The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Revived]

Unless Ayton has a KAT like rookie season we will likely still be a bottomfeeder team, at least a year from being two years away. We talkin' playoffs?

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

[saintEscaton]

Unless Ayton has a KAT like rookie season we will likely still be a bottomfeeder team, at least a year from being two years away. We talkin' playoffs?

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

Embiid/Simmons blows Booker/Ayton out of the water and Philly had the third-best defensive rating and fourth-best plus/minus differential. Main reason why they were able to go on that run and finish out strong, they needed arguably the best rookie campaign since Lebron from Simmons and a helluva All-Star season from Embiid in his first fully healthy year to get there

[Kerrsed]

Lets bring in KG, jk but kinda serious..... In all honesty, I think its all going to come down to Ayton's medicals and interview.
I promise you Booker will be at the stadium and he will be voicing his Pro-Ayton opinions to our FO.

BWG's idea: "Bad Boy" Ben Wallace perhaps?

Would prefer TIm Duncan over Wallace imo.

....or we could just stick with Garnett. As i mentioned before, He has worked with the top big drafted for like 2 years now (Embiid/KAT), but also worked training other bigs as well. He loves teaching them and says he wishes he could teach/work out every top young future big.

It would almost be like when we were sending guys like Lopez to work with Olajuwon over the summer. Dont think he would take an assistant coach (Big Man coach) this early, but its something he said he has interest in.

Ayton already has that offense that Garnett didnt even have, he just needs Garnett to help him on the defensive end and we would be golden.

[Saberestar]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

No, not at all. He reminds me an hybrid of Turkoglu and Ginobili.

The player that reminds me of Nash is Trae Young. Similar skillset, similar size, pure talent.

[Kerrsed]

Unless Ayton has a KAT like rookie season we will likely still be a bottomfeeder team, at least a year from being two years away. We talkin' playoffs?

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

I dont think we will be a bottom feeder, but i am realistic when i say i believe that it will ba 2 years before we are a real playoff team, and probably 5 years before we are considered a "REAL" contender for a title.

[saintEscaton]

Unless Ayton has a KAT like rookie season we will likely still be a bottomfeeder team, at least a year from being two years away. We talkin' playoffs?

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

I dont think we will be a bottom feeder, but i am realistic when i say i believe that it will ba 2 years before we are a real playoff team, and probably 5 years before we are considered a "REAL" contender for a title.

So at best late lottery next year?

[bwgood77]

Unless Ayton has a KAT like rookie season we will likely still be a bottomfeeder team, at least a year from being two years away. We talkin' playoffs?

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

Because there are 9 teams in the west with 46+ wins, and most of those are pretty young teams...not declining teams.

But the main thing about Philly is that Embiid also didn't play much last year...just 31 games....and he REALLY got going his last 10 or so games...they went 8-2 in the last 10 games he played, and some of those were really good teams.

So they basically added probably a top 3 two way C, if not the best one, and Simmons, who had a legendary rookie season....but he had already been with the team a year.

And that conference is weak. Boston was missing their top two players and still finished 2nd. Cleveland stunk much of the year...a few teams really regressed or were really inconsistent. The only (other) surprise good tough team was Indiana.

And then of course Ayton couldn't lift a college team with 2 other pro prospects that will be drafted to win a preseason or postseason tournament game so there is only so much he can do.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

No, not at all. He reminds me an hybrid of Turkoglu and Ginobili.

The player that reminds me of Nash is Trae Young. Similar skillset, similar size, pure talent.

I kind of like lamar odom as a doncic comp.

I know some people love him but I have to admit I'm pretty happy the suns aren't sitting at 4 considering young. Im just not sold. **** look at how teams are hunting little guards in the playoff.

[Kerrsed]

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

I dont think we will be a bottom feeder, but i am realistic when i say i believe that it will ba 2 years before we are a real playoff team, and probably 5 years before we are considered a "REAL" contender for a title.

So at best late lottery next year?

I believe so. I think we will be the proud owners of a pick somewhere in the #12-#14 range. I also think this team was better than we showed. From tanking games on purpose to sitting Booker unnecessarily for weeks on end to switching coaches/systems and learning on the fly, i really believe we could have been around the 7th or 8th pick this season (But am super glad we arnt). Remember the anti-tanking advocates early on in the season with the "Its too early to be tanking games" and all the way up to march with the newly revised "Its too late to be tanking games"....oh god, those were the days!

But yeah, after moves made this offseason, new coach, new system, building chemistry with new players, i think with the correct core in place we will be set up for 2 more seasons of late lotto picks, then playoff runs from there on out.

