Kings Off-Season

[SacKingZZZ]

So, now the Temple decision decides where the Kings will stand monetarily. I'm OK with Kosta remaining on the team because he does fill a role as a screen setter, but the Kings better not roll out the same shortsighted garbage next year.

You should be able to predict this like the rising sun.

You know it is going to happen, everyone opts in.

Maybe we make a gamble and try a S&T for Gordon or something, but it will get matched.

I'm prepping for the eventual lineup up Fox, Temple, Shump, Zbo, and Kosta when the young guys don't practice hard enough.

Heck, you know what, the Kings don't have a '19 pick anyway. I say if they have to, give that unit 2 weeks to see what they can do. You never know. But if in that two weeks it doesn't look like much then start waiving.

[SacKingZZZ]

I'm really just bracing for the worst as far as everyone opting in, us making minimal free agent signings and drafting a project.

Just thinking about it, that could be the plan afterall, with all our chips being put in the 2019 free agent market since we don't have a draft pick then anyway. Maybe in their thinking, having this be another 'development year' before they try to reach the playoffs in 2019-2020 buys Vlade & Joerger an extra year of security/forgiveness.

Player development aside, if the Kings don't win 35 games next year would it be fair to fire Joerger after being given that^ starting lineup to work with?

The regime is under the gun this year, so I’d expect them to do all they think they can this summer. Even Vlade said he’d step down if it didn’t look better after this year. I don’t think they feel they could have that much time, or at least wouldn’t feel secure thinking that

Rather than trying to compete, Vlade needs to look at someone like Willie long and hard. Lets be realistic, he's going to cost a fortune to re-sign. He could be an end road in getting back into the next draft. I'd talk to Boston. Imagine him and Horford on the C's? Some team will remember that Willie was drafted on his potential as a switch defender and the C's are a prime example of a 21st century team knowing how you have to play to win in todays league.

[sacking123]

IMO Shump will opt in and we will work with him and his agent to get him to a contender. He wants to be on a winning team so if a team has a similar expiring that is useless to them we might have a deal. Adding to that I don't think WCS is out of the woods as being a part of it either. If we can get either a '19 or future 1st rounder for these 2 and expiring contract then you do it. A contender might just like the fact Shump will help them this year and they get a look at Willie too.
We absolutely don't want to stretch anyone. It's such a short sighted move and there is literally no one that we could sign that is going to move the bar. Stay the course and yes I think we could see a vet line up to start the season.
However I would like to see a Fox (he is the starter though)/Buddy/Bogi/Skal/Giles second unit that is along the run and gun lines. Would be really exciting and I think they would absolutely dominate 2nd units. All depends on the draft though Fox might be substituted by Trae Young in that.

[BoogieTime]

I'm really just bracing for the worst as far as everyone opting in, us making minimal free agent signings and drafting a project.

Just thinking about it, that could be the plan afterall, with all our chips being put in the 2019 free agent market since we don't have a draft pick then anyway. Maybe in their thinking, having this be another 'development year' before they try to reach the playoffs in 2019-2020 buys Vlade & Joerger an extra year of security/forgiveness.

Player development aside, if the Kings don't win 35 games next year would it be fair to fire Joerger after being given that^ starting lineup to work with?

The regime is under the gun this year, so I’d expect them to do all they think they can this summer. Even Vlade said he’d step down if it didn’t look better after this year. I don’t think they feel they could have that much time, or at least wouldn’t feel secure thinking that

Rather than trying to compete, Vlade needs to look at someone like Willie long and hard. Lets be realistic, he's going to cost a fortune to re-sign. He could be an end road in getting back into the next draft. I'd talk to Boston. Imagine him and Horford on the C's? Some team will remember that Willie was drafted on his potential as a switch defender and the C's are a prime example of a 21st century team knowing how you have to play to win in todays league.

