The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[8on]

thought:
if Warriors-Rockets goes 7, take Doncic
if the Rockets lose tonight, take Ayton

to me it’s all about taking the most unstoppable player.

How do you win in this league? By making shots.

Whoever is better at making shots is my #1 pick. That’s probably Ayton. If we can get Towns for #1, I’m cool with that, too.

[JMac1]

I believe even if we draft Doncic the ball will stay in Bookers hands, as he will end up running the point.

Booker/Jackson/Doncic/Bender/??????

McD and Booker have both spoke on how he will be working on his playmaking skills in the offseason, and i believe this is a major reason why. While Booker might not have the defensive chops to shut down PG's, he has the speed, length, and size to be disruptive against them. Him and Jackson can also switch defensive assignments depending on the make-up of the opposing team, not to mention its not like a single player covers the opposing player the entire game. Too many screens and pick and rolls and other maneuvers are made to switch defenders.

You don't want Booker to be the primary ball handler. He's better off ball primarily and being a secondary ball handler. It's asking him to do too much. You want him to get a lot of clean catch and shoot looks if possible. It's fine that he shoots some off the dribble...he's good at it, but it will be easier for him to get open and clean looks playing more off ball.

We need a lot of ball movement in general to maximize everyone on the floor. If we draft Doncic and Booker can guard point guards, great....that will help....we would be very hard to guard with our size too.

I would rather use assets (MiL pick, our own 19' 1st, Mia pick, ect) to trade for a all-star pg (Wall, Kemba, Lowry, Conley) and draft Ayton:

PG via trade
Booker
JJ/ Warren
Bender/ Chriss/ FA
Ayton/ Chandler

Ding **** Dong! Not Wall though. I would like to get Kemba without giving up TJ. I think we need him to compete early on. Once the young guys get older, not so much.

[Jstock12]

thought:
if Warriors-Rockets goes 7, take Doncic
if the Rockets lose tonight, take Ayton

to me it’s all about taking the most unstoppable player.

How do you win in this league? By making shots.

Whoever is better at making shots is my #1 pick. That’s probably Ayton. If we can get Towns for #1, I’m cool with that, too.

You can make shots and still not have an impact, btw. It's all about the ability to make the teammates around you better than they really are.

[TheLogician]

Doncic had four years in that system. Ayton was one and done.

[JMac1]

Look at the striations and vascularity in his shoulders. You don’t get that by accident. That’s 100 percent hard work for those wondering about his work ethic and discipline.

[Jstock12]

Doncic had four years in that system. Ayton was one and done.

I suppose that's a valid point. Being comfortable with the system can have a big impact on the performance. But it's not like Doncic was only able to perform at a high level in Madrid. He was really good in the EuroBasket 2017 playing for Slovenia as well.

[Superhuman]

thought:
if Warriors-Rockets goes 7, take Doncic
if the Rockets lose tonight, take Ayton

to me it’s all about taking the most unstoppable player.

How do you win in this league? By making shots.

Whoever is better at making shots is my #1 pick. That’s probably Ayton. If we can get Towns for #1, I’m cool with that, too.

You can make shots and still not have an impact, btw. It's all about the ability to make the teammates around you better than they really are.

Ayton simply being a threat down low and from 3PT range already makes his teammates better. He's also adept at passing out of a double team or to cutters. You don't necessarily need a passing PG to win like GSW and Spurs for example.

[Jstock12]

Also, Ayton turns 20 in a month or so. Doncic turns 20 next year. Obviously, it's not a very big deal (especially with big men taking much more time to reach their prime), but it puts it into perspective how impressive Luka's dominance is against the best grown men outside of NBA.

[Jstock12]

thought:
if Warriors-Rockets goes 7, take Doncic
if the Rockets lose tonight, take Ayton

to me it’s all about taking the most unstoppable player.

How do you win in this league? By making shots.

Whoever is better at making shots is my #1 pick. That’s probably Ayton. If we can get Towns for #1, I’m cool with that, too.

You can make shots and still not have an impact, btw. It's all about the ability to make the teammates around you better than they really are.

Ayton simply being a threat down low and from 3PT range already makes his teammates better. He's also adept at passing out of a double team or to cutters. You don't necessarily need a passing PG to win like GSW and Spurs for example.

Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't implying that one or the other doesn't make an impact. Although if I had to choose, I'd say Doncic can make a much bigger impact at this point in time.

[8on]

thought:
if Warriors-Rockets goes 7, take Doncic
if the Rockets lose tonight, take Ayton

to me it’s all about taking the most unstoppable player.

How do you win in this league? By making shots.

Whoever is better at making shots is my #1 pick. That’s probably Ayton. If we can get Towns for #1, I’m cool with that, too.

You can make shots and still not have an impact, btw. It's all about the ability to make the teammates around you better than they really are.

I was doing some research the other day. Fun fact: the 2009-10 Suns still have the fifth highest offensive rating of all time. We gave up 105 PPG and we made the conference finals.

