The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Bob8]

If they meet in the championship game on Sunday you will see I'm right. Or you could do the research ahead of time.

what research? Here you have Reyes and Doncic, Reyes 6'9 without shoes.

Dude, you pick the worst photos. Go watch video and stop trolling.

Botton line. He is shorter than 6'8 because you said so.

[juanc]

Looking at busts this decade and which of the 3 key categories they failed in:

Athleticism - Zeller, Russell, Okafor, Hezonja, Turner, Johnson
Mentality - Bennett, McLemore, Bender, Fultz, Vesely, Udoh
Skills - Exum, Mudiay, Kidd-Gilchrist, Robinson, Williams

Athleticism - Doncic
Mentality - Ayton

I think Ayton is more outgoing and focused on basketball than the other busts in the mentality category so I have more faith in him not ending up in that list based on this criteria.

Hezonja in the athleticism? Wasn't that one of his strenghts?
He is much more of a mental midget. And every one of those who are in the athleticism/skills also have some mental problems IMO.

[TheLogician]

KAT is a damn good player and everyone loved him before the playoffs (the first of his career, mind you). Ayton is more athletic, taller, and has a larger wingspan. And his shot is absolutely better than KAT's in college and pros.

I am aware of his measurments. Too bad basketball IQ can't be measured so we would have at least one number that is higher with Doncic than with Ayton.

After watching the tape from Arizona I hate it how I am looking at the offense and trying to discover Ayton and than in the next 2 seconds he comes. Yes he is built like Atlas but he isn't the runner some of you would like him to be

Yeah, centers are usually the last down the floor unless it's a fast break. Miller actually runs a motion offense like Kokoskov. Ayton was very successful as the focal point despite poor passing from the perimeter.

[juanc]

KAT is a damn good player and everyone loved him before the playoffs (the first of his career, mind you). Ayton is more athletic, taller, and has a larger wingspan. And his shot is absolutely better than KAT's in college and pros.

I am aware of his measurments. Too bad basketball IQ can't be measured so we would have at least one number that is higher with Doncic than with Ayton.

After watching the tape from Arizona I hate it how I am looking at the offense and trying to discover Ayton and than in the next 2 seconds he comes. Yes he is built like Atlas but he isn't the runner some of you would like him to be

Yeah, centers are usually the last down the floor unless it's a fast break. Miller actually runs a motion offense like Kokoskov. Ayton was very successful as the focal point despite poor passing from the perimeter.

There is a huge difference in Bagley's running and in Ayton's. If Ayton would be half the runner and had half the motor of Bagley I wouldn't doubt he would be the number 1

But now I am 100% sure that your pick will be Luka

[Worst_to_First]

Guys please watch Shaq's college highlights efoure you start to compare Ayton to him. I highly doubt that Ayton will be on Anthony Davis and Embiid level(who are the 2 best bigs in the league IMO). He may be on the same level as Towns, but I hope you all have watched how he got exposed vs Houston by Capella. Towns has amazing offensive skills but he is a big liability in the playoff. I give Westbrook more chances to win a championship.

Who would you guys rather draft? The next Towns or the next Nash?

Was a huge fan of KAT but Ayton I believe at the very least will be an athletic version of Towns. That is still an absolute stud.

What do you think of Doncic if I may ask?

Doncic and Ayton are both so good that they are both "steals" at #2.

I just think that if Knight reverts back to what he was in Milwaukee, a lineup of Ayton-Warren-JJ-Booker-Knight would be a nightmare to deal with. If not find a PG that would fit nicely with those four and who can defend his position well.

I must admit though that Doncic-JJ-Booker would make an interesting three-headed playmaking trio.

[TheLogician]

what research? Here you have Reyes and Doncic, Reyes 6'9 without shoes.

Dude, you pick the worst photos. Go watch video and stop trolling.

Botton line. He is shorter than 6'8 because you said so.

Google "optical illusions" and that should occupy you for a while.

[Gorilla Warfare]

Hasn’t Ayton only been playing basketball since he was 15 years old? If he’s this good with only 4 years of playing basketball competitively he has A LOT of room to get even better. I really can’t see us passing on possibly getting the next David Robinson.

[Bob8]

Looking at busts this decade and which of the 3 key categories they lacked:

Athleticism - Zeller, Russell, Okafor, Hezonja, Turner, Johnson
Mentality - Bennett, McLemore, Bender, Fultz, Vesely, Udoh
Skills - Exum, Mudiay, Kidd-Gilchrist, Robinson, Williams

Who is more likely to end up on that list?