I’m trying not to be negative here, but I’d move WCS for space. ~5 mil in this market is big, and I’ve been at the end of my rope with WCS for some time. I realize that’s the minority opinion, though, and I don’t expect that

[kalenclayton]

The regime is under the gun this year, so I’d expect them to do all they think they can this summer. Even Vlade said he’d step down if it didn’t look better after this year. I don’t think they feel they could have that much time, or at least wouldn’t feel secure thinking that

Rather than trying to compete, Vlade needs to look at someone like Willie long and hard. Lets be realistic, he's going to cost a fortune to re-sign. He could be an end road in getting back into the next draft. I'd talk to Boston. Imagine him and Horford on the C's? Some team will remember that Willie was drafted on his potential as a switch defender and the C's are a prime example of a 21st century team knowing how you have to play to win in todays league.

I’m trying not to be negative here, but I’d move WCS for space. ~5 mil in this market is big, and I’ve been at the end of my rope with WCS for some time. I realize that’s the minority opinion, though, and I don’t expect that

Moving Willie for space would be asset mismanagement to the max.

[LightTheBeam]

So, now the Temple decision decides where the Kings will stand monetarily. I'm OK with Kosta remaining on the team because he does fill a role as a screen setter, but the Kings better not roll out the same shortsighted garbage next year.

You should be able to predict this like the rising sun.

You know it is going to happen, everyone opts in.

Maybe we make a gamble and try a S&T for Gordon or something, but it will get matched.

I'm prepping for the eventual lineup up Fox, Temple, Shump, Zbo, and Kosta when the young guys don't practice hard enough.

Heck, you know what, the Kings don't have a '19 pick anyway. I say if they have to, give that unit 2 weeks to see what they can do. You never know. But if in that two weeks it doesn't look like much then start waiving.

Honestly if thats the opening day roster, as hard as it will be I wont watch. I will buy tickets just to stand behind the halftime show with a sign that says "Free Bogie, Free Buddy, Fire Joerger".

Coach said this year the training wheels come off. If Fox, Buddy, Bogdan don't immediately start out getting 30mpg it will feel like a stab in the back.

I'm okay letting Temple/Koufos get minutes. Id prefer we don't run Shump even a minute. Make it clear to his agent, your client won't see one minute on our team if he wants to collect his check he can do so from the end of the bench. Zach shouldn't be getting minutes either, but if he does it should be with the 2nd team who struggles to score. All depends on the draft but right now I want to see

WCS/Koufos
Skal/Zach
Bogie/Jackson
Buddy/Temple
Fox/Mason

Giles can play when hes ready. And depending on the draft pick, if its a small forward I wouldn't be upset if Jackson got kicked out of the rotation unless he proves he won't disappear 3 of every 4 games. And if its a big then ill assume one of WCS or Skal are gone, even though it should be Zach.

[LightTheBeam]

Rather than trying to compete, Vlade needs to look at someone like Willie long and hard. Lets be realistic, he's going to cost a fortune to re-sign. He could be an end road in getting back into the next draft. I'd talk to Boston. Imagine him and Horford on the C's? Some team will remember that Willie was drafted on his potential as a switch defender and the C's are a prime example of a 21st century team knowing how you have to play to win in todays league.

I’m trying not to be negative here, but I’d move WCS for space. ~5 mil in this market is big, and I’ve been at the end of my rope with WCS for some time. I realize that’s the minority opinion, though, and I don’t expect that

Moving Willie for space would be asset mismanagement to the max.

Yup. People are making it seem like WCS is going to demand a max, or even 15 mil per year. Right now I see his market closer to 10 million a year. Next year there will also be a ton of good free agents hitting the market.. Klay, Middleton, Kawhi, Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Rubio, Horford, Dwight, Kemba, Bledsoe and a bunch of guys with PO and RFA.

