The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Jwetz83]

What if Atlanta comes with an offer for pick 1. Would anyone listen and at what cost ??


My thoughts. If the price is right I wouldn’t mind sliding back to 3.

Worse case is that the suns end up with Bamba.
Best case Doncic threats force the kIngs to go elsewhere and the Suns end up with Doncic at 3.

So my question is at what price do you gamble ?

For example is the Hawks offer schrador, 3 and 19 for pick 1.

Is Bamba and 2 other assets better than Ayton ?

Atlanta does not have anything I would want to move down. They are rebuilding, so they are not going to give up future picks. If anything they will want to trade down and stockpile picks.

Atlanta needs a Superstar to build around. If they fall in love with Ayton, the will be willing to move up.

I’m just not sold on Ayton. His lack of aggression worries me. I’m much more a fan of Bamba but I can’t see the Suns taking him without trading down.

[jcsunsfan]

I am totally sold on Ayton.

[LukasBMW]

Would you rather have a traditional lineup?

-PG
-Booker (a pure SG)
-Jackson (a pure SF)
-Best of Chriss/Bender (both are TRUE PF's)
-Ayton (A true center)

Add the right PG and it's a traditional lineup BUT all can hit the 3 and cover the "freaks" that dominate those positions now.

OR

Would you rather have position-less backetball

-Doncic
-Booker
-Jackson
-Chriss
-Bender

What exactly is that? I don't know. 2 shooting guards, a small forward, and two power forwards? I don't think that lineup is BIG enough to handle traditional bigs nor do I think it is quick enough to handle traditional guards. I think we'd get creamed.

[LukasBMW]

Warning ROSTERBATION:

Imagine...

Booker handles the ball top of the key weak side. Knight hangs out at the angle 3 strong side. TJ hides at the corner 3 strong side. Chriss starts on the low block strong side. Ayton starts at the low block weak side.

Ayton comes up to set a pick for Booker. It looks like a traditional pick and roll. But as Ayton comes up, TJ curls towards the hoop as Chriss sets a screen for TJ. As Ayton comes up to screen Booker, Booker can:

1. Drive and score if he beats his man.
2. Use the Ayton screen to separate and pop
3. Drive and dish on the roll to Ayton if he is doubled
4. Find an open sneaky TJ at the basket
5. Drive and possibly find a trailer in Chriss or Ayton
6. Drive and kick out to Knight at the top of the key for a open 3 assuming Chriss set the screen for TJ and then went on to set a screen for Knight.

So what I'm sayng: Booker + Ayton opens **** up for TJ and even guys like Chriss and Knight.

Knight actually is a decent catch and shoot guy. If we can turn him into an "off ball" PG who only comes off screens to shoot, then he comes the new QRich. Some games he will go 6 for 8. Some he will go 1 for 7.

[jcsunsfan]

Would you rather have a traditional lineup?

-PG
-Booker (a pure SG)
-Jackson (a pure SF)
-Best of Chriss/Bender (both are TRUE PF's)
-Ayton (A true center)

Add the right PG and it's a traditional lineup BUT all can hit the 3 and cover the "freaks" that dominate those positions now.

OR

Would you rather have position-less backetball

-Doncic
-Booker
-Jackson
-Chriss
-Bender

What exactly is that? I don't know. 2 shooting guards, a small forward, and two power forwards? I don't think that lineup is BIG enough to handle traditional bigs nor do I think it is quick enough to handle traditional guards. I think we'd get creamed.

Is this even a question. I go with the first one. Easy.

[MrMiyagi]

Would you rather have a traditional lineup?

-PG
-Booker (a pure SG)
-Jackson (a pure SF)
-Best of Chriss/Bender (both are TRUE PF's)
-Ayton (A true center)

Add the right PG and it's a traditional lineup BUT all can hit the 3 and cover the "freaks" that dominate those positions now.

OR

Would you rather have position-less backetball

-Doncic
-Booker
-Jackson
-Chriss
-Bender

What exactly is that? I don't know. 2 shooting guards, a small forward, and two power forwards? I don't think that lineup is BIG enough to handle traditional bigs nor do I think it is quick enough to handle traditional guards. I think we'd get creamed.

The first.

