The Ayton & Doncic Conspiracy Thread

grumpysaddle · Post #141 » by **grumpysaddle** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 am

If the Suns are taking back that awful Parsons' contract they can have 16/Warren/maybe one of Bender or Chriss. No need to include multiple draft picks (especially unprotected). It's the #4 pick, not the #1 pick. They get a quality contract in Warren, who may fit Grizzlies playstyle well to get out of that gross Parsons' contract.

DirtyDez · Post #142 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:26 am

They aren’t diminishing the value of a top-5 pick to rid a contract. They made their bed with the Parsons deal and they’ll lie in it for two more years.

thamadkant · Post #143 » by **thamadkant** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:29 am

grumpysaddle wrote:If the Suns are taking back that awful Parsons' contract they can have 16/Warren/maybe one of Bender or Chriss. No need to include multiple draft picks (especially unprotected). It's the #4 pick, not the #1 pick. They get a quality contract in Warren, who may fit Grizzlies playstyle well to get out of that gross Parsons' contract.

Then they don't want it.

The point is for them to win the trade now...

But Suns ultimately winning it in 2 years time when Doncic and Ayton are ready and Suns are pushing top 3

thamadkant · Post #144 » by **thamadkant** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:31 am

DirtyDez wrote:They aren’t diminishing the value of a top-5 pick to rid a contract. They made their bed with the Parsons deal and they’ll lie in it for two more years.

Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

Post #145 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:35 am

thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:They aren’t diminishing the value of a top-5 pick to rid a contract. They made their bed with the Parsons deal and they’ll lie in it for two more years.

Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

I'd be hesitant giving up our own unprotected pick.

thamadkant · Post #146 » by **thamadkant** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:39 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:They aren’t diminishing the value of a top-5 pick to rid a contract. They made their bed with the Parsons deal and they’ll lie in it for two more years.

Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

I'd be hesitant giving up our own unprotected pick.

And their be hesitant to give up Pick 4 since they could draft Bamba, Porter or Jackson or even Bagley..

The point is to go ALL in on Doncic And Ayton with Booker and Jackson

DirtyDez · Post #147 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:43 am

thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:They aren’t diminishing the value of a top-5 pick to rid a contract. They made their bed with the Parsons deal and they’ll lie in it for two more years.

Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

They’re still trading a top-5 pick for picks that are unknowns. From the Grizz POV they’re hoping the Suns are really bad next year yet supplying them talent at the same time? Doesn’t add up.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #148 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:47 am

How many times has a top 5 pick been traded out of (within the same year) without an All-Star player included?

DirtyDez · Post #149 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:56 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:How many times has a top 5 pick been traded out of (within the same year) without an All-Star player included?

I think Washington traded a top-5 pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye.

thamadkant · Post #150 » by **thamadkant** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:09 am

DirtyDez wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:They aren’t diminishing the value of a top-5 pick to rid a contract. They made their bed with the Parsons deal and they’ll lie in it for two more years.

Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

They’re still trading a top-5 pick for picks that are unknowns. From the Grizz POV they’re hoping the Suns are really bad next year yet supplying them talent at the same time? Doesn’t add up.

It's like gambling... Obviously Memphis FO would assess that the Suns won't make the playoffs even with Ayton and Doncic.

Hence they're also gutting the team by removing a 20/5 scorer in Warren and future picks galore.

If Memphis thinks Doncic is the next coming of Bird then they draft him at all cost... Heck... They'll even try to trade up to Pick 2.

DirtyDez · Post #151 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:14 am

thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

They’re still trading a top-5 pick for picks that are unknowns. From the Grizz POV they’re hoping the Suns are really bad next year yet supplying them talent at the same time? Doesn’t add up.

It's like gambling... Obviously Memphis FO would assess that the Suns won't make the playoffs even with Ayton and Doncic.

Hence they're also gutting the team by removing a 20/5 scorer in Warren and future picks galore.

If Memphis thinks Doncic is the next coming of Bird then they draft him at all cost... Heck... They'll even try to trade up to Pick 2.

I would tell the Suns to take Parsons and give your 19’ unprotected, rights to swap in 20’ (if the Suns jump into the top-3) 21’ Suns and Heat unprotected picks. Basically a Billy King.

thamadkant · Post #152 » by **thamadkant** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:16 am

DirtyDez wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
They’re still trading a top-5 pick for picks that are unknowns. From the Grizz POV they’re hoping the Suns are really bad next year yet supplying them talent at the same time? Doesn’t add up.

It's like gambling... Obviously Memphis FO would assess that the Suns won't make the playoffs even with Ayton and Doncic.

Hence they're also gutting the team by removing a 20/5 scorer in Warren and future picks galore.

If Memphis thinks Doncic is the next coming of Bird then they draft him at all cost... Heck... They'll even try to trade up to Pick 2.

I would tell the Suns to take Parsons and give your 19’ unprotected, rights to swap in 20’ (if the Suns jump into the top-3) 21’ Suns and Heat unprotected picks. Basically a Billy King.

The difference is... Billy King did that for a 35 year old Pierce and 36 year old KG.

Suns would have their starting 5 (mostly) 23 year olds by 2021 ... So they miss out adding on 19 year olds to play with 21 year olds in 2019 and 2020...

HUGE difference and I'm sure McD knows this.