Teams will still have contracts on the books from the horrendous free agency including Parsons, Noah, Deng, Mozgov, Biyombo, ETC... I don't see any team putting him #1, #2 or #3 on their priority list. Id rather roll with him this year see how he does. If he starts out well don't we have until December to offer him an extension?

[kalenclayton]

I’m trying not to be negative here, but I’d move WCS for space. ~5 mil in this market is big, and I’ve been at the end of my rope with WCS for some time. I realize that’s the minority opinion, though, and I don’t expect that

Moving Willie for space would be asset mismanagement to the max.

Yup. People are making it seem like WCS is going to demand a max, or even 15 mil per year. Right now I see his market closer to 10 million a year. Next year there will also be a ton of good free agents hitting the market.. Klay, Middleton, Kawhi, Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Rubio, Horford, Dwight, Kemba, Bledsoe and a bunch of guys with PO and RFA.

Teams will still have contracts on the books from the horrendous free agency including Parsons, Noah, Deng, Mozgov, Biyombo, ETC... I don't see any team putting him #1, #2 or #3 on their priority list. Id rather roll with him this year see how he does. If he starts out well don't we have until December to offer him an extension?

Agreed all the way. I see a problem with Willie though. I remember watching his interview with Kayte Christensen last season where they were painting and talking. He mentioned that he was trying to get paid (like Deandre Jordan money). I hope that still isn’t his expectation. I see him going into negotiations asking for $70/4yrs. Obviously that’s too high. Hopefully he can be talked down to $50/4yrs. I’d be fine with a contract like that. He can be moved at that price.

[LightTheBeam]

Moving Willie for space would be asset mismanagement to the max.

Yup. People are making it seem like WCS is going to demand a max, or even 15 mil per year. Right now I see his market closer to 10 million a year. Next year there will also be a ton of good free agents hitting the market.. Klay, Middleton, Kawhi, Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Rubio, Horford, Dwight, Kemba, Bledsoe and a bunch of guys with PO and RFA.

Teams will still have contracts on the books from the horrendous free agency including Parsons, Noah, Deng, Mozgov, Biyombo, ETC... I don't see any team putting him #1, #2 or #3 on their priority list. Id rather roll with him this year see how he does. If he starts out well don't we have until December to offer him an extension?

Agreed all the way. I see a problem with Willie though. I remember watching his interview with Kayte Christensen last season where they were painting and talking. He mentioned that he was trying to get paid (like Deandre Jordan money). I hope that still isn’t his expectation. I see him going into negotiations asking for $70/4yrs. Obviously that’s too high. Hopefully he can be talked down to $50/4yrs. I’d be fine with a contract like that. He can be moved at that price.

I remember that segment. It came on after every Kings game for what felt like a month. I mean I wouldn't expect him to say any different.. I think the market will set the tone for what hes worth, hopefully that doesn't ruin our relationship with him. 4/50 is definitely movable for a WCS type.

[kalenclayton]

Yup. People are making it seem like WCS is going to demand a max, or even 15 mil per year. Right now I see his market closer to 10 million a year. Next year there will also be a ton of good free agents hitting the market.. Klay, Middleton, Kawhi, Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Rubio, Horford, Dwight, Kemba, Bledsoe and a bunch of guys with PO and RFA.

Teams will still have contracts on the books from the horrendous free agency including Parsons, Noah, Deng, Mozgov, Biyombo, ETC... I don't see any team putting him #1, #2 or #3 on their priority list. Id rather roll with him this year see how he does. If he starts out well don't we have until December to offer him an extension?

Agreed all the way. I see a problem with Willie though. I remember watching his interview with Kayte Christensen last season where they were painting and talking. He mentioned that he was trying to get paid (like Deandre Jordan money). I hope that still isn’t his expectation. I see him going into negotiations asking for $70/4yrs. Obviously that’s too high. Hopefully he can be talked down to $50/4yrs. I’d be fine with a contract like that. He can be moved at that price.