I think Boston, Golden State, Houston, and Cleveland would all love to have a center like Ayton. Ayton isn't a finished product defensively, but I think he can be taught. Like, if you were to design a guy to play center in today's NBA, the player you'd design would physically be a lot like Ayton. And I think the first lineup can do a lot of the stuff the second lineup does, but it also grabs a lot more rebounds and has a guy who you can dump the ball to in the post and can make a play.

[Qwigglez]

This hasn't been mentioned very much until Lukas's post above, but talking about positionless basketball, we have Brandon Knight who can bring the ball up and play off the ball. I know everyone has written him off after his poor performance in the 2016-17 season, but he was coming off the bench for Earl Watson. Let him be the starter again and I can see him easily putting up 15-17 points, 5 assists, 4 boards. With the addition of Ayton, Knight's resurgence, and another summer of developing our youth, I think we might be able to squeeze into the playoffs. Booker said this is the last year he isn't making it, so he's putting a lot of pressure upon himself, but I don't doubt him.

[Jkam31]

OK let's assume Doncic kicks up a stink trying to finesse his way to a team of his choice, how far down does he drop before a team just says IDGAF and drafts him?

I heard he's not keen on Sacramento or Atlanta but maybe he could be sold on playing with Marc Gasol in Memphis. They are picking at #4.

Where did you hear this and do you have a link


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[TheLogician]

OK let's assume Doncic kicks up a stink trying to finesse his way to a team of his choice, how far down does he drop before a team just says IDGAF and drafts him?

I heard he's not keen on Sacramento or Atlanta but maybe he could be sold on playing with Marc Gasol in Memphis. They are picking at #4.

Where did you hear this and do you have a link


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Sorry, I don't remember. I listened to several draft podcasts today and they all meld together. It's obviously a rumor at this point because nothing has been reported or explicitly stated by Doncic/Duffy. It was mentioned in the same breath that Atlanta is very high on Bagley anyway.

[sunskerr]

Do you even have to game plan against bigs these days? Most teams just seem to go out and do modern NBA things on offense and don't seem worried at all when other team does an Aldridge or Embiid isolation in the post. It doesn't even seem worth it to game plan your defense for that anymore, since your own offense is already better than your opponent's if your opponent is going in to post so often that you consider game planning. Just cover their 3 point shooters and cutters and laugh when they go to a post up.

The only thing that matters with Ayton right now, since he already projects well offensively, is if he can defend. Can he switch off quickly on a screen? Can he defend a guard on the perimeter and not give them room to shoot? Can he block shots when helping his teammates and can he also block shots when a guard is driving at him? It's less important that he's "athletic for his size" than it is to be flat out quick enough to do every single one of those things.

[Bob8]

Would you rather have a traditional lineup?

-PG
-Booker (a pure SG)
-Jackson (a pure SF)
-Best of Chriss/Bender (both are TRUE PF's)
-Ayton (A true center)

Add the right PG and it's a traditional lineup BUT all can hit the 3 and cover the "freaks" that dominate those positions now.

OR

Would you rather have position-less backetball

-Doncic
-Booker
-Jackson
-Chriss
-Bender

What exactly is that? I don't know. 2 shooting guards, a small forward, and two power forwards? I don't think that lineup is BIG enough to handle traditional bigs nor do I think it is quick enough to handle traditional guards. I think we'd get creamed.

Where is pick #16 and possible FA? Post season will be crucial, whoever they draft. If they get good FA C, option #2 looks very good. If they draft Ayton, they will still need good Pg to do anything notable in the league.

People, who believe than only Ayton can change the worst team in the league to playoffs team, are delusional. Suns needs much more than only Ayton/Doncic to become good team. Kokoskov is a good coach but expectations are out of the hands at the moment.

[Puff]

I haven't given up on Payton for next year. That is if we cannot make a deal for someone considerably better. Who knows, a legit center and a new coach could do wonders for him.

I think he cut that pile of crap off the top of his head.

I just don't want to see some dumb trade or horrible free agent signing, I think we can get him on a reasonable 1 or 2 year deal. I would prefer a 1 year prove yourself deal. The summer of 19 is when we need to make our free agent splash. We really should know a whole lot more about what we really have after Koko gets one year with this group.

[Revived]

I am totally sold on Ayton.

Wow couldn't tell earlier...

