The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Revived]

Chill. It's more likely one of the top two sucks than they're both great and are all-stars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_draft

I read his post and it reminded me of the 2014 draft where people said the same exact thing about Wiggins/Parker....and look at em now and who the best player from that draft ended up being...

So you're saying Ayton and Luka are both going to never be All Stars. Cool.

LiAngelo for #1!!!!!!!!!

No what I’m saying is that the draft is a crapshoot and that anyone who doesn’t believe these two players will be All Stars aren’t “morons”.

Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins were way more hyped than both these players....how many All Star games have they made combined again?

[Revived]

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[King4Day]

If you want 20 and 10 guy, you should throw some money at Kanter this offseason. he' s a free agent I believe and given minutes he' ll give you those numbers.

He averaged 14 and 11 this year. Ayton is going to be way better. What kind of production is quese and bender giving us ???

Bender+16= maybe Wendell Carter

I have a small feeling Carter is going to wind up going top 5.

[MrMiyagi]

Well, he averaged less than 25 mins and was playing for Hornacek, so there's that. I'm not saying Ayton will be better or worse, just answering your question about ability to add 20 and 10 guy (well almost 19 and 11 in Kanters case). Not that difficult if you just looking for those two numbers.
I'm still quite high on Bender btw - big guys develop longer in NBA and that is provided you actually have a good coach, which in Benders case has been for less than a year. Yes, he is not typical 'all me' american player, he's used to very different type of game (and lacks confidence in his abilities which is kind of Maccabis fault tbh), but I think he'll get there.

on the topic of Ayton vs. Doncic - I wouldn't be upset with either, but I prefer Doncic. The way the game is going, he and his skill set is way more valuable than Ayton. and at this point, it's a legitimate worry will Ayton be able to succeed and not be eliminated to the roles Kanter and Howard are playing. And if you expect the game to go back to dominant bigs, analytics won't allow for that.

Bender is good because bigs take long to develop.... Ayton is bad because he's good right now?

Okay.

again if you read what I wrote, not saying Bender is good, I said I still have faith Bender can become good. And nobody knows if Ayton is good right now as he hasn't played a single minute against serious competition yet. He could be good from day one, but at this point its only a speculation, just like about Doncic.

Serious question, would you trade Bender for DeAndre Ayton? Because I think it's pretty obvious Ayton is going to be good. So is Luka. I just don't like his fit as much as I like Ayton's.

[King4Day]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

[King4Day]

While my opinions are changing each day, I wouldn't be opposed to moving the #1 pick and trading back with a team like Memphis if it meant landing Doncic and a really good asset.

Are there any of those 10 minutes 'player breakdown' videos out there that show the positives and negatives of a player (with commentary)?

[8on]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

Not yet. Do you?

[MrMiyagi]

I read his post and it reminded me of the 2014 draft where people said the same exact thing about Wiggins/Parker....and look at em now and who the best player from that draft ended up being...

So you're saying Ayton and Luka are both going to never be All Stars. Cool.

LiAngelo for #1!!!!!!!!!

No what I’m saying is that the draft is a crapshoot and that anyone who doesn’t believe these two players will be All Stars aren’t “morons”.

Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins were way more hyped than both these players....how many All Star games have they made combined again?

But are they busts? Relatively speaking, maybe, but Wiggins is still 23 and Parker has had a bad knee injury. Embiid still might not ever play a full season. So yes, the future is not easily predicted, but if injuries don't tear Doncic and Ayton apart, they're very likely to succeed in the NBA. There is no bad pick.

This draft is more similar to the Oden-Durant draft, except neither have injury issues going in. Oden would've been a hell of a player had he been healthy. These kind of drafts are rare, but they do happen. ****, if Darko wasn't unexpectedly taken 2nd overall, that draft's top 4 would've been great.

[Bob8]

While my opinions are changing each day, I wouldn't be opposed to moving the #1 pick and trading back with a team like Memphis if it meant landing Doncic and a really good asset.

Are there any of those 10 minutes 'player breakdown' videos out there that show the positives and negatives of a player (with commentary)?

Watch on YouTube

[JMac1]

I want to say this again:

It doesn’t matter what you did in the Euroleague or Division I.

It matters what we think you’ll do in the NBA.

Definitely, which is why Luka's fit, drive, fire, bbiq, court vision, ability to make others better, etc, seems like such a seamless transition.