I remember that segment. It came on after every Kings game for what felt like a month. I mean I wouldn't expect him to say any different.. I think the market will set the tone for what hes worth, hopefully that doesn't ruin our relationship with him. 4/50 is definitely movable for a WCS type.

$60/4 seems to be my cutoff point and I think that still is hard to give him. He's maybe a top-20 center, but he could be a top-10 with his athleticism. His brain is just getting in the way.

[codydaze]

Agreed all the way. I see a problem with Willie though. I remember watching his interview with Kayte Christensen last season where they were painting and talking. He mentioned that he was trying to get paid (like Deandre Jordan money). I hope that still isn’t his expectation. I see him going into negotiations asking for $70/4yrs. Obviously that’s too high. Hopefully he can be talked down to $50/4yrs. I’d be fine with a contract like that. He can be moved at that price.

I remember that segment. It came on after every Kings game for what felt like a month. I mean I wouldn't expect him to say any different.. I think the market will set the tone for what hes worth, hopefully that doesn't ruin our relationship with him. 4/50 is definitely movable for a WCS type.

$60/4 seems to be my cutoff point and I think that still is hard to give him. He's maybe a top-20 center, but he could be a top-10 with his athleticism. His brain is just getting in the way.

I think the bright side here is that we'll likely have the leverage in negotiations as I don't expect there to be much of a market for him in free agency.

[kalenclayton]

I remember that segment. It came on after every Kings game for what felt like a month. I mean I wouldn't expect him to say any different.. I think the market will set the tone for what hes worth, hopefully that doesn't ruin our relationship with him. 4/50 is definitely movable for a WCS type.

$60/4 seems to be my cutoff point and I think that still is hard to give him. He's maybe a top-20 center, but he could be a top-10 with his athleticism. His brain is just getting in the way.

I think the bright side here is that we'll likely have the leverage in negotiations as I don't expect there to be much of a market for him in free agency.

Man I hope you are right. His contract will be an indicator of how much of a pushover Vlade is. If Vlade gets him down to $12m per year, maybe he isn’t that bad of a GM after all. I do think his performance has been blown out of proportion though. He’s surprisingly done a pretty decent job outside of the 76ers trade.

[LightTheBeam]

$60/4 seems to be my cutoff point and I think that still is hard to give him. He's maybe a top-20 center, but he could be a top-10 with his athleticism. His brain is just getting in the way.

I think the bright side here is that we'll likely have the leverage in negotiations as I don't expect there to be much of a market for him in free agency.

Man I hope you are right. His contract will be an indicator of how much of a pushover Vlade is. If Vlade gets him down to $12m per year, maybe he isn’t that bad of a GM after all. I do think his performance has been blown out of proportion though. He’s surprisingly done a pretty decent job outside of the 76ers trade.

Absolutely agree. Look at our roster Pre-Vlade

Cousins
Landy/Thompson
Gay/Casspi
Mclemore/Stauskas
Collison/Miller/Mccallum

I remember trying to convince myself that Mclemore, Mccallum could be studs. And that Cousins would take good vets like Gay/Landy/Collison to the next level.

He easily won the Bogdan trade by a large margin, even if we messed up with the Papa pick (though even in hindsight that draft was a crap shoot at that point). He easily won the Belinelli trade to Charlotte again even if the pick turned out to be nothing. He didn't hamstring us to Demarcus on the supermax which would have led to overpaying to keep injured Gay and Rondo.

At least now we have some hope with guys like Fox/Bogdan/Buddy/Jackson/Giles/Skal/WCS/Mason/2018 1st. Shump/Zach suck but at least they are expiring.

[codydaze]

I think the bright side here is that we'll likely have the leverage in negotiations as I don't expect there to be much of a market for him in free agency.

Man I hope you are right. His contract will be an indicator of how much of a pushover Vlade is. If Vlade gets him down to $12m per year, maybe he isn’t that bad of a GM after all. I do think his performance has been blown out of proportion though. He’s surprisingly done a pretty decent job outside of the 76ers trade.