[BobbieL]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

No, not at all. He reminds me an hybrid of Turkoglu and Ginobili.

The player that reminds me of Nash is Trae Young. Similar skillset, similar size, pure talent.

I kind of like lamar odom as a doncic comp.

I know some people love him but I have to admit I'm pretty happy the suns aren't sitting at 4 considering young. Im just not sold. **** look at how teams are hunting little guards in the playoff.

Lamar Odom is a good comp for Doncic

As to your small guard, I too am not sold on Young - just from a size wise. Same with SExton. Also why I think Shaq Harrison will be on the roster over Ulis. Ulis is too damn small.

[Saberestar]

Moot point, because he wouldn't have averaged that. As I said, it would have been somewhere in the 35/9/9 range more or less, depending on the talent level of the team. 99%

This is rich. Thanks for making my day.

No problem. Always happy to provide some facts for the less informed

35/9/9.....

Why not 50/15/15?

[Jstock12]

This is rich. Thanks for making my day.

No problem. Always happy to provide some facts for the less informed

35/9/9.....

Why not 50/15/15?

On a **** team why not But if we're talking a good, winning team, those are the stats I think Luka is capable of producing at the NCAA level of basketball.

[bwgood77]

I dont think we will be a bottom feeder, but i am realistic when i say i believe that it will ba 2 years before we are a real playoff team, and probably 5 years before we are considered a "REAL" contender for a title.

So at best late lottery next year?

I believe so. I think we will be the proud owners of a pick somewhere in the #12-#14 range. I also think this team was better than we showed. From tanking games on purpose to sitting Booker unnecessarily for weeks on end to switching coaches/systems and learning on the fly, i really believe we could have been around the 7th or 8th pick this season (But am super glad we arnt). Remember the anti-tanking advocates early on in the season with the "Its too early to be tanking games" and all the way up to march with the newly revised "Its too late to be tanking games"....oh god, those were the days!

But yeah, after moves made this offseason, new coach, new system, building chemistry with new players, i think with the correct core in place we will be set up for 2 more seasons of late lotto picks, then playoff runs from there on out.

I think the West will probably still kind of be a bloodbath, depending on a few things, like the Lakers and who they sign in FA, who Memphis drafts and if Conley/Gasol are healthy...like if they have those two and Doncic and keep Evans I think they will be competitive.

The Clippers will probably be pretty competitive. All the playoff teams will probably be pretty tough...the Spurs if Kawhi returns. If he doesn't they probably still will be fringe playoff unless they intentionally start a rebuild.

OKC will likely regress but who knows if Presti puts something together again.

And of course the Kings and Mavs will add top five picks. I think we will probably be better than 2-5 of the teams int he west maybe and probably better than 4-6 in the east. So my guess is somewhere between 7th-12th in reverse standings next year. And that's not because I don't think we will be making progress...it's just tough to make a big move.

There is always a chance we could pull a turnaround year like we did with KJ's first full year or Nash's return or even the 13-14 crazy year but those types of years are pretty rare, and the key in the former two were elite floor generals with great court vision and scoring and then in the 13-14, having two of them with the Dragic/Bledsoe combo, but mainly the crazy successful pick n roll/pop game of Dragic and Frye that was so successful.

That might be our biggest problem. Not having that elite floor general or even a pick n roll maestro.

However, I really do believe in Kokoskov so maybe we do run something crazy good that surprises everyone. The biggest key though will be that primary ball handler and there are not many options.

[Revived]

Unless Ayton has a KAT like rookie season we will likely still be a bottomfeeder team, at least a year from being two years away. We talkin' playoffs?

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

Because there are 9 teams in the west with 46+ wins, and most of those are pretty young teams...not declining teams.

But the main thing about Philly is that Embiid also didn't play much last year...just 31 games....and he REALLY got going his last 10 or so games...they went 8-2 in the last 10 games he played, and some of those were really good teams.

So they basically added probably a top 3 two way C, if not the best one, and Simmons, who had a legendary rookie season....but he had already been with the team a year.

And that conference is weak. Boston was missing their top two players and still finished 2nd. Cleveland stunk much of the year...a few teams really regressed or were really inconsistent. The only (other) surprise good tough team was Indiana.

And then of course Ayton couldn't lift a college team with 2 other pro prospects that will be drafted to win a preseason or postseason tournament game so there is only so much he can do.