[Bob8]

When people are evaluating Doncic’s athleticism, they tend to forget how big he’s. I know he’s the nearest to the lens, but his body looks really big. Rodriguez looks like a little kid in comparison to him. There’s not many Pgs in the league with body like that. He has body of a Pf.

[Saberestar]

When people are evaluating Doncic’s athleticism, they tend to forget how big he’s. I know he’s the nearest to the lens, but his body looks really big. Rodriguez looks like a little kid in comparison to him. There’s not many Pgs in the league with body like that. He has body of a Pf.

Come on...he is closer to the camera, that is why he looks like a giant on that photo.

He is 6'8, 230 lbs...on that photo he is bigger than Yao Ming.

[Bob8]

When people are evaluating Doncic’s athleticism, they tend to forget how big he’s. I know he’s the nearest to the lens, but his body looks really big. Rodriguez looks like a little kid in comparison to him. There’s not many Pgs in the league with body like that. He has body of a Pf.

Come on...he is closer to the camera, that is why he looks like a giant on that photo...easy to understand.

He is 6'8, 230 lbs...on that photo he is bigger than Yao Ming.

I said he’s nearest to the lens, and I’m not talking only about height, he just looks big. It will be interesting to find out what his measurements really is. Last year he was 6’7 without shoes and he was still growing. He could be near 6’9 with shoes. 2 years ago he weighed 227 lbs in P3. I believe he’s over 230 at the moment.

[TheLogician]

When people are evaluating Doncic’s athleticism, they tend to forget how big he’s. I know he’s the nearest to the lens, but his body looks really big. Rodriguez looks like a little kid in comparison to him. There’s not many Pgs in the league with body like that. He has body of a Pf.

Come on...he is closer to the camera, that is why he looks like a giant on that photo...easy to understand.

He is 6'8, 230 lbs...on that photo he is bigger than Yao Ming.

I said he’s nearest to the lens, and I’m not talking only about height, he just looks big. It will be interesting to find out what his measurements really is. Last year he was 6’7 without shoes and he was still growing. He could be near 6’9 with shoes. 2 years ago he weighed 227 lbs in P3. I believe he’s over 230 at the moment.

He's a little shorter than Luigi Datome on the left (6'8''). He looks bulky and needs to turn that fat into muscle.

[76ciology]

Doncic.

Overpay for perimeter talent. Go cheap on bigs. Thats formula for success. Do it the other way around (like Pels) and you just make it tough for yourself.

Ayton is a very sexy pick because we associate bigs for franchise players. But bigs aren't valued that much nowadays unlike in the 90s while Ayton has serious red flags on D.

A center who cant play D is like a PG who can't shoot

[thamadkant]

Would you rather have a traditional lineup?

-PG
-Booker (a pure SG)
-Jackson (a pure SF)
-Best of Chriss/Bender (both are TRUE PF's)
-Ayton (A true center)

Add the right PG and it's a traditional lineup BUT all can hit the 3 and cover the "freaks" that dominate those positions now.

OR

Would you rather have position-less backetball

-Doncic
-Booker
-Jackson
-Chriss
-Bender

What exactly is that? I don't know. 2 shooting guards, a small forward, and two power forwards? I don't think that lineup is BIG enough to handle traditional bigs nor do I think it is quick enough to handle traditional guards. I think we'd get creamed.

Bender and Chriss arent "smart" or creative enough to put pressure on their opponents like how Warriors push Green, Iggy and Durant as the front court, those guys are smart enough to have led their teams previously... leaders who understand their roles now...



I have a similar idea in the previous thread... I've proposed having Doncic, Booker, Jackson, Paul George then have Bender or Chriss... that may be effective against teams that doesnt have two way players like the Warriors.




Suns have to make their own system... but the key is they need a lot of mobile players who can create shots.... preferrably long armed and athletic.

[TheLogician]

Doncic.

Overpay for perimeter talent. Go cheap on bigs. Thats formula for success. Do it the other way around (like Pels) and you just make it tough for yourself.

Ayton is a very sexy pick because we associate bigs for franchise players. But bigs aren't valued that much nowadays unlike in the 90s while Ayton has serious red flags on D.

A center who cant play D is like a PG who can't shoot

No one is going to out-Warrior the Warriors. There's more than one formula for success but there's a dynasty in progress.