Absolutely agree. Look at our roster Pre-Vlade

Cousins
Landy/Thompson
Gay/Casspi
Mclemore/Stauskas
Collison/Miller/Mccallum

I remember trying to convince myself that Mclemore, Mccallum could be studs. And that Cousins would take good vets like Gay/Landy/Collison to the next level.

At least now we have some hope with guys like Fox/Bogdan/Buddy/Jackson/Giles/Skal/WCS/Mason/2018 1st. Shump/Zach suck but at least they are expiring.

Sad, sad times when Grievis Vasquez to D-Thrill alley oops were what we had to get us hyped.

[kingjawn100]

Fox was on the ringer pod today. Couple interesting things that stuck out...

1. He said he’a trying to tweak his shot and is looking at tape from high school for mechanics. Im not sure this is a great thing. I know he didn’t shoot the ball that well last year but he also wasn’t awful. You just don’t want a Markelle Fultz issue all over again. I feel like he’ll get some improvement alone from repetition without altering form.

2. Fox didn’t seem to be a huge fan of drafting Doncic as opposed to the american guys, citing the small number of overseas players who have had success here. He wasn’t insulting him but he sounded much more in favor of Bagley/Ayton/Porter should we move up.

He’s been working out with some players getting ready for the draft who are actually older than him. Funny/strange but we forget Fox was just in high school a couple years ago.

[kalenclayton]

I think the bright side here is that we'll likely have the leverage in negotiations as I don't expect there to be much of a market for him in free agency.

Man I hope you are right. His contract will be an indicator of how much of a pushover Vlade is. If Vlade gets him down to $12m per year, maybe he isn’t that bad of a GM after all. I do think his performance has been blown out of proportion though. He’s surprisingly done a pretty decent job outside of the 76ers trade.

Absolutely agree. Look at our roster Pre-Vlade

Cousins
Landy/Thompson
Gay/Casspi
Mclemore/Stauskas
Collison/Miller/Mccallum

I remember trying to convince myself that Mclemore, Mccallum could be studs. And that Cousins would take good vets like Gay/Landy/Collison to the next level.

He easily won the Bogdan trade by a large margin, even if we messed up with the Papa pick (though even in hindsight that draft was a crap shoot at that point). He easily won the Belinelli trade to Charlotte again even if the pick turned out to be nothing. He didn't hamstring us to Demarcus on the supermax which would have led to overpaying to keep injured Gay and Rondo.

At least now we have some hope with guys like Fox/Bogdan/Buddy/Jackson/Giles/Skal/WCS/Mason/2018 1st. Shump/Zach suck but at least they are expiring.

Now we are seeing a proper rebuild. It’s much better than when Boogie and Reke were said to be the future and we decided it was time to compete (save money). We are finally seeing stability. It may not be helmed by the best of the best, but it’s stability nonetheless. Our squad doesn’t have a number 1 guy on it, but we can see a goal ahead of us and it’s refreshing to see.

[BoogieTime]

I think the bright side here is that we'll likely have the leverage in negotiations as I don't expect there to be much of a market for him in free agency.

Man I hope you are right. His contract will be an indicator of how much of a pushover Vlade is. If Vlade gets him down to $12m per year, maybe he isn’t that bad of a GM after all. I do think his performance has been blown out of proportion though. He’s surprisingly done a pretty decent job outside of the 76ers trade.

Absolutely agree. Look at our roster Pre-Vlade

Cousins
Landy/Thompson
Gay/Casspi
Mclemore/Stauskas
Collison/Miller/Mccallum

I remember trying to convince myself that Mclemore, Mccallum could be studs. And that Cousins would take good vets like Gay/Landy/Collison to the next level.

