The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Kerrsed]

Was there a high level star big in the NBA who has a questionable D entering the league? Isnt like 90% of the high level star bigs in NBA history all had defense as one of their strengths?

But then if Ayton turns into an outlier, he might be a top 10-15 player in the league. With defense, he might look like the good version of DMC.

Yeah there was, his name was Karl-Anthony Towns.

Spoiler:

I wonder what happened to that guy.

BS. In college KAT was 10 times better on defense than Ayton. Actually defense was one of his main strengths entering the league.

Really? Weird that NBAdraft.net has his defense rated the same as Aytons (Who is supposedly not a good defender).

The best draft site at the time was DraftExpress and their top knock on him was defense.

Watch on YouTube

While he was known as a decent shot blocker, he was bleh in the steals department, and would get over aggressive trying to block whatever ho could to a point that he would rack up the fouls and forced to be sat. Is it a good defender because he tried and tried hard even though he kept fouling all the time?

[Fo-Real]

Tired of seeing post about how Doncic smartest **** person on Earth, and Ayton is some mindless athletic grunt.... YOU KNOW ****!!!! BORDERLINE RACIST, don't care how that sits with you!!!!

Lets not bring race into it. No one has mentioned Race (And it could definitely be considered a 2-way street in this discussion). I also have not seen one instance where Doncic being called smart sounded like the poster was trying to infer that Ayton or any other black athlete wasnt (And specially wasnt due to race).

I usually agree with most you say but I DISAGREE HERE. Red font does not change that, I think that reference about his intellect has come up a lot. It hurts me to say it to you specifically cause I like you, but I disagree with you and stand by what the **** I said.

[Fo-Real]

Is what it is.

[thamadkant]

Ayton has only been playing basketball for 5 years and he already knows his way around the paint and has developed his jump shot.

The guy is a basketball savant by the way he has developed that much in that little of time... I can kinda understand why he has great foot work as he also played soccer growing up... Hakeem Olajuwon also played soccer growing up.

Now if someone just train Ayton in weak side blocking as if he was being trained as a goal keeper he may exponentially improve in that category.... Hakeem was a goal keeper too!

[Sunsfan12]

I don’t really want to enter the race discussion but if it’s something people in this forum want to worry about maybe we can discuss TJ Warren’s latest tweet.

[Kerrsed]

I don’t really want to enter the race discussion but if it’s something people in this forum want to worry about maybe we can discuss TJ Warren’s latest tweet.

Yes i saw the tweet earlier, and no we are not discussing it.

[76ciology]

To give you an idea of what kind of defense a C should play nowadays is similar to what you see from Draymond Green.

He'll have to cover 3-4 opponents in a possession (switching/rotating) and also be the first guy to run down the court on transition, both while still be able to protect the rim. I dont know if Ayton can do that. Maybe he can but for me he likely won't.

You also have to consider that only have a limited amount of talent you can distrubute on all positions. If you over provide at C, that means under providing at the more important positions.. the forward and guard positions. (why not funnel all the talent at guard and wing positions and go cheap for C?!)

Also consider this. Every hopeless team have the same line.. "To zig when everyone zag." Whether to build a no superstar team like the Pistons squad or to play big when everyone play small. The later you can do if your big can play D like Draymond Green (see Gobert&Whiteside in the playoffs)

Just my two cents as an outsider without any bias and less prone to being hyped

[Moochthemonkey]

I don’t really want to enter the race discussion but if it’s something people in this forum want to worry about maybe we can discuss TJ Warren’s latest tweet.

then why would you bring it up?

p.s. his tweet is just song lyrics lol

[Sunsfan12]

I don’t really want to enter the race discussion but if it’s something people in this forum want to worry about maybe we can discuss TJ Warren’s latest tweet.

then why would you bring it up?

p.s. his tweet is just song lyrics lol

I didn’t bring race up. If others are discussing it then the situation calls for it. Doesn’t mean I want it to be discussed.

P.S. if he is tweeting the song lyrics without a rebuttal to its intended meaning it seems very likely that he agrees with its implication wouldn’t you say?

[gaspar]

Yeah there was, his name was Karl-Anthony Towns.

Spoiler:

I wonder what happened to that guy.

BS. In college KAT was 10 times better on defense than Ayton. Actually defense was one of his main strengths entering the league.

Really? Weird that NBAdraft.net has his defense rated the same as Aytons (Who is supposedly not a good defender).

The best draft site at the time was DraftExpress and their top knock on him was defense.

Watch on YouTube

While he was known as a decent shot blocker, he was bleh in the steals department, and would get over aggressive trying to block whatever ho could to a point that he would rack up the fouls and forced to be sat. Is it a good defender because he tried and tried hard even though he kept fouling all the time?

Yeah, really.

DraftExpress scouting report:

Defensively is where Towns separates himself as a prospect, and where his one year at Kentucky really helped him improve the most. He has the size and strength to defend centers effectively, but also the length and mobility to contain most 4s, giving him terrific positional versatility that is highly coveted in today's NBA.

Towns has terrific timing as a shot-blocker, with his 4.4 blocks per-40 minutes ranking fifth best among DX Top-100 prospects. He covers ground nicely, being agile enough to hedge screens out to the perimeter and still make it back into the paint in time to make a play at the rim. It's not rare to see him take charges, close out effectively on shooters on the perimeter, or even switch out onto guards in pick and roll situations. He's also an excellent rebounder thanks to his terrific size, length and instincts, grabbing 13 boards per-40 minutes pace adjusted, the third best rate among DX Top-100 prospects.

[sunsbg]

To give you an idea of what kind of defense a C should play nowadays is similar to what you see from Draymond Green.