Sunsfan12 · Post #153 » by **Sunsfan12** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:26 am

DirtyDez wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
They’re still trading a top-5 pick for picks that are unknowns. From the Grizz POV they’re hoping the Suns are really bad next year yet supplying them talent at the same time? Doesn’t add up.

It's like gambling... Obviously Memphis FO would assess that the Suns won't make the playoffs even with Ayton and Doncic.

Hence they're also gutting the team by removing a 20/5 scorer in Warren and future picks galore.

If Memphis thinks Doncic is the next coming of Bird then they draft him at all cost... Heck... They'll even try to trade up to Pick 2.

I would tell the Suns to take Parsons and give your 19’ unprotected, rights to swap in 20’ (if the Suns jump into the top-3) 21’ Suns and Heat unprotected picks. Basically a Billy King.

I want Doncic/Booker/Jackson/Ayton for the next decade so bad I’d probably say yes to that. Sounds like a lot but I doubt we’d be bad enough in 20-21 for those picks to mean all that much. Definitely won’t be Brooklyn bad.

DirtyDez · Post #154 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:28 am

thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
thamadkant wrote:

It's like gambling... Obviously Memphis FO would assess that the Suns won't make the playoffs even with Ayton and Doncic.

Hence they're also gutting the team by removing a 20/5 scorer in Warren and future picks galore.

If Memphis thinks Doncic is the next coming of Bird then they draft him at all cost... Heck... They'll even try to trade up to Pick 2.

I would tell the Suns to take Parsons and give your 19’ unprotected, rights to swap in 20’ (if the Suns jump into the top-3) 21’ Suns and Heat unprotected picks. Basically a Billy King.

The difference is... Billy King did that for a 35 year old Pierce and 36 year old KG.

Suns would have their starting 5 (mostly) 23 year olds by 2021 ... So they miss out adding on 19 year olds to play with 21 year olds in 2019 and 2020...

HUGE difference and I'm sure McD knows this.

Right but I’m speaking from Memphis’ POV. So it could end up worse than Billy King because the Suns will be in the playoffs in two years. Everyone knew the Nets’ shelf life was 1-2 years with those guys... Except Billy King.

dremill24 · Post #155 » by **dremill24** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:35 am

Who trades a top 5 pick just to get off of a contract, especially when there’s not a top 10 pick coming back?

Sunsfan12 · Post #156 » by **Sunsfan12** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:39 am

dremill24 wrote:Who trades a top 5 pick just to get off of a contract, especially when there’s not a top 10 pick coming back?

Do future picks and a 20 ppg scorer not have any value to you?

dremill24 · Post #157 » by **dremill24** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:50 am

Sunsfan12 wrote:
dremill24 wrote:Who trades a top 5 pick just to get off of a contract, especially when there’s not a top 10 pick coming back?

Do future picks and a 20 ppg scorer not have any value to you?

I mean they do but there is something to be said for an immediate return. Most teams/people are going to put an extra value on the stuff that is tangible right now, whether it’s actually more valuable or not IMO.

As a weird social experiment, id bet that if you asked for the #3 pick in year X, and offered the (guaranteed) #3 pick the year after in return, you’d likely get turned down by most. I realize it’s not exactly the same as what we’re talking about, but it illustrates my above point.

Short-term gratification is real, even if it always the most rational thing.

Sunsfan12 · Post #158 » by **Sunsfan12** » Mon May 21, 2018 3:16 am

dremill24 wrote:
Sunsfan12 wrote:
dremill24 wrote:Who trades a top 5 pick just to get off of a contract, especially when there’s not a top 10 pick coming back?

Do future picks and a 20 ppg scorer not have any value to you?

I mean they do but there is something to be said for an immediate return. Most teams/people are going to put an extra value on the stuff that is tangible right now, whether it’s actually more valuable or not IMO.

As a weird social experiment, id bet that if you asked for the #3 pick in year X, and offered the (guaranteed) #3 pick the year after in return, you’d likely get turned down by most. I realize it’s not exactly the same as what we’re talking about, but it illustrates my above point.

Short-term gratification is real, even if it always the most rational thing.

I get what you’re saying. I’d rather have the #1 pick now than in 5 years. However we are talking multiple assets stretched over a few years. A quality starter in Warren, getting out of Parson’s ugly contract, a young promising PF of the Grizzlies liking (Bender or Chriss), #16, and a pick or two in the future. To be honest we could probably get a borderline all-star player for that combination of assets. Is and all-star caliber player worth the #4 pick to you?

YouTube · Post #159 » by **Kerrsed** » Mon May 21, 2018 3:25 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:They aren’t diminishing the value of a top-5 pick to rid a contract. They made their bed with the Parsons deal and they’ll lie in it for two more years.

Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

I'd be hesitant giving up our own unprotected pick.

I'd rather have another high pick in THIS draft, than a questionable pick in next years not-so-talent-filled draft.

Post #160 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon May 21, 2018 3:26 am

Kerrsed wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
Hence I see them wanting

2018 Pick 16
2019 Suns unprotected
2021 Heat pick

I'd be hesitant giving up our own unprotected pick.

I'd rather have another high pick in THIS draft, than a questionable pick in next years not-so-talent-filled draft.

Yeah I'm on board with that after thinking on it for a bit.