being described as a defensive guy - too many Cliff vibes there
* The descriptions of him as laid back but intense just seems a bit odd to me
* This from https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/04/24/what-went-right-orlando-magic-james-borrego/

Those final 30 games did see the Magic achieve something they could not under Jacque Vaughn. They established some semblance of an identity, at least on the defensive end. Their execution was not perfect, and it may not have been the best identity for wins and losses at the end of the day, but it was an identity nonetheless.

The Magic had a solid gameplan and a chance to win because they knew exactly what they were trying to do on each possession.

That strategy was to pack the paint and stop penetration into the paint and to the rim. It meant giving up a lot of 3-pointers at times. That cost the team games. But Borrego, with limited practice time and some habits to break while still using virtually the same play book and schemes, got the team to commit to it.

- having Cliff nightmare flashbacks

I also read that one of the changes he made when he took over Orlando was slowing down the pace. Hopefully that isn't a staple of his strategy and was just something he did because he was dealing with an extremely young and undisciplined team.

Then there is this quote, which sounds exactly like something Clifford would say - ""Sticking to your principles is important. Don't back down. Don't change. Believe in what you believe in and every day work on those areas and get better in those areas. And, over time, you tend to see progress..."

Coming up under Popovich and being a finalist for the Rockets job both give me some hope. We have very little to go on when it comes to these unknown coaches and a lot of what I'm hearing about this guy has me a bit suspicious, but its a good sign when people who are known for good judgement and making good decisions are impressed with someone. The main selling points for Larranga for me was that Ainge was impressed with him and he worked under Stevens. Morey and Popovich were apparently both impressed by Borrego, so thats something.

[Braggins]

Jean Claude Van Damme could coach this team for all I care as long as they are fun to watch again

I'm totally on board the Van Damme bandwagon if Borrego doesn't work out.

[LofJ]

Jean Claude Van Damme could coach this team for all I care as long as they are fun to watch again

I'm totally on board the Van Damme bandwagon if Borrego doesn't work out.

The Charlotte Van Damme Hornets: Belgians Strike Back

We'd have to trade for Frank Ntilikina though and ban Nic from making fun of Wallonia.

[fatlever]

Spurs 29th in pace last year (bugs were 9th)
27th 2 years ago (bugs 19th)
26th 3 years ago (bugs 18th)
Magic post asb 4 years ago 19th (bugs 22nd)

expect it to be slow, lower scoring games than we've seen lately *sigh*

[JDR720]

Spurs 29th in pace last year (bugs were 9th)
27th 2 years ago (bugs 19th)
26th 3 years ago (bugs 18th)
Magic post asb 4 years ago 19th (bugs 22nd)

expect it to be slow, lower scoring games than we've seen lately *sigh*

I feel like the slow pace is the complete opposite of what we should do. also feel its more likely we keep Dwight, playing slow usually means you need a post scorer of some sort.

[HornetJail]

Spurs 29th in pace last year (bugs were 9th)
27th 2 years ago (bugs 19th)
26th 3 years ago (bugs 18th)
Magic post asb 4 years ago 19th (bugs 22nd)

expect it to be slow, lower scoring games than we've seen lately *sigh*

that's a product of personnel. Aldridge naturally slows the game down. Remember those Blazers teams were always among the slowest paced teams in the league with Aldridge on board. Even when they sped things up with Lillard and Aldridge started to dislike the way they were playing, they were still at best an average paced team. The Spurs played quicker till they got guys like Aldridge, old man Pau, and Tony Parker really started to show his age... you're at an inherent disadvantage if you play too fast with guys like that.

We have very very different roster makeup than the Spurs. We can't really say that Borrego would slow the game down based on that - it's not like he made that decision for SA anyway, but even if he did, that would show that the game plan changes based on personnel. We have the personnel for an uptempo offense.