I’m not saying Ayton is capable of it but I’m sure sure the national media expectation for the Suns will be to become a playoff especially after Booker’s comments after the season plus winning the lottery plus the supermax they give Booker this summer.

And didn’t Sarver say he wants them in the playoffs by 2019? Or was it 2020?

I think some teams like OKC and Portland could regress in the West leading to opening for other teams from the West.

At the very least, the Suns ought to have a Nuggets type season where they fight for the playoffs till the very end at least.

[D3ko]

Just Remember that if Suns draft Doncic it will take the ball out of Bookers hands and also the one thing that the Suns have never had is a player like Ayton. I like both players but Draft day the Suns need to draft Ayton .

I believe even if we draft Doncic the ball will stay in Bookers hands, as he will end up running the point.

Booker/Jackson/Doncic/Bender/??????

McD and Booker have both spoke on how he will be working on his playmaking skills in the offseason, and i believe this is a major reason why. While Booker might not have the defensive chops to shut down PG's, he has the speed, length, and size to be disruptive against them. Him and Jackson can also switch defensive assignments depending on the make-up of the opposing team, not to mention its not like a single player covers the opposing player the entire game. Too many screens and pick and rolls and other maneuvers are made to switch defenders.

Fully agree with the line up , but in my opinion everyone is out of position.

Doncic is a PG , but he is not a high volume guy, he will share the ball with booker every day without any problem , he has been playing on/off ball all his career .
Jackson as a SF/PF
Bender as a C

[BobbieL]

So at best late lottery next year?

I believe so. I think we will be the proud owners of a pick somewhere in the #12-#14 range. I also think this team was better than we showed. From tanking games on purpose to sitting Booker unnecessarily for weeks on end to switching coaches/systems and learning on the fly, i really believe we could have been around the 7th or 8th pick this season (But am super glad we arnt). Remember the anti-tanking advocates early on in the season with the "Its too early to be tanking games" and all the way up to march with the newly revised "Its too late to be tanking games"....oh god, those were the days!

But yeah, after moves made this offseason, new coach, new system, building chemistry with new players, i think with the correct core in place we will be set up for 2 more seasons of late lotto picks, then playoff runs from there on out.

I think the West will probably still kind of be a bloodbath, depending on a few things, like the Lakers and who they sign in FA, who Memphis drafts and if Conley/Gasol are healthy...like if they have those two and Doncic and keep Evans I think they will be competitive.

The Clippers will probably be pretty competitive. All the playoff teams will probably be pretty tough...the Spurs if Kawhi returns. If he doesn't they probably still will be fringe playoff unless they intentionally start a rebuild.

OKC will likely regress but who knows if Presti puts something together again.

And of course the Kings and Mavs will add top five picks. I think we will probably be better than 2-5 of the teams int he west maybe and probably better than 4-6 in the east. So my guess is somewhere between 7th-12th in reverse standings next year. And that's not because I don't think we will be making progress...it's just tough to make a big move.

There is always a chance we could pull a turnaround year like we did with KJ's first full year or Nash's return or even the 13-14 crazy year but those types of years are pretty rare, and the key in the former two were elite floor generals with great court vision and scoring and then in the 13-14, having two of them with the Dragic/Bledsoe combo, but mainly the crazy successful pick n roll/pop game of Dragic and Frye that was so successful.

That might be our biggest problem. Not having that elite floor general or even a pick n roll maestro.

However, I really do believe in Kokoskov so maybe we do run something crazy good that surprises everyone. The biggest key though will be that primary ball handler and there are not many options.

Rondo on a two year deal? You are right, - the Suns need a floor general. I know other names, Bradley, Smart - but really, Suns need that PG to pair with Booker. Rozier not going anywhere. Two more years of control I think. It would take an awful lot for Ainge to pull that trigger with an unhealthy Irving.

[bwgood77]

The Sixers went from 25 wins to 52 in Simmons rookie season with few key vet additions like Redick, Illyasova, Belinelli etc.

Why can’t Suns do the same thing in Ayton’s rookie season if he’s such a generational talent considering we have two other rising star players in Booker/Jackson as well. Bender could play the Saric role and then we just need to bring in our vets like Philly did.

If the Suns are a bottom feeder team for next 2 seasons like you say then Ryan McDonough won’t be employed very long.

Because there are 9 teams in the west with 46+ wins, and most of those are pretty young teams...not declining teams.

But the main thing about Philly is that Embiid also didn't play much last year...just 31 games....and he REALLY got going his last 10 or so games...they went 8-2 in the last 10 games he played, and some of those were really good teams.

