2018 NBA Draft 2.0 - pick #7, #22 . - Merged

[BullsInBuffalo]

Wendall Carter Jr is not like Taj Gibson. Like, at all...

[johnnyvann840]

People just won't put those guys ahead of Ayton because of Ayton's physical size and strength.. but your physical size and strength does not make you a better basketball player than the other guys. It actually makes it easier to dominate in college and although it will certainly help him at the NBA level a lot he won't have that same advantage all the time

[JohnnyKILLroy]

The Taj comp is dumb. Taj was like 30yr old rookie compared to Carter and the game has changed tremendously since Taj was drafted.

You can’t miss on picks because if your roster sucks you’ll never have a shot at any stud free agents. They’re not going to want to play with total duds. If you miss on picks repeatedly then you’re the Kings. Look at how much it set us back as a franchise in that we’ve missed on guys lately in the draft. Jimmy could still be here if we didn’t whif on so many picks.

People are also dumb in that they think they know what Carter will be long term and what he’ll be like in a hypothetical situation in imaginary playoff land. He’s just a kid with a tremendous floor and plenty of tools to get better. What you see is no where near what he can be. He seems like the type of kid that will be the very best he can be. He’ll most likely maximize his talent over the next 10-15 years. At worst you get a very solid starter, possibly top 10-15 center. What would he have done without Bagley? His numbers would be much better and more people would be on the Carter train. Why do think NBA execs love this kid? In a normal draft without Bagley at his side he could go very very high.

How does he score in the NBA? With any consistency and efficiency?

How does he make the team better? He's not a good defender so now you're playing big without getting that added benefit of keeping say a difference maker on the floor

How good is a 10-15 C in a league that is eliminating them? The 15th best C this year might have been Marcin Gortat. No chance I take the #7 pick on a guy with that ability.

You draft seven or so, you have to find guys who make your team better. I see no way the Bulls get better with Wendell Carter. He's fine, can do his own thing, but he doesn't have a premier skill that makes him super valuable and he's not a good enough athlete that you can live with that. It will take the Bulls maybe two turns through the draft or FA to find an equal or better C for far less cost than the #7 overall pick.

How does he score? Haven’t you watched him play?

He’s solid around the basket.
He shows potential in the pick and pop from mid range
He shows promise from 3

He can potentially score from all 3 levels eventually. He not raw on offense. HE’S 19!!!!

He has nice tools on defense(size/wingspan). He played for Coach K whose defense was terrible as a whole, I think both Bagley and Carter could be better on defense in the NBA. I Think Carter will eventually be a plus defender.

I said at worst he’s a 10-15 center, that’s the floor. At best which I think is very likely he’s 5-7.

He doesn’t have a premier skill or athleticism? Could be right about that but guess what? For his age he doesn’t have any glaring holes either and he’s just at the beginning of his journey. He’s not far away from being very very good.

He’s also if I remember correctly the best passing center going top ten so that’s another element to his game that will be very nice.

Like I said his floor is ridiculously high all around, based on what you know would you bet against him reaching his ceiling? Honestly what do you think his ceiling is?

[the ultimates]

Group think on Carter? What about the group think on JJJ and Bamba and the assumption they'll develop an offensive game when between the three Carter is clearly ahead with them all being around the same age. It's not like we haven't seen bigs who have length and physical skills not develop a real offensive game.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

The Taj comp is dumb. Taj was like 30yr old rookie compared to Carter and the game has changed tremendously since Taj was drafted.

You can’t miss on picks because if your roster sucks you’ll never have a shot at any stud free agents. They’re not going to want to play with total duds. If you miss on picks repeatedly then you’re the Kings. Look at how much it set us back as a franchise in that we’ve missed on guys lately in the draft. Jimmy could still be here if we didn’t whif on so many picks.

People are also dumb in that they think they know what Carter will be long term and what he’ll be like in a hypothetical situation in imaginary playoff land. He’s just a kid with a tremendous floor and plenty of tools to get better. What you see is no where near what he can be. He seems like the type of kid that will be the very best he can be. He’ll most likely maximize his talent over the next 10-15 years. At worst you get a very solid starter, possibly top 10-15 center. What would he have done without Bagley? His numbers would be much better and more people would be on the Carter train. Why do think NBA execs love this kid? In a normal draft without Bagley at his side he could go very very high.