Ayton should be definitely be a solid scorer and rebounder...not completely sure about anything outside of that...has the physical tools...not sure about the drive, desire and all that even after watching him all year.

But had I known we'd end up with Ayton at the beginning of the year or even pre lottery I would have been happy.

I think Ayton’s rebounding is a bit too overhyped. He actually struggles boxing out and gets most rebounds due to sheer athleticism and size.

Will he have that same athleticism and size advantage in the NBA that he had over a bunch of college kids? Debatable imo.

It doesn’t matter how he gets em, as long as he gets them. If he has to adjust at the next level, I’m sure he will. Again, we have to be careful with the over assessments going on. Gobert gets rebounds because he long. Lebron gets to the rim because he is a bully. VC just jumped over everyone.

[Bob8]

While my opinions are changing each day, I wouldn't be opposed to moving the #1 pick and trading back with a team like Memphis if it meant landing Doncic and a really good asset.

Are there any of those 10 minutes 'player breakdown' videos out there that show the positives and negatives of a player (with commentary)?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[JoRain]

Bender is good because bigs take long to develop.... Ayton is bad because he's good right now?

Okay.

again if you read what I wrote, not saying Bender is good, I said I still have faith Bender can become good. And nobody knows if Ayton is good right now as he hasn't played a single minute against serious competition yet. He could be good from day one, but at this point its only a speculation, just like about Doncic.

Serious question, would you trade Bender for DeAndre Ayton? Because I think it's pretty obvious Ayton is going to be good. So is Luka. I just don't like his fit as much as I like Ayton's.

10 years ago it wouldn't be a question, now I'd have to think about it a bit. As things stand now, I'd still do it of course, as I said, I wouldn't be upset with Suns drafting him, but there is a slight worry that I might regret that in a few years. I do get the fit thing with Doncic and in that regard situation with Ayton is more clear. At the same time, if Ayton cannot overcome his shortcomings, he'll be playing a role not lead the franchise. psych eval and background eval is going to be such a key here. In that regard we know Doncic can do it against the best of them.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

That is a great piece of writing. It is a MUST read for the new face of the PHX Suns!

Some quotes from the article:

"He almost has a supernatural strength," Miller said. "His mobility is incredible. His love for the game and his intelligence are shocking to me. A lot of times when you're that big, you just have to play basketball. I can't say enough about how smart he is. And I think that's going to serve him well. He's a talent like I haven't seen before."

"You know who he is? Physically, he's like Dwight Howard but more developed at that age," said one NBA scout who has watched Ayton multiple times this season. "But he shoots 3-pointers. He's Dwight with a 3-ball. How crazy is that? We haven't seen anybody with that combination. He moves like a 6-5 dude. He's a guy who will make an impact on day one. He's a franchise-changer."

"I just have a hard time believing there is anybody better than [Ayton]," Miller said that evening.

"I will dive on the floor for a loose ball," Ayton said. "That's how I'm trained. I can guard a guard if I want to. That's just that price. I'm not gonna sit here and let you score on me. That's in my blood."

Most opponents send an extra defender or two to help on Ayton. That's why the team shoots 39.2 percent from the 3-point line when he's on the floor and just 34 percent when he's on the bench, according to HoopLens.com. (think about Booker here - OMG)

Love his humble beginnings: "Most people say they're in poverty because they've got a little Android [phone]," Ayton said. "Those people [in the Bahamas] don't have phones. No house phones. People live in wood houses, straw houses. No electricity and barely any water, even though we're surrounded by water. My mom and dad, they really did a good job because they did their best to not show us that part of the world."
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There are some serious and passionate Doncic supporters... and Doncic does look like an awesome prospect who will do well in the NBA. BUT there is no way in this crazy world that McD and Sarver draft Doncic over Ayton. Ayton simply has too much potential. He is generational. He is a physical outlier that we have not seen in decades.

Since the 2010 draft there is one player, maybe, who would have been drafted ahead of DeAndre Ayton. That player is Anthony Davis in 2012. Some may say Simmons, Towns or Irving... but if Ayton were in those drafts, I think he still would have been #1.

This thread is Ayton vs. Doncic. It is not close. Ayton is the #1 pick for all of the reasons we have beaten to death. You can NOT pass on his current day physical gifts, skills and his future potential in the NBA.

