The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL)

[Revived]

This is something that many scouting reports have on Ayton

Intensity wanes, which has been a knock since he was young; is that because of fatigue, focus, or his mind-set?

This is downright scary for a big man. Reminds me of guys like Bynum, Thabeet, Sanders, hell even our own top 5 pick Len has this problem as well.

[Jwetz83]

I don't believe this is true. Gordon Hayward was their guy and for a brief moment when he left and Mitchell hadn't quite emerged as a star yet, Gobert may have been their 'franchise guy'.

He's the best defensive player in the world right now and Utah wins games off their defense. He is their franchise player. Even his offense is coming along well.

He isn't a role player by any means.

He's an elite role player. How many franchise guys are almost exclusively defense first guys? In an offense first league, can you really build a team around Gobert as your franchise guy? Or do you build it around Mitchell?

The Suns need to build their team around Booker. Being able to stop people and play the pick and roll is just as an important as another scorer.

[saintEscaton]

We will see how far this team will go as Booker as their #1. We need a complete roster overhaul/change of philosophy to even sniff the playoffs IMO

[saintEscaton]

I don't believe this is true. Gordon Hayward was their guy and for a brief moment when he left and Mitchell hadn't quite emerged as a star yet, Gobert may have been their 'franchise guy'.

He's the best defensive player in the world right now and Utah wins games off their defense. He is their franchise player. Even his offense is coming along well.

He isn't a role player by any means.

He's an elite role player. How many franchise guys are almost exclusively defense first guys? In an offense first league, can you really build a team around Gobert as your franchise guy? Or do you build it around Mitchell?

He was single handedly responsible for 20 wins himself, ignoring the statistical noise

[thamadkant]

Been watching a lot of Ayton college games and it looks like he's focused on guarding the perimeter shot, which he's done well at.

But he just watched the other team's players drive into the paint and he doesnt move... he could have easily made a move to block the shot from the back, but he just focused on guarding the 3pt or long 2.


He does go for blocks if someone tries to shoot in front of him and he does well making them miss.... but he could easily have gotten 1 or 2 more blocks a game if he actually moves for the help defense..

I think this is fixable..... very fixable

[AtheJ415]

With Ayton you have a big star potential

And Doncic you have a player you might have a lower ceiling as far as super star potential, but he would make “the suns” star ( Booker) and other suns better.

If the Suns were in the first stage of the rebuild, without booker then I think Ayton would be the pick. You then would build your roster around him.

But with Booker and the others already on the roster, I think you take Doncic. He would just make everyone better. Look what Simmons has done for the 76 ers.

If you wanted to take a big, I think Bamba is the way to go. But that would require the suns trading back to 3 and getting value from the Hawks to move up.

Signing of Redick, Bellineli, Ilyasova
Improvement of Saric
Healthy Embiid

are also all critical.

In the playoffs, 76ers were better without Simmons on the court against Celtics, due to Simmons lack of shooting

Yes but Doncic can shoot. So teams would have to play him honest. Look at how Simmons has been successful without a jump shot. Just imagine what Doncic can do and how the floor spacing improves.

Well, to play Devil's advocate a bit, Doncic isn't a great shooter. He is an advanced shooter in that he can hit various difficult shots, but his overall percentages are not particularly good from 3 (I think 31 or 33%). I could actually argue Ayton is as good a shooter as Doncic given how money he is from mid-range. That said, I do think Doncic ends up a good shooter in the NBA.

[saintEscaton]

Zhaire Smith at 16 would be solid too

[Revived]

Well, to play Devil's advocate a bit, Doncic isn't a great shooter. He is an advanced shooter in that he can hit various difficult shots, but his overall percentages are not particularly good from 3 (I think 31 or 33%). I could actually argue Ayton is as good a shooter as Doncic given how money he is from mid-range. That said, I do think Doncic ends up a good shooter in the NBA.

His percentages aren't good because he was forced to take a ton of last second 3s and such because of being put in a difficult position.

And this also had something to do with it

Read on Twitter

Ayton is not a better shooter than Doncic, stop that. Ayton's a better post scorer, rebounder and inside presence but now the Ayton stans are gonna say he's a better shooter too? No.