The funny thing is he gets compared to Al Horford, one of the guys people are talking about as the few centers who can stay on the court against small lineups. But the oddity in that is Horford didn't come into the league with his current game. It evolved over time.

Carter is also coming out earlier than Horford did. His whole career will be small ball that wasn’t the case for Horford he had to evolve along the way as you said. Carters coming at this much earlier.

[kulaz3000]

People just won't put those guys ahead of Ayton because of Ayton's physical size and strength.. but your physical size and strength does not make you a better basketball player than the other guys. It actually makes it easier to dominate in college and although it will certainly help him at the NBA level a lot he won't have that same advantage all the time

Put it this way, even with his body and athletic ability, Ayton was horrendous on the defensive end.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Carter moves so much like Taj when he's on the court it's scary.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Trent Jr had a good combine, really killed it in the 5 on 5. May play himself out of reach, but he's a high upside pick I like at 22. Could bust out, but I don't want the next Tony Snell with that pick either.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

If you blurred out the face and jersey and mixed together Taj Gibson highlights and Wendell Carter highlights, you'd have a tough time telling who was who.

[johnnyvann840]

Group think on Carter? What about the group think on JJJ and Bamba and the assumption they'll develop an offensive game when between the three Carter is clearly ahead with them all being around the same age. It's not like we haven't seen bigs who have length and physical skills not develop a real offensive game.

What are you talking about? JJJ just didn't play the minutes. Per 40 he compares quite well with anyone and his efficiency is right there and his 3 pt shooting is better than that of Ayton or Bagley on higher volume.

yeah OK.. JJJ has no real offensive game.

JJJ per 40

20 pts on 12 attempts.

10.6 rebs.

.596 2 pt FG%

.396 from 3 pt on 5 attempts.

.647 TS%

80% FT

2 assists

1.1 steals

5.5 blocks.

[Chicagoat]

I don't see the Gibson comp. You guys might be seeing things. On a side note crazy how everyone was drinking the Mikal Kool-aid last week and now everyone is hoping for Carter.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

One, I bet Carter has put on a signficant amount of weight post season.

Two, I don't think they're analogous in anyway except their measurements. Aaron Gray would be an awful comparison because he's a legit 7' so he's longer.

? Put on weight ?

If anything he’s lost weight, correct me if I’m wrong but he was like 265lbs.

There's a vast difference between what a guy weighs in a program and what he weighs at the combine. Same with height.

But that's beyond the point that's not even worth discussing. Draftexpress had him 257 a year ago and now he's 251. If I had to bet, and this is just eye here, he's more converted than he's gain or loss. In any event, it's miles away from the point.

Drafting Wendell Carter is drafting a player solely based on their individual skills/weaknesses with no concern to how you want to play or the rest of your roster. That's bad drafting.

He’s offensively diverse. He can pass the ball. He shows potential defensively. Hes athletic enough.

How does that not fit in with any style of play or not fit our roster?

Him and Lauri could both be 20-10 threats from anywhere on the court inside and out.

[WindyCityBorn]

The good thing about Carter is it all but guarantees the Bulls will suck next year, which is what they should be trying to do. Carter won't start over Lopez, will likely get 18-20 mpg in a busy front court (Lauri, Carter, Lopez, Portis). Then Portis and Lopez leave in the offseason, and Carter can step up in 2019-2020.

But he is basically Taj Gibson. So there's that.

Carter is not Taj Gibson. People need to stop saying that. And why are people assuming Portis is leaving? There has been nothing to indicate the Bulls don't want to keep him long term. I don't like how people just assume the Bulls won't pay him. He will probably be in serious contention for 6th man of the year.

If the Bulls don't plan to resign him we would be using him to move up in the draft. He definitely has value. Letting him walk would be idiotic and waste of a good asset. You trade good players you don't want to keep. You don't let them walk...

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Group think on Carter? What about the group think on JJJ and Bamba and the assumption they'll develop an offensive game when between the three Carter is clearly ahead with them all being around the same age. It's not like we haven't seen bigs who have length and physical skills not develop a real offensive game.

What are you talking about? JJJ just didn't play the minutes. Per 40 he compares quite well with anyone and his efficiency is right there and his 3 pt shooting is better than that of Ayton or Bagley on higher volume.

yeah OK.. JJJ has no real offensive game.