ORtg:
1. ‘87 Lakers - champs
2. ‘17 Warriors - champs
3. ‘92 Bulls - champs
4. ‘88 Celts - conference finals
5. ‘10 Suns - conference finals
6. ‘96 Bulls - champs
7. ‘95 Magic - Finals
8. ‘87 Mavs - first round
9. ‘95 Sonics - first round
10. ‘17 Rockets - second round
11. ‘18 Rockets - conference finals
12. ‘91 Bulls - champs
13. ‘95 Suns - second round
14. ‘05 Suns - conference finals
15. ‘16 Warriors - Finals
16. ‘97 Bulls - champs
17. ‘82 Nuggets - first round
18. ‘95 Jazz - first round
19. ‘85 Lakers - champs
20. ‘90 Lakers - second round

translation:
1. if you have a transcendent offensive player
2. and you beat your opponents by 5 PPG
3. and you didn’t play in the 80’s

you’re at least making the conference finals

I look at it this way: ball movement is a good substitution for top end talent. See: 2014 Spurs, 2018 Celtics.

In looking at this list, having a transcendent scoring talent is more important. You can make the conference finals (see: 2018 Rockets, 90’s Bulls, 2013 & 2014 Heat) without great ball movement if you have a transcendent scoring talent. The 2010 Suns didn’t even have that, nor did they have great ball movement, but they led the league in 3PT% (.412). next best team was Cleveland at 38.1%.

once you make the conference finals, it’s just a matter of matchups.

simply put, you don’t need great ball movement to win a championship.

[DirtyDez]

Doncic had four years in that system. Ayton was one and done.

The extent of Ayton’s development has been AAU and a coach under federal investigation. If Igor is the next Quin Snyder then we have the next AD.

[Jstock12]

thought:
if Warriors-Rockets goes 7, take Doncic
if the Rockets lose tonight, take Ayton

to me it’s all about taking the most unstoppable player.

How do you win in this league? By making shots.

Whoever is better at making shots is my #1 pick. That’s probably Ayton. If we can get Towns for #1, I’m cool with that, too.

You can make shots and still not have an impact, btw. It's all about the ability to make the teammates around you better than they really are.

I was doing some research the other day. Fun fact: the 2009-10 Suns still have the fifth highest offensive rating of all time. We gave up 105 PPG and we made the conference finals.

ORtg:
1. ‘87 Lakers - champs
2. ‘17 Warriors - champs
3. ‘92 Bulls - champs
4. ‘88 Celts - conference finals
5. ‘10 Suns - conference finals
6. ‘96 Bulls - champs
7. ‘95 Magic - Finals
8. ‘87 Mavs - first round
9. ‘95 Sonics - first round
10. ‘17 Rockets - second round
11. ‘18 Rockets - conference finals
12. ‘91 Bulls - champs
13. ‘95 Suns - second round
14. ‘05 Suns - conference finals
15. ‘16 Warriors - Finals
16. ‘97 Bulls - champs
17. ‘82 Nuggets - first round
18. ‘95 Jazz - first round
19. ‘85 Lakers - champs
20. ‘90 Lakers - second round

translation:
1. if you have a transcendent offensive player
2. and you beat your opponents by 5 PPG
3. and you didn’t play in the 80’s

you’re at least making the conference finals

I look at it this way: ball movement is a good substitution for top end talent. See: 2014 Spurs, 2018 Celtics.

In looking at this list, having a transcendent scoring talent is more important. You can make the conference finals (see: 2018 Rockets, 90’s Bulls, 2013 & 2014 Heat) without great ball movement if you have a transcendent scoring talent. The 2010 Suns didn’t even have that, nor did they have great ball movement, but they led the league in 3PT% (.412). next best team was Cleveland at 38.1%.

once you make the conference finals, it’s just a matter of matchups.

simply put, you don’t need great ball movement to win a championship.

Well, both of them look like transcendent offensive players.

[8on]

here’s a list of the top teams in APG since 1990 without a transcendent scoring talent:

1993 Cavs - swept by Bulls
1992 Hornets - missed playoffs
1992 Cavs - lost to Bulls in 6
1991 Cavs - missed playoffs
1993 Clippers - lost in first round to Rockets
2018 Sixers - lost to Boston in 6
1994 Hornets - missed playoffs
1991 Suns - lost in first round
1992 Suns - lost in second round
2000 Timberwolves - lost in first round

what happened to the ‘92 Suns when they added Barkley? Finals. team APG down 5% that year

[8on]

You can make shots and still not have an impact, btw. It's all about the ability to make the teammates around you better than they really are.

I was doing some research the other day. Fun fact: the 2009-10 Suns still have the fifth highest offensive rating of all time. We gave up 105 PPG and we made the conference finals.