[Villalobos]

Been watching a lot of Ayton college games and it looks like he's focused on guarding the perimeter shot, which he's done well at.

But he just watched the other team's players drive into the paint and he doesnt move... he could have easily made a move to block the shot from the back, but he just focused on guarding the 3pt or long 2.


He does go for blocks if someone tries to shoot in front of him and he does well making them miss.... but he could easily have gotten 1 or 2 more blocks a game if he actually moves for the help defense..

I think this is fixable..... very fixable

How often is bad rim protection in college fixed in the pros? I honestly can't think of one example.

[lilfishi22]

Been watching a lot of Ayton college games and it looks like he's focused on guarding the perimeter shot, which he's done well at.

But he just watched the other team's players drive into the paint and he doesnt move... he could have easily made a move to block the shot from the back, but he just focused on guarding the 3pt or long 2.


He does go for blocks if someone tries to shoot in front of him and he does well making them miss.... but he could easily have gotten 1 or 2 more blocks a game if he actually moves for the help defense..

I think this is fixable..... very fixable

I saw the same thing. He's very good guarding out to the perimeter when he's locked on and pretty good even switching on the perimeter to another guard. Where he falls down is his overall awareness on the weakside. When he does recognize a play happening on the weakside, it's often too late and either the help isn't there or he just can't get there in time. He definitely needs to work on that and I think it is teachable

[lilfishi22]

I don't think it's constructive calling those who favor Ayton, stans. Similarly, it's not constructive calling those leaning toward Doncic, fanboys either. If you have an issue with a poster's critique or evaluation of a player, just critique their posts.

[TheLogician]

Been watching a lot of Ayton college games and it looks like he's focused on guarding the perimeter shot, which he's done well at.

But he just watched the other team's players drive into the paint and he doesnt move... he could have easily made a move to block the shot from the back, but he just focused on guarding the 3pt or long 2.


He does go for blocks if someone tries to shoot in front of him and he does well making them miss.... but he could easily have gotten 1 or 2 more blocks a game if he actually moves for the help defense..

I think this is fixable..... very fixable

How often is bad rim protection in college fixed in the pros? I honestly can't think of one example.

Draymond Green averaged .2 blocks his freshman year and .8 through his college career. Capela averaged .8 blocks at 20 years old and now at 23 he averages 1.9. This stuff can be fixed. Same reason you hire a tutor for one one one help on math homework. You can catch up with the rest of the class pretty quickly.

[bwgood77]

We will see how far this team will go as Booker as their #1. We need a complete roster overhaul/change of philosophy to even sniff the playoffs IMO

Well I think we are getting the change of philosophy with the coaching change. And he may be the #1 now or are leading scorer but being that we just took one of the top recruits last year and we have the top pick in what is supposed to be a great draft especially at the top, if those picks pan out and develop, Booker may not necessarily be our best player, just likely our best shooter.

Hopefully we end up with 3 top 30-35 players or so and we will probably have another fairly high pick next year as long as we don't do something foolish like trade our own unprotected or lightly protected pick assuming we will be really good next year. We will likely add something, hopefully something pretty good in free agency this summer and perhaps trade.

We should turn the corner next year and begin to improve and as Koko develops these guys hopefuly we develop some nice chemistry and continuity over the next decade.

[lilfishi22]

Been watching a lot of Ayton college games and it looks like he's focused on guarding the perimeter shot, which he's done well at.

But he just watched the other team's players drive into the paint and he doesnt move... he could have easily made a move to block the shot from the back, but he just focused on guarding the 3pt or long 2.


He does go for blocks if someone tries to shoot in front of him and he does well making them miss.... but he could easily have gotten 1 or 2 more blocks a game if he actually moves for the help defense..

I think this is fixable..... very fixable

How often is bad rim protection in college fixed in the pros? I honestly can't think of one example.

I think it's fixable just in terms of adjusting defensive positioning. I don't now what his perimeter defensive efficiency looks like but if it's excellent, perhaps he can pull back and stay closer to the rim for more rim protection, especially if you can surround him with better perimeter defenders.

[TheLogician]

I'm not knocking Doncic's shooting because I think he'll be fine in that department. But Ayton's mechanics are pretty special for a 19 year old big man.