He easily won the Bogdan trade by a large margin, even if we messed up with the Papa pick (though even in hindsight that draft was a crap shoot at that point). He easily won the Belinelli trade to Charlotte again even if the pick turned out to be nothing. He didn't hamstring us to Demarcus on the supermax which would have led to overpaying to keep injured Gay and Rondo.

At least now we have some hope with guys like Fox/Bogdan/Buddy/Jackson/Giles/Skal/WCS/Mason/2018 1st. Shump/Zach suck but at least they are expiring.

He won the Bogdan trade down, I agree with that. Other than that.. WCS hasn’t panned as I would like. The Philly trade. The Philly trade in order to sign an Achilles Matthews. Who he drafted in 2016 Papa/Malachi/Skal haven’t come to fruition, yet. The team was panned for not getting enough for Cousins, and he may have bungled the actual transaction, getting a pick less. Reports has it he tried to trade Cousins for Vucevic and Fournier.. waiving Matt Barnes instead of buying him out. Last years draft, is arguable. I like Fox, but many neutral fans wouldn’t take him 5 as of right now in a redraft. Jackson.. (we’ll see about Giles).. Not really any FA success, bad money last year with Hill/Randolph. Not tanking right so we pick 7

I can give him the Bogdan trade back, though

[LightTheBeam]

Man I hope you are right. His contract will be an indicator of how much of a pushover Vlade is. If Vlade gets him down to $12m per year, maybe he isn’t that bad of a GM after all. I do think his performance has been blown out of proportion though. He’s surprisingly done a pretty decent job outside of the 76ers trade.

Absolutely agree. Look at our roster Pre-Vlade

Cousins
Landy/Thompson
Gay/Casspi
Mclemore/Stauskas
Collison/Miller/Mccallum

I remember trying to convince myself that Mclemore, Mccallum could be studs. And that Cousins would take good vets like Gay/Landy/Collison to the next level.

He easily won the Bogdan trade by a large margin, even if we messed up with the Papa pick (though even in hindsight that draft was a crap shoot at that point). He easily won the Belinelli trade to Charlotte again even if the pick turned out to be nothing. He didn't hamstring us to Demarcus on the supermax which would have led to overpaying to keep injured Gay and Rondo.

At least now we have some hope with guys like Fox/Bogdan/Buddy/Jackson/Giles/Skal/WCS/Mason/2018 1st. Shump/Zach suck but at least they are expiring.

He won the Bogdan trade down, I agree with that. Other than that.. WCS hasn’t panned as I would like. The Philly trade. The Philly trade in order to sign an Achilles Matthews. Who he drafted in 2016 Papa/Malachi/Skal haven’t come to fruition, yet. The team was panned for not getting enough for Cousins, and he may have bungled the actual transaction, getting a pick less. Reports has it he tried to trade Cousins for Vucevic and Fournier.. waiving Matt Barnes instead of buying him out. Last years draft, is arguable. I like Fox, but many neutral fans wouldn’t take him 5 as of right now in a redraft. Jackson.. (we’ll see about Giles).. Not really any FA success, bad money last year with Hill/Randolph. Not tanking right so we pick 7

I can give him the Bogdan trade back, though

We already agreed that the Philly trade was trash.

Go look at that 2016 draft again. It was absolutely trash. It isn't like we made some huge mistake and the next pick was a stud, there was no right answer for that draft.

The reason we lost a pick for Cousins was that Cousins agent didn't want him to be traded because he was set to lose his supermax. He came out prior to the trade and told the Pelicans he wouldn't resign there.

As for Fox not being taken top 5 again, its still very early for this draft so its hard to say. I only have Tatum, Mitchell, and Lauri absolutely ahead of him. An argument can be made for Josh Jackson, Ball, and DSJ. Even if this draft was absolutely stacked so we are going to see a lot of stars and nobody expected Lauri or Mitchell to jump the way they did.

Jackson the jury is still out on. I wanted OG, I said that many times prior to last years draft. That said OG made an excellent recovery and the jury is still out on Jackson. If Giles pans out, that trade will easily be a win.