JJJ per 40

20 pts on 12 attempts.

10.6 rebs.

.596 2 pt FG%

.396 from 3 pt on 5 attempts.

.647 TS%

80% FT

2 assists

1.1 steals

5.5 blocks.

I heart JJJ.

[the ultimates]

Group think on Carter? What about the group think on JJJ and Bamba and the assumption they'll develop an offensive game when between the three Carter is clearly ahead with them all being around the same age. It's not like we haven't seen bigs who have length and physical skills not develop a real offensive game.

What are you talking about? JJJ just didn't play the minutes. Per 40 he compares quite well with anyone and his efficiency and 3 pt shooting is better than that of Ayton or Bagley.

yeah OK.. JJJ has no real offensive game.

JJJ per 40

20 pts on 12 attempts.

10.6 rebs.

.596 2 pt FG%

.396 from 3 pt on 5 attempts.

.647 TS%

80% FT

2 assists

1.1 steals

5.5 blocks.

Did I say he had no offensive game? Do you think he has a better offensive game than Carter right now? He shows flashes but far from anything consistent hence the projections about his offense.

[DanTown8587]

The Taj comp is dumb. Taj was like 30yr old rookie compared to Carter and the game has changed tremendously since Taj was drafted.

You can’t miss on picks because if your roster sucks you’ll never have a shot at any stud free agents. They’re not going to want to play with total duds. If you miss on picks repeatedly then you’re the Kings. Look at how much it set us back as a franchise in that we’ve missed on guys lately in the draft. Jimmy could still be here if we didn’t whif on so many picks.

People are also dumb in that they think they know what Carter will be long term and what he’ll be like in a hypothetical situation in imaginary playoff land. He’s just a kid with a tremendous floor and plenty of tools to get better. What you see is no where near what he can be. He seems like the type of kid that will be the very best he can be. He’ll most likely maximize his talent over the next 10-15 years. At worst you get a very solid starter, possibly top 10-15 center. What would he have done without Bagley? His numbers would be much better and more people would be on the Carter train. Why do think NBA execs love this kid? In a normal draft without Bagley at his side he could go very very high.

How does he score in the NBA? With any consistency and efficiency?

How does he make the team better? He's not a good defender so now you're playing big without getting that added benefit of keeping say a difference maker on the floor

How good is a 10-15 C in a league that is eliminating them? The 15th best C this year might have been Marcin Gortat. No chance I take the #7 pick on a guy with that ability.

You draft seven or so, you have to find guys who make your team better. I see no way the Bulls get better with Wendell Carter. He's fine, can do his own thing, but he doesn't have a premier skill that makes him super valuable and he's not a good enough athlete that you can live with that. It will take the Bulls maybe two turns through the draft or FA to find an equal or better C for far less cost than the #7 overall pick.

How does he score? Haven’t you watched him play?

He’s solid around the basket.
He shows potential in the pick and pop from mid range
He shows promise from 3

He can potentially score from all 3 levels eventually. He not raw on offense. HE’S 19!!!!

He has nice tools on defense(size/wingspan). He played for Coach K whose defense was terrible as a whole, I think both Bagley and Carter could be better on defense in the NBA. I Think Carter will eventually be a plus defender.

I said at worst he’s a 10-15 center, that’s the floor. At best which I think is very likely he’s 5-7.

He doesn’t have a premier skill or athleticism? Could be right about that but guess what? For his age he doesn’t have any glaring holes either and he’s just at the beginning of his journey. He’s not far away from being very very good.

He’s also if I remember correctly the best passing center going top ten so that’s another element to his game that will be very nice.

Like I said his floor is ridiculously high all around, based on what you know would you bet against him reaching his ceiling? Honestly what do you think his ceiling is?

When I watched Carter play against length that is typical to the NBA (Florida State, Michigan State, Kansas), Carter struggled to consistently get and finish good looks. He fights hard for loose balls and he benefitted a ton from playing next to Bagley in a way that teams couldn't keep them both off the glass.