So they basically added probably a top 3 two way C, if not the best one, and Simmons, who had a legendary rookie season....but he had already been with the team a year.

And that conference is weak. Boston was missing their top two players and still finished 2nd. Cleveland stunk much of the year...a few teams really regressed or were really inconsistent. The only (other) surprise good tough team was Indiana.

And then of course Ayton couldn't lift a college team with 2 other pro prospects that will be drafted to win a preseason or postseason tournament game so there is only so much he can do.

I’m not saying Ayton is capable of it but I’m sure sure the national media expectation for the Suns will be to become a playoff especially after Booker’s comments after the season plus winning the lottery plus the supermax they give Booker this summer.

And didn’t Sarver say he wants them in the playoffs by 2019? Or was it 2020?

I think some teams like OKC and Portland could regress in the West leading to opening for other teams from the West.

At the very least, the Suns ought to have a Nuggets type season where they fight for the playoffs till the very end at least.

I think he originally said 2020. Then he told the team he wants them to make it last year. I'm sure he will want and expect them to make it this year. But what he wants and what is realistic are two different things.

Yes, with some regression from a few teams and if we make some crazy good free agent add or trade anything is possible, especially with a coaching staff if our guys work hard. It's pretty rare for a team starting a rookie straight out of one year of college makes the playoffs though. But I guess Boston did it, and then Utah had a rookie with two years of college and Philly a rookie in his second pro year with one year of college, but still pretty rare, particularly if they had the worst record in the league the year before.

[bwgood77]

Just Remember that if Suns draft Doncic it will take the ball out of Bookers hands and also the one thing that the Suns have never had is a player like Ayton. I like both players but Draft day the Suns need to draft Ayton .

I believe even if we draft Doncic the ball will stay in Bookers hands, as he will end up running the point.

Booker/Jackson/Doncic/Bender/??????

McD and Booker have both spoke on how he will be working on his playmaking skills in the offseason, and i believe this is a major reason why. While Booker might not have the defensive chops to shut down PG's, he has the speed, length, and size to be disruptive against them. Him and Jackson can also switch defensive assignments depending on the make-up of the opposing team, not to mention its not like a single player covers the opposing player the entire game. Too many screens and pick and rolls and other maneuvers are made to switch defenders.

You don't want Booker to be the primary ball handler. He's better off ball primarily and being a secondary ball handler. It's asking him to do too much. You want him to get a lot of clean catch and shoot looks if possible. It's fine that he shoots some off the dribble...he's good at it, but it will be easier for him to get open and clean looks playing more off ball.

We need a lot of ball movement in general to maximize everyone on the floor. If we draft Doncic and Booker can guard point guards, great....that will help....we would be very hard to guard with our size too.

[Mjee]

Just Remember that if Suns draft Doncic it will take the ball out of Bookers hands and also the one thing that the Suns have never had is a player like Ayton. I like both players but Draft day the Suns need to draft Ayton .

I believe even if we draft Doncic the ball will stay in Bookers hands, as he will end up running the point.

Booker/Jackson/Doncic/Bender/??????

McD and Booker have both spoke on how he will be working on his playmaking skills in the offseason, and i believe this is a major reason why. While Booker might not have the defensive chops to shut down PG's, he has the speed, length, and size to be disruptive against them. Him and Jackson can also switch defensive assignments depending on the make-up of the opposing team, not to mention its not like a single player covers the opposing player the entire game. Too many screens and pick and rolls and other maneuvers are made to switch defenders.

You don't want Booker to be the primary ball handler. He's better off ball primarily and being a secondary ball handler. It's asking him to do too much. You want him to get a lot of clean catch and shoot looks if possible. It's fine that he shoots some off the dribble...he's good at it, but it will be easier for him to get open and clean looks playing more off ball.

We need a lot of ball movement in general to maximize everyone on the floor. If we draft Doncic and Booker can guard point guards, great....that will help....we would be very hard to guard with our size too.

I would rather use assets (MiL pick, our own 19' 1st, Mia pick, ect) to trade for a all-star pg (Wall, Kemba, Lowry, Conley) and draft Ayton:

PG via trade
Booker
JJ/ Warren
Bender/ Chriss/ FA
Ayton/ Chandler

[Saberestar]

Bobby Marks, ESPN NBA Insider.

Marks talks Karl Anthony Towns, Ayton vs Doncic, and Chriss and Bender.

http://arizonasports.com/category/podcast_player/?a=343753&sid=1015&n=Bickley+%26+Marotta

Bobby Marks has Ayton as his #1 pick.