The FA most of us agree was a bad idea, but I can't blame Joerger/Vlade for wanting to build a culture. I blame Joerger more for not tanking than Vlade, that is the coaches fault not Vlades.

[kalenclayton]

Man I hope you are right. His contract will be an indicator of how much of a pushover Vlade is. If Vlade gets him down to $12m per year, maybe he isn’t that bad of a GM after all. I do think his performance has been blown out of proportion though. He’s surprisingly done a pretty decent job outside of the 76ers trade.

Absolutely agree. Look at our roster Pre-Vlade

Cousins
Landy/Thompson
Gay/Casspi
Mclemore/Stauskas
Collison/Miller/Mccallum

I remember trying to convince myself that Mclemore, Mccallum could be studs. And that Cousins would take good vets like Gay/Landy/Collison to the next level.

He easily won the Bogdan trade by a large margin, even if we messed up with the Papa pick (though even in hindsight that draft was a crap shoot at that point). He easily won the Belinelli trade to Charlotte again even if the pick turned out to be nothing. He didn't hamstring us to Demarcus on the supermax which would have led to overpaying to keep injured Gay and Rondo.

At least now we have some hope with guys like Fox/Bogdan/Buddy/Jackson/Giles/Skal/WCS/Mason/2018 1st. Shump/Zach suck but at least they are expiring.

He won the Bogdan trade down, I agree with that. Other than that.. WCS hasn’t panned as I would like. The Philly trade. The Philly trade in order to sign an Achilles Matthews. Who he drafted in 2016 Papa/Malachi/Skal haven’t come to fruition, yet. The team was panned for not getting enough for Cousins, and he may have bungled the actual transaction, getting a pick less. Reports has it he tried to trade Cousins for Vucevic and Fournier.. waiving Matt Barnes instead of buying him out. Last years draft, is arguable. I like Fox, but many neutral fans wouldn’t take him 5 as of right now in a redraft. Jackson.. (we’ll see about Giles).. Not really any FA success, bad money last year with Hill/Randolph. Not tanking right so we pick 7

I can give him the Bogdan trade back, though

Why are you always so negative? I feel like you actively try to be negative on this forum.

Your post seems a bit revisionist and a bit misguided. You said Willie hasn’t worked out the way you’d like. I don’t see how that is on Vlade. Willie is a peculiar dude and he’s has different expectations for himself as opposed to the team and general public. He was drafted to be Boogie’s perfect fit. That obviously didn’t work out, but it seemed pretty great at the time. Even national media was good with the pick. The only other linked options were Justice Winslow and Emmanuel Mudiay. I’m glad we got Willie instead.

You mentioned that Vlade won the Bogdan trade but then you say the picks weren’t good. Even the national media liked the Skal and Malachi picks. Papa was puzzling for sure, but the other picks were fine or even good. We can even say that Vlade did a good job during that draft because that draft was terrible. If you say he could’ve drafted Caris Levert, Dejounte Murray, or Malcolm Brogdon, then I will say that hindsight is 20/20. Murray was the only one of that group who was overlooked at the time. Kings fans wanted him, but it didn’t happen.

We’ve already been over the 76ers trade. It was awful both then and now. I’ll give you the Boogie handling. I thought he Kings could’ve gotten more for Boogie, but I also understood that the emotional lesbian was a lot to handle. Who knows how true Vlade’s statement of the “we had a better deal 2 days ago” was. He said that the agent screwed the deal. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn’t. Who knows?

The reports of Boogie for Vuc and Fournier could’ve just been rumors. You can’t hold that against Vlade when it didn’t happen.

The Barnes waiving was relatively bad. I’ll give you that. Barnes probably rejected a buyout (seems very likely) but the Kings could’ve just waived him instead of stretching him.