ORtg:
1. ‘87 Lakers - champs
2. ‘17 Warriors - champs
3. ‘92 Bulls - champs
4. ‘88 Celts - conference finals
5. ‘10 Suns - conference finals
6. ‘96 Bulls - champs
7. ‘95 Magic - Finals
8. ‘87 Mavs - first round
9. ‘95 Sonics - first round
10. ‘17 Rockets - second round
11. ‘18 Rockets - conference finals
12. ‘91 Bulls - champs
13. ‘95 Suns - second round
14. ‘05 Suns - conference finals
15. ‘16 Warriors - Finals
16. ‘97 Bulls - champs
17. ‘82 Nuggets - first round
18. ‘95 Jazz - first round
19. ‘85 Lakers - champs
20. ‘90 Lakers - second round

translation:
1. if you have a transcendent offensive player
2. and you beat your opponents by 5 PPG
3. and you didn’t play in the 80’s

you’re at least making the conference finals

I look at it this way: ball movement is a good substitution for top end talent. See: 2014 Spurs, 2018 Celtics.

In looking at this list, having a transcendent scoring talent is more important. You can make the conference finals (see: 2018 Rockets, 90’s Bulls, 2013 & 2014 Heat) without great ball movement if you have a transcendent scoring talent. The 2010 Suns didn’t even have that, nor did they have great ball movement, but they led the league in 3PT% (.412). next best team was Cleveland at 38.1%.

once you make the conference finals, it’s just a matter of matchups.

simply put, you don’t need great ball movement to win a championship.

Well, both of them look like transcendent offensive players.

That’s not what I said. I said transcendent scoring talent. Scoring.

[Jstock12]

I was doing some research the other day. Fun fact: the 2009-10 Suns still have the fifth highest offensive rating of all time. We gave up 105 PPG and we made the conference finals.

ORtg:
1. ‘87 Lakers - champs
2. ‘17 Warriors - champs
3. ‘92 Bulls - champs
4. ‘88 Celts - conference finals
5. ‘10 Suns - conference finals
6. ‘96 Bulls - champs
7. ‘95 Magic - Finals
8. ‘87 Mavs - first round
9. ‘95 Sonics - first round
10. ‘17 Rockets - second round
11. ‘18 Rockets - conference finals
12. ‘91 Bulls - champs
13. ‘95 Suns - second round
14. ‘05 Suns - conference finals
15. ‘16 Warriors - Finals
16. ‘97 Bulls - champs
17. ‘82 Nuggets - first round
18. ‘95 Jazz - first round
19. ‘85 Lakers - champs
20. ‘90 Lakers - second round

translation:
1. if you have a transcendent offensive player
2. and you beat your opponents by 5 PPG
3. and you didn’t play in the 80’s

you’re at least making the conference finals

I look at it this way: ball movement is a good substitution for top end talent. See: 2014 Spurs, 2018 Celtics.

In looking at this list, having a transcendent scoring talent is more important. You can make the conference finals (see: 2018 Rockets, 90’s Bulls, 2013 & 2014 Heat) without great ball movement if you have a transcendent scoring talent. The 2010 Suns didn’t even have that, nor did they have great ball movement, but they led the league in 3PT% (.412). next best team was Cleveland at 38.1%.

once you make the conference finals, it’s just a matter of matchups.

simply put, you don’t need great ball movement to win a championship.

Well, both of them look like transcendent offensive players.

That’s not what I said. I said transcendent scoring talent. Scoring.

Please elaborate.

[8on]

Well, both of them look like transcendent offensive players.

That’s not what I said. I said transcendent scoring talent. Scoring.

Please elaborate.

if that was sarcasm, it wasn’t clear.

[Jstock12]

That’s not what I said. I said transcendent scoring talent. Scoring.

Please elaborate.

if that was sarcasm, it wasn’t clear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that Ayton is a transcendent scoring talent and Doncic is not? If so, why do you think so?

[8on]

Please elaborate.

if that was sarcasm, it wasn’t clear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that Ayton is a transcendent scoring talent and Doncic is not? If so, why do you think so?

accurate. it should be obvious why I think that about Ayton.

Doncic might shoot 35% from 3 in the NBA, but there’s nothing transcendent about that. he’s not explosive enough to get into the paint in the Euroleague, so I find it harder to believe he can do it better in the NBA.

where will he score from? what’s his go to move? pass when you can’t get your shot off. correct me if I’m wrong.

[Jstock12]

if that was sarcasm, it wasn’t clear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that Ayton is a transcendent scoring talent and Doncic is not? If so, why do you think so?

accurate. it should be obvious why I think that about Ayton.

Doncic might shoot 35% from 3 in the NBA, but there’s nothing transcendent about that. he’s not explosive enough to get into the paint in the Euroleague, so I find it harder to believe he can do it better in the NBA.

where will he score from? what’s his go to move? pass when you can’t get your shot off. correct me if I’m wrong.

You're making a lot of assumptions about both Doncic and Ayton. Why do you think Doncic is a 35% shooter at best? More importantly, what makes Ayton transcendent then? His post moves are nice, but there's nothing transcendent about them, yet. I also find it a bit ironic how Doncic is being criticized for being a streaky 3PT shooter facing better competition, yet Ayton is regarded as a "3PT threat"... One was being covered by sophisticated defensive schemes concentrating on him, the other one was shooting wide open threes on a very small sample in the competition where most players don't even end up as professional basketball players, let alone Euroleague caliber players.

Both are really good offensive talents, but when it comes down to your definition of "transcendent scorers", both still have a long way to go.

[8on]

The prosecution rests.