One thing that hasn't been discussed enough is Ayton's fit in PHX. Booker will get a vote. Jackson will too. They have kind of already voted. McD and Sarver will look at team chemistry and draft the local kid with collegiate experience who plays a position of need on our current roster.

There are more potential chemistry issues with Doncic than with Ayton. Consider an old quote from Booker around the time of the Bender draft year, that he prefers NCAA experienced players vs. unproven foreign players. Don't ask me for the link... maybe someone else can post it?

Hope this has helped a little bit. The Doncic talk is cute and all... but reality is Ayton will be our pick. It. Makes. Too. Much. Sense.

Let's all welcome our newest franchise player - DeAndre Ayton - with open arms as PHX Suns fans.

I agree Suns will take Ayton. But I have one logical problem. If Ayton is that incredible good already, how Arizona couldn’t beat 13 seat team in NCAA tournament? He should single-handedly beat them. Today even Durant was mentioned as comparison. And even more strangly, Buffalo’s coach target Ayton in D. Far the best player in this draft? Something doesn’t add up. And if he couldn’t help Arizona, how will he help Suns, who were dead last in much more difficult competition?

Ben Simmons didn't even lead his team to the NCAA Tournament in a weak SEC conference. Is he helping the 76ers?

He also wasn't playing with other NBA prospects or ranked #3 in the preseason because of the rest of the talent on the team.

[Bob8]

While my opinions are changing each day, I wouldn't be opposed to moving the #1 pick and trading back with a team like Memphis if it meant landing Doncic and a really good asset.

Are there any of those 10 minutes 'player breakdown' videos out there that show the positives and negatives of a player (with commentary)?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[TheLogician]

It's quite simple really. NBA is far above Euroleague in terms of talent, and Euroleague is far above NCAA. Ayton might have done well in the Euroleague, but we will never know (Euroleague bigs are allowed to be very physical). Whereas Doncic for sure would have dominated the NCAA. Actually, I think Luka's stock might be even higher if he competed in the NCAA. He probably would have averaged 35/9/9 with great percentages and carried his team to the NCAA Finals, or even won it. Dude just makes everyone around him much better.

What if he averaged 14/5/3? Would you still say he's worthy of the #1 pick?

Moot point, because he wouldn't have averaged that. As I said, it would have been somewhere in the 35/9/9 range more or less, depending on the talent level of the team. 99%

This is rich. Thanks for making my day.

[DirtyDez]

I ask myself to be critical, so I did some more reading. I need a little more Luka in my life, but here’s what I found out about Ayton:

there are moments that came frequently enough during the season where he couldn’t make an 8 footer, didn’t have the right touch around the basket. there were nights he wouldn’t be proud of.

then there’s this. 32 pts on 16 shots. he made 13 of them. most of them were at least 6 feet away:

Watch on YouTube

I’m still impressed. They say no one works harder than DA. If that’s true, he can be an absolute monster. If he can do that, now, imagine what he can do at 21?

He could average 30 in this league. I firmly believe that. He’s not there yet, but there are flashes of Kevin Durant-ness where he just doesn’t miss.

I promise you guys I will watch as much Luka as I can.

If that is indeed the case, then I would be happy drafting him even though I lean toward Luka. I have watched a few games with Ayton where he just doesn't look interested in playing help defense. I saw multiple times where a layup is shot and it looks like a player with Ayton's length and quickness should be able to block the shot, but he just stands there watching it. If he truly has drive and a champion's work ethic, then I will be glad he's on our team.

Yeah, I don't know who "they" is, and I watched AZ this year, and read a lot about him. I had read before that he works hard in weight room but not always the most in practice at one point.

I'd like to see a link and reference to who said that and about what. I think it's pretty evident he's worked a bit on his offensive repertoire on his own in the past, but outside of that I hadn't heard that.

[King4Day]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

Not yet. Do you?

Some of his foot work and shooting and the way he uses his screen man to navigate around defenses seems similar. I haven't watched a lot of him though to really tell.
When i watched his highlights against Porzingis, I got Nash vibes.

[Bob8]

Watch on YouTube

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[8on]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

Not yet. Do you?

Some of his foot work and shooting and the way he uses his screen man to navigate around defenses seems similar. I haven't watched a lot of him though to really tell.
When i watched his highlights against Porzingis, I got Nash vibes.

He gets a pass because he’s so young, and Nash was, what, 30 when he came back?

Here’s my question: Doncic has been playing high level basketball for a long time. What if he’s peaked?

[Bob8]

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