If I had to give a name and skill set, it wouldn't surprise me if he played similarly to a cross between Ed Davis and Bobby Portis. I think he can beat a lot of bench units and simply playing hard and being active around the rim will always play well statistically for a big man; I just think his three point shot is so slow and has to be set (he also took a whopping 2.6 threes per 100 so it's not like this is a guy, no matter the percentages, that's going to make a ton of threes) and I just don't see him defensively ever being elite at that end. At the end of the day, you're hoping he's passable.

The main problem for me is you play him with Lauri and teams just throw their bigs on Carter and their 6'7/6'8 wings on Lauri and Lauri isn't going to really be that effective on that matchup in a P&R setting. Lauri is quick against bigs but he's not going to be out there breaking down big men. Allowing opposing teams to guard Lauri with their 3/4 guys is simply not a future to winning basketball for this team. I'm not saying you play Lauri 30+ minutes at the five but the C next to Lauri needs to be more Robin Lopez than Wendell Carter.

It's always weird to me how people give scouting reports on players and never mention what it does to the rest of the team. The reason picks are good or bad isn't just their own skills, it's how they impact your team.

[WindyCityBorn]

Draft a guard or wing. Trading down not a bad option either.

Or if you're going big, should be one with a high degree of mobility. Not a true center.

That's fine, but I don't see a wing or guard in this draft where the Bulls are positioned to be that's changing the landscape.

If Carter Jr can't stay on the floor in the Finals, is a wing from this draft making a discernible difference that deep in the postseason?

Luka is the only one in this draft imo.

Zhaire will almost surely be there.

If Clippers will give their 2 picks for #7, you take that.

No thanks. We don't need another undersized wing.

[bearadonisdna]

If history serves us right, tanking is better without bigs.
Drafting carter wont mean the bulls suck but he would be a 4th big kind of.

I think the bulls admit they need perimeter help. In a way carter fits the bill but it would be interesting if the bulls board was luka, mpj, mikal/miles, young or something like that.

[Red Larrivee]

You can’t miss on picks
How does he score? Haven’t you watched him play?

He’s solid around the basket.
He shows potential in the pick and pop from mid range
He shows promise from 3

He can potentially score from all 3 levels eventually. He not raw on offense. HE’S 19!

Yeah, I'm confused as to why Carter's offensive game is being talked about as limited. He's a very good finisher, respectable shooter, good passer, moves well without the ball and has a post game. You could easily make the case he was underutilized despite that. Carter only had 9 games where he attempted 10 or more field goals. Bagley had 27.

Yet, he still produced 20.3 points per 40 minutes on a 62.8 TS%. That's pretty good for an 18-year-old.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Dantares]

You want to talk about groupthink?

Every draft this board suffers from “love the one you’re with” syndrome. They hype the players available in the Bulls’ range at the expense of the players expected to be taken earlier.

There are a small handful of posters who said Carter compared favorably to Ayton, Bagley and JJJ prior to the lottery (my mans Davell comes to mind). But there are a whole lot of others who now love Carter because he’s the one who’ll say yes to prom.

Or now that the lottery is over we have a much clearer picture of what could be there when we pick thus the conversation shifts to different players?

I’m not talking about the conversation. Talk about Carter all you want. He’s squarely in the Bulls range.

I’m talking about the reimagining of his potential since last week. If we’d vaulted into the top 3 on lottery night, we’d attack anyone who suggested taking Carter like white blood cells. But now he’s on par with Ayton or Bagley or according to some.

This is just what we do on this board. Year in, year out.

I honestly think it's more strange that people are just now realizing Carter's potential. Did some people jump on the Carter bandwagon now that he is in the 7 range? yeah probably but the fact of the matter is advanced stats and the eye test suggest this kid can be an elite player on both ends of the floor. The more people watch video of him the more they are realizing what nba scouts have been seeing for a while now.

"Kid is a stud, can play inside and out," said the executive. "He'll be better with more spacing in our league."

Scouts have named Al Horford and Elton Brand as comparisons for Carter, a 6'10", 259-pound interchangeable big man at the 4 and 5 positions.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2756996-the-sleeper-we-all-know-about-nba-scouts-love-dukes-other-top-10-prospect

Carter finished with the best defensive real plus-minus (7.5) and defensive rating (92.8) on the team. When Bagley went out for a few games this season, Duke’s defense looked much better, as Carter was able to man more minutes at center and alongside another good defender in Javin DeLaurier (6.4 DRPM and 94.0 defensive rating).