Athleticism - Doncic
Mentality - Ayton

I think Ayton is more outgoing and focused on basketball than the other busts in the mental category so I have more faith in him in this model.

this is easy one. Ayton didn't prove anything yet. In only important game in his life he disappeared. Doncic is proving for 2 years now, around 200 games, that he can play against professionals, win against professionals and dominate against professionals. He played and won against Nba club, Nba players, ex. Nba players. He will be very good starter, who will make his teammates better and help his club winning more games, at least. If he becomes near 40% 3 points shooter, he will be multiple All Star.

[Bob8]

Dude, you pick the worst photos. Go watch video and stop trolling.

Botton line. He is shorter than 6'8 because you said so.

Google "optical illusions" and that should occupy you for a while.

can be, but you still didn't do anything to prove, he's shorter than 6'8 in shoes.

[TheLogician]

Botton line. He is shorter than 6'8 because you said so.

Google "optical illusions" and that should occupy you for a while.

can be, but you still didn't do anything to prove, he's shorter than 6'8 in shoes.

He is about 6'8'' in shoes. You said he is 6'9'' in shoes. Datome is 6'8'' without shoes.

[King4Day]

Not sure if this was discussed yet. On NBA radio they discussed Doncic saying he may not come out.

The discussion from the hosts was centered around if this could be him trying to get himself to the team he wants.
In otherwords, Phoenix telling Doncic or his agent, "we want you but want to move down a couple spots and get more assets to make it happen."

I could see the Suns picking Ayton first. Then, if Doncic isn't taken by the Kings, we work to already have deals in place to trade with either Atlanta (more likely since they're in the East) or Memphis perhaps.
I would be curious how much a team would give up to move a few spots to nab him so we got Luca.

This could also be why that "report" about him being a pouter or whiny kid surfaced out of nowhere.

You might want to check out my 1st post in the Conspiracy Thread.

Didn't see that thread. My brain is going to hurt a lot in the next month

[Bob8]

Google "optical illusions" and that should occupy you for a while.

can be, but you still didn't do anything to prove, he's shorter than 6'8 in shoes.

He is about 6'8'' in shoes. You said he is 6'9'' in shoes. Datome is 6'8'' without shoes.

I said near 6'9". My main point was that he moves pretty well for that big man.

[Mulhollanddrive]

If Doncic wants to play for us he could do with a huge game in the Euroleague Semi in a few hours.

[Bob8]

If Doncic wants to play for us he could do with a huge game in the Euroleague Semi in a few hours.

one game won't change anything. and this will be classic Euroleague derby, where only win matters. he won't force anything.

I'm 99% sure that Ayton will be drafted first.

[76ciology]

Doncic.

Overpay for perimeter talent. Go cheap on bigs. Thats formula for success. Do it the other way around (like Pels) and you just make it tough for yourself.

Ayton is a very sexy pick because we associate bigs for franchise players. But bigs aren't valued that much nowadays unlike in the 90s while Ayton has serious red flags on D.

A center who cant play D is like a PG who can't shoot

I think Pelicans just lack shooting around them.


Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq and Robinson had 2-3 shooters, considered sharp shooters of their era around them at all times.


Pelicans have Mirotic finally and he's the only real sharp shooter around Davis.... Holiday is accurate shooter as well but he is not considered a sharp shooter where he can get 5-6 3s when hot and take over from that range.


Put Klay Thompson and Mirotic around Davis and Cousins and watch them dominate...

Different era.

If you watch the playoffs. Teams like to target poor defensive Cs. And offensively, they'll take their chances on Ayton against their dime a dozen defensive C like Len, Noel or Dedmon. smart teams won’t double and live with Ayton at the post, so 3pt shooters wont be a factor.

You cant play 90s basketball nowadays. But you can play a heavy iso game that leads to drive and draw to shooters.

[thamadkant]

Ayton
For someone who's only been playing basketball 5 years and has a background in soccer... He moved so well with the ball... He looks in control and his moves are as of someone who's been studying and practicing post moves for a decade or so.

He's not just explosive and fluid in motion...he is deliberate and poised. Again Admiral and even a bit of Hakeem (turn around jump shot) and Patrick Ewing (too of the key shot release)

And his hands are so so soft.



But as most here know I really like JJJ as well... He would be ideal next to Ayton as you then have 2 very mobile big men Who can make even Kevin Durant adjust his shot... Yes... Even him.


Doncic is a beast and I would not be surprise if Spurs ring Kings or Hawks and trade an unhappy Kawhi for Doncic... He just looks like someone who would help Spurs NOW and in the future.

[juanc]

In his QF series (4 games) he averaged 10 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists on 10/29 FG.

43% for 3 and 89% FT. While having the whole Pao defense concentrated on him. And don't forget he was the only capable to take the ball on off the first 2 games.

He will have more space today thanks to the return of Llull. He will probably be guarded by Kurbanov and Clyburn who are both great defenders. He averaged 17,5 pts 5,5 reb 4 ast 2,5 steals and 2 TO in the 2 games they've played against CSKA this year

[Ericb5]

Outsiders perspective from a Sixers fan.

