Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[DirtyDez]

If they want the #1 that’s fine but adding Jackson plus more picks would prevent the Suns from taking the next step. Even with Booker & Towns for the next 5 years are basically the T-Wolves. Jackson has to be part of that nucleus.

[collidingNeurons]

i am not for a second entertaining that as true, that trade rumor

[JMac1]

I mean, really, why are we having this discussion? The entire league was tanking; most “Wait’n for Ayton.” Now, by the blessing of the basketball gods who hath forsaken us for 50 years, we finally recieve the Gift, and all of a suddden we should just trade it for an established one side player who mind you just failed miserably on the big stage.

It’s like teams and fans of those teams are looking for a fool to bamboozle because they didn’t win the lottery, and they are staring us right in the eyes; the 3 Card Monty and some here are ready to play. Ayton this, Ayton that...Doncic is a stud but potential wise Ayton is generational. A perfect player to play big and small in today’s era and some here don’t even want to give him a test drive for KAT. I think it’s crazy, but maybe I’m wrong.

We got a month before the draft so there isn't anything else to talk about I guess. But yes, I am not trading Ayton for KAT without a doubt. KAT didn't look nearly as dominate in college as Ayton did, and Ayton has some serious athleticism going on. Not only that, he plays with a lot of heart, or at least he dunks savagely like Amare did. I have mentioned this numerous times however I cannot express enough how excited I am to see a Booker/Ayton pick and roll, I'm just fascinated with the thought of exploiting any defense. Like okay 10 seconds left on the clock, original play didn't work, let's go to old reliable of Booker/Ayton PnR! This will work 100% of the time, 80% of the time.
It's not even a debate for me anymore, we aren't taking Doncic.

100x 1,000,000

[JMac1]

At least we are relevant enough to be included in nonsense again..... :/

[Frank Lee]

Like it or not, if KAT is available for the # 1, McD will take notice. Anymore added to the deal diminishes the return....It may depend on how toxic the Minny/KAT relationship really is. Imagine if he states he wants out???? Playing with his buddy Book has to be enticing to Karl.

Bird in the hand

[bwoolf2]

Like it or not, if KAT is available for the # 1, McD will take notice. Anymore added to the deal diminishes the return....It may depend on how toxic the Minny/KAT relationship really is. Imagine if he states he wants out???? Playing with his buddy Book has to be enticing to Karl.

Bird in the hand

I absolutely get the appeal but this may be the only #1 pick this team has in franchise history we have had great players through out our teams history I want that opportunity to pick 1st and hopefully he turns into a hall of fame type of player but either way he is our pick and not someone elses.

Not only that but I believe in Karma a little bit and we lost the coin flip 50 years ago that was Lew AlCinder is there maybe a possibility the universe is saying we screwed you then but here is Ayton your Lew AlCinder for the new generation. Probably not but I can talk myself into believing that.

[Mulhollanddrive]

If Ayton gets 25-12 on 121 O-Rating in his 2nd year we'd be saying dont trade it for even the no.1 pick.

[Waylay13]

Towns 25-12 on 121 O-Rating last season.

That is Ayton's top 10% percentile outcome.

The issue is that people are looking at this from a straight numbers view. This isnt just a KAT for #1 pick, this isnt even a just KAT for the first ever #1 draft pick for the Suns, or even KAT for the first ever #1 Suns draft pick that is likely to be a local guy. The Wolves want more. KAT for #1 plus Josh Jackson is grossly overpaying because it moves the suns to point of only having 2 star type players which isnt going to get them in the playoffs. To top this off it moves the KAT being on a max contract to starting at the same time Booker is and this really messes things up as far as finding free agents to fill out the roster. A roster of Ayton, Booker and Jackson will attract players going forward because the team has a lot of talent that can make a push.

[Villalobos]

Only team that could outbid a straight #1 pick/Towns swap is Boston who have loads of good picks and young players. Not sure if Boston would value Towns over a cheaper (trade cost and rookie salary) Bamba for their needs anyway.

Doubt anything happens though. If Towns hates Thibs they'll just fire Thibs.

[DirtyDez]

Towns 25-12 on 121 O-Rating last season.

That is Ayton's top 10% percentile outcome.