He'll have to cover 3-4 opponents in a possession (switching/rotating) and also be the first guy to run down the court on transition, both while still be able to protect the rim. I dont know if Ayton can do that. Maybe he can but for me he likely won't.

You also have to consider that only have a limited amount of talent you can distrubute on all positions. If you over provide at C, that means under providing at the more important positions.. the forward and guard positions. (why not funnel all the talent at guard and wing positions and go cheap for C?!)

Also consider this. Every hopeless team have the same line.. "To zig when everyone zag." Whether to build a no superstar team like the Pistons squad or to play big when everyone play small. The later you can do if your big can play D like Draymond Green (see Gobert&Whiteside in the playoffs)

Just my two cents as an outsider without any bias and less prone to being hyped

This positionless BS is going waaayyyy overboard. It's always Green as an example. A player that probably will not make the ASG if not playing for the loaded Warriors team, with style that suits him. Never in the history of this sport it was the responsibility of a C to be the first guy running down the court!

[bigfoot]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fnba%2F2018%2F3%2F30%2F17181644%2Fluka-doncic-draft-prospect-game-winning-3&tfw_site=SBNation

[MathiasPW]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-nba-abandoned-roy-hibbert/

[bigfoot]

Watch on YouTube

[papajoe]

Tired of seeing post about how Doncic smartest **** person on Earth, and Ayton is some mindless athletic grunt.... YOU KNOW ****!!!! BORDERLINE RACIST, don't care how that sits with you!!!!

Lets not bring race into it. No one has mentioned Race (And it could definitely be considered a 2-way street in this discussion). I also have not seen one instance where Doncic being called smart sounded like the poster was trying to infer that Ayton or any other black athlete wasnt (And specially wasnt due to race).

I usually agree with most you say but I DISAGREE HERE. Red font does not change that, I think that reference about his intellect has come up a lot. It hurts me to say it to you specifically cause I like you, but I disagree with you and stand by what the **** I said.

Agreed saw someone yesterday say Doncic is smarter than Simmons based on absolutely nothing.

[bigfoot]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-nba-abandoned-roy-hibbert/

This again is a real worry for Ayton over the course of his career. As he ages he will naturally become heavier and slower. Already being questioned on defense if he can't cover the perimeter as a big man he's out of the league. I think Doncic is likely to have a larger window of stardom.

[MathiasPW]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-nba-abandoned-roy-hibbert/

This again is a real worry for Ayton over the course of his career. As he ages he will naturally become heavier and slower. Already being questioned on defense if he can't cover the perimeter as a big man he's out of the league. I think Doncic is likely to have a larger window of stardom.

Ayton is mobile. Yet, his bad defense has mostly been atribbuted to playing out of position and having to defend at the perimeter. Well, guess what, defending at the perimeter will be 50% of his job defensively.

[Blonde]

If I’m picking between 6’8” Ginobili or David Robinson v2, honestly I’m going with the big Ginobili. I know many here will disagree with that and that’s fine. I also worry about how Ayton’s career will age, and how injuries would impact his career. Both those factors also favor Luka to me. I like the team fit of Luka more too: If I had to rank the three things this team needs most it would be shooting, defense, and passing. Luka wins all three of those categories to me.

As an aside, I’m not sure that Doncic being described as smart is implicating anything other than that he is the best passer and has the best court vision in this class. Though there definitely are instances where the descriptors “smart” and “dumb” are supported by nothing other than prejudice. In the same vein, white players are always assumed to be unathletic and everyone acts blown away when Grayson Allen tests so well at the combine. I think Luka has underrated athleticism in the way he slides and moves his hips, and he has explosiveness with the ball in his hands at times. He’ll improve athletically just as Ayton will improve defensively.

[76ciology]

If I’m picking between 6’8” Ginobili or David Robinson v2, honestly I’m going with the big Ginobili. I know many here will disagree with that and that’s fine. I also worry about how Ayton’s career will age, and how injuries would impact his career. Both those factors also favor Luka to me. I like the team fit of Luka more too: If I had to rank the three things this team needs most it would be shooting, defense, and passing. Luka wins all three of those categories to me.

As an aside, I’m not sure that Doncic being described as smart is implicating anything other than that he is the best passer and has the best court vision in this class. Though there definitely are instances where the descriptors “smart” and “dumb” are supported by nothing other than prejudice. In the same vein, white players are always assumed to be unathletic and everyone acts blown away when Grayson Allen tests so well at the combine. I think Luka has underrated athleticism in the way he slides and moves his hips, and he has explosiveness with the ball in his hands at times. He’ll improve athletically just as Ayton will improve defensively.

DRob is known for his defense. Specially for his steals and blocks numbers. Ayton's stl% is horrible. I dont see the DRob comp except for the muscular looks

Doncic for me is like Joe Johnson, thus the 6'8" gino comp

[sunsbg]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-nba-abandoned-roy-hibbert/

This again is a real worry for Ayton over the course of his career. As he ages he will naturally become heavier and slower. Already being questioned on defense if he can't cover the perimeter as a big man he's out of the league. I think Doncic is likely to have a larger window of stardom.

Ayton is mobile. Yet, his bad defense has mostly been atribbuted to playing out of position and having to defend at the perimeter. Well, guess what, defending at the perimeter will be 50% of his job defensively.

That's why I said in an earlier post that he will understand soon enough he is not a 4. And what exactly proves this article based again on a single player's history ? Is Boban Marianovich out of the league as mentioned in the article ?

It's just silly when people try to prove a point based on evidence for a single player as is the case with Green above..nevermind that he plays the majority of the time at PF...