When we won the lottery in 2016 it was a foregone conclusion that Simmons was going to be the pick, but that didn’t stop a lot of debate on the board between Simmons and Ingram.

My contention was that Simmons was he only choice, and I think that Ayton is the only choice for you guys. Don’t get intoxicated by things like personalities, and specific skill sets of other players. When you get the opportunity to draft a franchise center you do it.

I haven’t paid as close attention to the top picks this year as I did in 2016 simply because I knew that we wouldn’t be able to select any of them, so I haven’t watch as much of Ayton as I ha did Simmons in 2016, but what I HAVE seen is enough to say that he is a potential franchise player.

You guys have a nice rebuild going with what you already have, and then you slot Ayton in at the center of it all. Later you need to find a point guard, but you can find veteran point guards that facilitate the rest of the team.

Donic looks awesome too, but he is a much bigger risk. Leave him for the Kings to deal with. Take the sure thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[76ciology]

Ayton is an athletic beast but lack of Defense is a massive problem for a big. That's why you have a big for, without any D he will hinder the team more than help. Yeah he looks good on paper but this guy had all the makings of a good offensive player with no D who cannot measure up to the other bigs.

Doncic is the safer pick, you have to hope Ayton turns into something he currently isn't anywhere near being.

....and we have to hope that Doncic's game translates to the NBA.

Look, Doncic isnt some defensive god either. He is too slow/unathletic to guard guards in the NBA. So that means he will be guarding SF's, and looking around the league, he is going to have his hands full trying. Pro Doncic people like to throw around Aytons defensive limitations, but dont care to speak on Doncic's and act like it isnt just as big of a question mark, which it is.

Yeah, but defense is not that required for a guard. It’s what offense is for centers. The center’s teammates compensates for his lack of offense. The guard’s teammates compensates for his lack of defense.

Easier to hide a guard’s poor D than to hide a center’s poor D. And it’s way much easier to improve a guard’s D. And Doncic can switch unto bigger players where he might be a better post defender than most Pgs.

Guys like Curry and Harden turned into capable to good defenders. Center who cant play D is unplayable in playoffs.

I could be wrong on Ayton. But it’s really a good bet to short on the Ayton’s stock. He has horrible awareness on D. At 1%stl% that’s like being a second or two late on every rotation.

[thamadkant]

Doncic.

Overpay for perimeter talent. Go cheap on bigs. Thats formula for success. Do it the other way around (like Pels) and you just make it tough for yourself.

Ayton is a very sexy pick because we associate bigs for franchise players. But bigs aren't valued that much nowadays unlike in the 90s while Ayton has serious red flags on D.

A center who cant play D is like a PG who can't shoot

I think Pelicans just lack shooting around them.


Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq and Robinson had 2-3 shooters, considered sharp shooters of their era around them at all times.


Pelicans have Mirotic finally and he's the only real sharp shooter around Davis.... Holiday is accurate shooter as well but he is not considered a sharp shooter where he can get 5-6 3s when hot and take over from that range.


Put Klay Thompson and Mirotic around Davis and Cousins and watch them dominate...

Different era.

If you watch the playoffs. Teams like to target poor defensive Cs. And offensively, they'll take their chances on Ayton against their dime a dozen defensive C like Len, Noel or Dedmon. smart teams won’t double and live with Ayton at the post, so 3pt shooters wont be a factor.

You cant play 90s basketball nowadays. But you can play a heavy iso game that leads to drive and draw to shooters.

Sorry but Ayton is criticised for being a lacklustre weak side shot blocker.

As a front on shot blocker he alters a lot of shot.

Please watch at least 5 or so of his games in full and not just highlights... He will challenge shooters in front of him and he's adequate at it.

The knock on him is he doesn't leave his man to go block an easy shot.

If he did he would have averaged 2.5 to 3 a game.


Again... I already judged him as being average shot blocker But after watching 8 FULL games in the last 2 days... I'm convinced that If he plays center and is coached or encouraged to take risks and challenge shots from the weak side.. He would be a 2 bpg type big man.

And he guards perimeter players very well which is important today.


My mind was changed after watching him more and looking at his movement and lack of the last 2 days... Just honed in It.

In the NBA they watch tapes and development coaches would sit him down and tell him that he missed a play here and there and they will also tell him how to improve.



Different era?


Very good players will be very good in any era.

And don't use Jahlil Okafor who seems to have his confidence killed by 76ers. Or even Monroe, Jefferson etc. They are all much slower and less athletic than Ayton.


What I see in Ayton is someone who would need defensive attention at all times because he is a terror on the boards and once he's down low he just dunks it or he takes the contact and still finish.

That helps the perimeter.

Suns just need another sharp shooter at the wings to give the paint some spacing and Ayton Would feast.