The issue is that people are looking at this from a straight numbers view. This isnt just a KAT for #1 pick, this isnt even a just KAT for the first ever #1 draft pick for the Suns, or even KAT for the first ever #1 Suns draft pick that is likely to be a local guy. The Wolves want more. KAT for #1 plus Josh Jackson is grossly overpaying because it moves the suns to point of only having 2 star type players which isnt going to get them in the playoffs. To top this off it moves the KAT being on a max contract to starting at the same time Booker is and this really messes things up as far as finding free agents to fill out the roster. A roster of Ayton, Booker and Jackson will attract players going forward because the team has a lot of talent that can make a push.

The bigger issue than signing dueling 150m contracts next year is dueling supermax’s 5 years from now. Plus other players will need to get paid. Of course I’m projecting way too far down the road but both guys will be 27-28 by the time that happens and will easily command it.

[charley barkles]

Like it or not, if KAT is available for the # 1, McD will take notice. Anymore added to the deal diminishes the return....It may depend on how toxic the Minny/KAT relationship really is. Imagine if he states he wants out???? Playing with his buddy Book has to be enticing to Karl.

Bird in the hand

I absolutely get the appeal but this may be the only #1 pick this team has in franchise history we have had great players through out our teams history I want that opportunity to pick 1st and hopefully he turns into a hall of fame type of player but either way he is our pick and not someone elses.

Not only that but I believe in Karma a little bit and we lost the coin flip 50 years ago that was Lew AlCinder is there maybe a possibility the universe is saying we screwed you then but here is Ayton your Lew AlCinder for the new generation. Probably not but I can talk myself into believing that.

I've been saying this exact same thing too, and it's why I would choose Ayton over Doncic. Gotta reverse that curse!

[BobbieL]

Towns 25-12 on 121 O-Rating last season.

That is Ayton's top 10% percentile outcome.

The issue is that people are looking at this from a straight numbers view. This isnt just a KAT for #1 pick, this isnt even a just KAT for the first ever #1 draft pick for the Suns, or even KAT for the first ever #1 Suns draft pick that is likely to be a local guy. The Wolves want more. KAT for #1 plus Josh Jackson is grossly overpaying because it moves the suns to point of only having 2 star type players which isnt going to get them in the playoffs. To top this off it moves the KAT being on a max contract to starting at the same time Booker is and this really messes things up as far as finding free agents to fill out the roster. A roster of Ayton, Booker and Jackson will attract players going forward because the team has a lot of talent that can make a push.

The bigger issue than signing dueling 150m contracts next year is dueling supermax’s 5 years from now. Plus other players will need to get paid. Of course I’m projecting way too far down the road but both guys will be 27-28 by the time that happens and will easily command it.

trade makes no sense for either team. TWolves are in a good spot and getting Ayton probably pushes them back

The Suns give up way way way too much if you ask me. WAs Towns really ranked that much higher than Ayton as far as prospects go. Just nonsense...

[DirtyDez]

The issue is that people are looking at this from a straight numbers view. This isnt just a KAT for #1 pick, this isnt even a just KAT for the first ever #1 draft pick for the Suns, or even KAT for the first ever #1 Suns draft pick that is likely to be a local guy. The Wolves want more. KAT for #1 plus Josh Jackson is grossly overpaying because it moves the suns to point of only having 2 star type players which isnt going to get them in the playoffs. To top this off it moves the KAT being on a max contract to starting at the same time Booker is and this really messes things up as far as finding free agents to fill out the roster. A roster of Ayton, Booker and Jackson will attract players going forward because the team has a lot of talent that can make a push.

The bigger issue than signing dueling 150m contracts next year is dueling supermax’s 5 years from now. Plus other players will need to get paid. Of course I’m projecting way too far down the road but both guys will be 27-28 by the time that happens and will easily command it.

trade makes no sense for either team. TWolves are in a good spot and getting Ayton probably pushes them back

The Suns give up way way way too much if you ask me. WAs Towns really ranked that much higher than Ayton as far as prospects go. Just nonsense...

Had they not signed Wiggins to that stupid contract I feel like KAT would have a max offer on the table (maybe he does anyway). They were pretty close as prospects but Ayton is more impressive physically while Towns had better instincts. I think Ayton’s ceiling is higher but KAT is damn good and you couldn’t pass up that deal if it only took #1 IMO.

[BobbieL]

The bigger issue than signing dueling 150m contracts next year is dueling supermax’s 5 years from now. Plus other players will need to get paid. Of course I’m projecting way too far down the road but both guys will be 27-28 by the time that happens and will easily command it.

trade makes no sense for either team. TWolves are in a good spot and getting Ayton probably pushes them back

The Suns give up way way way too much if you ask me. WAs Towns really ranked that much higher than Ayton as far as prospects go. Just nonsense...