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

I don't believe this is true. Gordon Hayward was their guy and for a brief moment when he left and Mitchell hadn't quite emerged as a star yet, Gobert may have been their 'franchise guy'.

He's the best defensive player in the world right now and Utah wins games off their defense. He is their franchise player. Even his offense is coming along well.

He isn't a role player by any means.

He's an elite role player. How many franchise guys are almost exclusively defense first guys? In an offense first league, can you really build a team around Gobert as your franchise guy? Or do you build it around Mitchell?

I don't understand this question. They have both of them? Why do they have to choose one or the other? Can they not build it around both?

[Jkam31]

I wasn’t coming in here hostile if anybody thinks that, I’m just a Kong’s fan interested in what you guys want and need at 1. We are linked together now having 1 and 2 so I’m in here seeing who you guys love.

As for us we’re mostly split I think between Ayton/Doncic and it’s a win win for us. I have Doncic at 1 and would love a future small ball lineup with him at PF.

House SunKings until I rival takes off soon


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[AtheJ415]

Well, to play Devil's advocate a bit, Doncic isn't a great shooter. He is an advanced shooter in that he can hit various difficult shots, but his overall percentages are not particularly good from 3 (I think 31 or 33%). I could actually argue Ayton is as good a shooter as Doncic given how money he is from mid-range. That said, I do think Doncic ends up a good shooter in the NBA.

His percentages aren't good because he was forced to take a ton of last second 3s and such because of being put in a difficult position.

And this also had something to do with it

Read on Twitter

Ayton is not a better shooter than Doncic, stop that. Ayton's a better post scorer, rebounder and inside presence but now the Ayton stans are gonna say he's a better shooter too? No.

First, you clearly didn't read my post because I specifically said Doncic takes difficult shots. Second, Ayton is a tremendous shooter (64/34/73) at 7'1"/260, and it's not like he's sitting there taking just dunks like Capela. His go to move is a faceup jumper from about 15 feet, and he hits it at a crazy clip.

Besides, if we're really going to be going for shooting above all else we should just go ahead and take Young or Porter, who are both better shooters than Doncic and Ayton.

[AtheJ415]

Been watching a lot of Ayton college games and it looks like he's focused on guarding the perimeter shot, which he's done well at.

But he just watched the other team's players drive into the paint and he doesnt move... he could have easily made a move to block the shot from the back, but he just focused on guarding the 3pt or long 2.


He does go for blocks if someone tries to shoot in front of him and he does well making them miss.... but he could easily have gotten 1 or 2 more blocks a game if he actually moves for the help defense..

I think this is fixable..... very fixable

How often is bad rim protection in college fixed in the pros? I honestly can't think of one example.

Ben Simmons was a horrible defender in college who played incredibly lazy basketball. I know he's not a center really and it's not specific to rim protection, but there are plenty of bad defenders in college who ended up good defenders in the NBA. It is obviously more telling if you are a good defender, but guys improve in various areas with more time and experience and better coaching and training. Defense isn't an exception to that rule.

[lilfishi22]

He's the best defensive player in the world right now and Utah wins games off their defense. He is their franchise player. Even his offense is coming along well.

He isn't a role player by any means.

He's an elite role player. How many franchise guys are almost exclusively defense first guys? In an offense first league, can you really build a team around Gobert as your franchise guy? Or do you build it around Mitchell?

I don't understand this question. They have both of them? Why do they have to choose one or the other? Can they not build it around both?

It's got nothing to do with Utah. It started with the Revive's comparison between Bamba and Gobert. My assertion was that Bamba may have Gobert level defensive potential but I don't view Gobert/Bamba as franchise level players. Obviously the definition of a franchise guy isn't set in stone but I still see Bamba as a potential elite role player rather than a star because I don't view elite defensive guys as stars. How many almost exclusively defensive players are franchise guys? The key difference between a DPOY level player like Gobert and a DPOY level/clear franchise guy like Anthony Davis is offense.

Anyway, my other point is that you're looking for a franchise guy, ideally a transcendent talent. When you have a great chance of getting the best guy in the draft' drafting a prospect with elite role player ceiling(imo) seems wasteful.