Your Fox comment is highly revisionist and is unfair. Fox was absolutely the target and even national media applauded the pick. Who cares if you wouldn’t take him at 5 now. It looked great then and the jury is out on how it will turn out. Chill dude.

The Hill signing looked great at the time. Again, us fans and national media liked the signing at the time. It looked smart. Randolph was puzzling so I’ll give you that.

Who knows if the Kings will turn out better from developing instead of tanking near the end of the season. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I wanted to tank as well, but maybe this was beneficial. I don’t know that answer.

I think you should take a step back and look at what happened when it happened. Don’t look back in hindsight. All that does is create false expectations for the past. You can’t change it, so why worry about it? Argue with the facts that happened when they happened.

[BoogieTime]

Absolutely agree. Look at our roster Pre-Vlade

Cousins
Landy/Thompson
Gay/Casspi
Mclemore/Stauskas
Collison/Miller/Mccallum

I remember trying to convince myself that Mclemore, Mccallum could be studs. And that Cousins would take good vets like Gay/Landy/Collison to the next level.

He easily won the Bogdan trade by a large margin, even if we messed up with the Papa pick (though even in hindsight that draft was a crap shoot at that point). He easily won the Belinelli trade to Charlotte again even if the pick turned out to be nothing. He didn't hamstring us to Demarcus on the supermax which would have led to overpaying to keep injured Gay and Rondo.

At least now we have some hope with guys like Fox/Bogdan/Buddy/Jackson/Giles/Skal/WCS/Mason/2018 1st. Shump/Zach suck but at least they are expiring.

He won the Bogdan trade down, I agree with that. Other than that.. WCS hasn’t panned as I would like. The Philly trade. The Philly trade in order to sign an Achilles Matthews. Who he drafted in 2016 Papa/Malachi/Skal haven’t come to fruition, yet. The team was panned for not getting enough for Cousins, and he may have bungled the actual transaction, getting a pick less. Reports has it he tried to trade Cousins for Vucevic and Fournier.. waiving Matt Barnes instead of buying him out. Last years draft, is arguable. I like Fox, but many neutral fans wouldn’t take him 5 as of right now in a redraft. Jackson.. (we’ll see about Giles).. Not really any FA success, bad money last year with Hill/Randolph. Not tanking right so we pick 7

I can give him the Bogdan trade back, though

We already agreed that the Philly trade was trash.

Go look at that 2016 draft again. It was absolutely trash. It isn't like we made some huge mistake and the next pick was a stud, there was no right answer for that draft.

The reason we lost a pick for Cousins was that Cousins agent didn't want him to be traded because he was set to lose his supermax. He came out prior to the trade and told the Pelicans he wouldn't resign there.

As for Fox not being taken top 5 again, its still very early for this draft so its hard to say. I only have Tatum, Mitchell, and Lauri absolutely ahead of him. An argument can be made for Josh Jackson, Ball, and DSJ. Even if this draft was absolutely stacked so we are going to see a lot of stars and nobody expected Lauri or Mitchell to jump the way they did.

Jackson the jury is still out on. I wanted OG, I said that many times prior to last years draft. That said OG made an excellent recovery and the jury is still out on Jackson. If Giles pans out, that trade will easily be a win.

The FA most of us agree was a bad idea, but I can't blame Joerger/Vlade for wanting to build a culture. I blame Joerger more for not tanking than Vlade, that is the coaches fault not Vlades.

The incentive for the Philly trade was trash too, which points to judgement. 2016 draft may have been trash, but trash to the point of being able to unload players 1.5 years in? The pick itself of Papa was panned as outlandish. ‘Maybe’ a more experienced/nuanced GM could still have gotten that extra Pelicans pick (trading him without agent knowledge?). I think a coach will try to win anyways, for his coaching record, and the command comes higher up.

I guess it’s arguable point by point, but personally I think the only thing a neutral would say he’s hit on is Bogdan, whether that changes in the future or not. Do you support him as GM of this team?