Had they not signed Wiggins to that stupid contract I feel like KAT would have a max offer on the table (maybe he does anyway). They were pretty close as prospects but Ayton is more impressive physically while Towns had better instincts. I think Ayton’s ceiling is higher but KAT is damn good and you couldn’t pass up that deal if it only took #1 IMO.

Maybe I haven't seen enough of KAT but what team is better:
Booker, Towns and three guys

or

Booker, Jackson, Ayton, Bender and a future number 1 pick

I think the second team is better personally. And I get that one player on a team is dynamic in the NBA but that player does need other players to help too I think the Suns have the assets to really make smart trades. It might cost a couple draft choices to move Dudley or Chandler for the right long term fit (do you think the Warriors regret trading two future firsts for Iguodala) but I think they have the resources to improve the team this year and in future years.

IF the trade were strictly Ayton and the Bucks pick or Ayton and Bender - fine - but not doing much more than that and definetly not Jackson I would want Jackson WITH KAT.

[DirtyDez]

My caveat was it only costing the #1 and something else minor. Including JJ is obviously asinine.

[saintEscaton]

The bigger issue than signing dueling 150m contracts next year is dueling supermax’s 5 years from now. Plus other players will need to get paid. Of course I’m projecting way too far down the road but both guys will be 27-28 by the time that happens and will easily command it.

trade makes no sense for either team. TWolves are in a good spot and getting Ayton probably pushes them back

The Suns give up way way way too much if you ask me. WAs Towns really ranked that much higher than Ayton as far as prospects go. Just nonsense...

Had they not signed Wiggins to that stupid contract I feel like KAT would have a max offer on the table (maybe he does anyway). They were pretty close as prospects but Ayton is more impressive physically while Towns had better instincts. I think Ayton’s ceiling is higher but KAT is damn good and you couldn’t pass up that deal if it only took #1 IMO.

Do you take a known commodity/ Top 10 player who just needs to become a below average/mediocre defender to be an MVP candidate or 3 additional cost controlled years of a rookie prospect who has better tools but even worse intangibles/showing on the other end in college. Assuming such a deal is even on the table (I don't believe it is, Minny would only accept a godfather offer) I do the first in a heartbeat.

[jredsaz]

At least we are relevant enough to be included in nonsense again..... :/

[jcsunsfan]

trade makes no sense for either team. TWolves are in a good spot and getting Ayton probably pushes them back

The Suns give up way way way too much if you ask me. WAs Towns really ranked that much higher than Ayton as far as prospects go. Just nonsense...

Had they not signed Wiggins to that stupid contract I feel like KAT would have a max offer on the table (maybe he does anyway). They were pretty close as prospects but Ayton is more impressive physically while Towns had better instincts. I think Ayton’s ceiling is higher but KAT is damn good and you couldn’t pass up that deal if it only took #1 IMO.

Do you take a Top 10 player who just needs to become a below average/mediocre defender to be an MVP candidate or 3 additional cost controlled years of a rookie prospect who has better tools but even worse intangibles/showing on the other end. Assuming such a deal is even on the table (I don't believe it is, Minny would only accept a godfather offer) I do the first in a heartbeat.

I cannot accept your presupposition.

[saintEscaton]

Had they not signed Wiggins to that stupid contract I feel like KAT would have a max offer on the table (maybe he does anyway). They were pretty close as prospects but Ayton is more impressive physically while Towns had better instincts. I think Ayton’s ceiling is higher but KAT is damn good and you couldn’t pass up that deal if it only took #1 IMO.

Do you take a Top 10 player who just needs to become a below average/mediocre defender to be an MVP candidate or 3 additional cost controlled years of a rookie prospect who has better tools but even worse intangibles/showing on the other end. Assuming such a deal is even on the table (I don't believe it is, Minny would only accept a godfather offer) I do the first in a heartbeat.

I cannot accept your presupposition.

Which one? KAT is a proven commodity and most would go with the sure thing over the off chance that Ayton ever matches how good KAT was offensively this season while playing enough D to not be a net negative on the court

[Damkac]

IF Wolves would trade KAT it is for another star, not pick. So you would have to find 3rd team willing to trade their star to Minny for 1st pick. And this team would have to prefer 1st over taking Towns themselves.

In other words this won't happen.