2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

[NecessaryEvil]

Is anyone else as surprised as me by the poll results?

I would've thought Bridges would easily be #2. I'm very surprised by that. MPJ is sexy, I like him, but I think I take Bridges over all of the options there. I just think his skillset is the modern NBA and he's a guy who helps you win games. A defense with him and Dunn would be respectable and we all know what a stretch 3/4/5 did with Mirotic.

I know he's not sexy, but for me, Bridges is the guy right now. I just can't roll the dice on MPJ's back yet. Maybe I'll change my opinion as the draft approaches, but thats where I'm at right now.

I hear that, but if MPJ's back is cleared. You're talking about a potential top 10 NBA scorer type at some point. I have no problem with selecting Bridges, if MPJ doesn't have a clean bill of health.

[kulaz3000]

Is anyone else as surprised as me by the poll results?

I would've thought Bridges would easily be #2. I'm very surprised by that. MPJ is sexy, I like him, but I think I take Bridges over all of the options there. I just think his skillset is the modern NBA and he's a guy who helps you win games. A defense with him and Dunn would be respectable and we all know what a stretch 3/4/5 did with Mirotic.

I know he's not sexy, but for me, Bridges is the guy right now. I just can't roll the dice on MPJ's back yet. Maybe I'll change my opinion as the draft approaches, but thats where I'm at right now.

I hear that, but if MPJ's back is cleared. You're talking about a potential top 10 NBA scorer type at some point. I have no problem with selecting Bridges, if MPJ doesn't have a clean bill of health.

Is MPJ really that good of a scorer though? Even against crappy high school competition, he just didn't amaze me.

[kodo]

I agree that JJJ is the better prospect, but I don't think the difference is that massive.

JJJ shot .396 from three. Carter shot .413.

Wendell is easily the better rebounder. Wendell is the better passer. Wendell better finisher at the rim.

The main difference comes from athleticism and defense, not that Carter is a liability in either of those areas. Consider also that Wendell limited to his game to play 2nd fiddle to Bagley and there may be some skills that we didn't see from him. He showed some extra versatility at the HS level, for sure.

I'll take JJJ but playing devils advocate for Wendell a bit because he's underrated.

I think volume is much more important than %.

But JJJ attempted 5 threes per 40, Wendell attempted 1.9 threes per 40.

Wendell also isn't as agile as JJJ once the 3 point attempt is defended:

Spoiler:

VS

JJJ's block rate per 40 is 5.5 vs Wendell's 3.1.

Also the context is more impressive. JJJ plays PF and defends his man tight everywhere along the 3 point line...yet he cleanly blocks shots at the rim. Carter didn't play well until K was forced to go zone, and he was parked near the paint. When Duke was man, Carter & Bagley could not get back to defend the rim.

As much as we can tell from just 1 college season, JJJ looks a lot better. But admittedly, we can't tell much after 1 college season. But in terms of potential, I think that JJJ being only 18 when he'll be drafted is also helping him quite a bit.

[GimmeDat]

Be interesting to find out what the Bulls think of Simons. Very divisive when you ask people about him. Wouldn't take him at 22 but if you somehow end up with another 20's pick, very interesting upside piece.

[GimmeDat]

I agree that JJJ is the better prospect, but I don't think the difference is that massive.

JJJ shot .396 from three. Carter shot .413.

Wendell is easily the better rebounder. Wendell is the better passer. Wendell better finisher at the rim.

The main difference comes from athleticism and defense, not that Carter is a liability in either of those areas. Consider also that Wendell limited to his game to play 2nd fiddle to Bagley and there may be some skills that we didn't see from him. He showed some extra versatility at the HS level, for sure.

I'll take JJJ but playing devils advocate for Wendell a bit because he's underrated.

I think volume is much more important than %.

But JJJ attempted 5 threes per 40, Wendell attempted 1.9 threes per 40.

Wendell also isn't as agile as JJJ once the 3 point attempt is defended:

Spoiler:

VS

JJJ's block rate per 40 is 5.5 vs Wendell's 3.1.

Also the context is more impressive. JJJ plays PF and defends his man tight everywhere along the 3 point line...yet he cleanly blocks shots at the rim. Carter didn't play well until K was forced to go zone, and he was parked near the paint. When Duke was man, Carter & Bagley could not get back to defend the rim.

As much as we can tell from just 1 college season, JJJ looks a lot better. But admittedly, we can't tell much after 1 college season. But in terms of potential, I think that JJJ being only 18 when he'll be drafted is also helping him quite a bit.

This are all good points as well. As I said, I definitely think JJJ >>> Carter. But there's a lot going for Carter as well.

[Hangtime84]

Is anyone else as surprised as me by the poll results?

I would've thought Bridges would easily be #2. I'm very surprised by that. MPJ is sexy, I like him, but I think I take Bridges over all of the options there. I just think his skillset is the modern NBA and he's a guy who helps you win games. A defense with him and Dunn would be respectable and we all know what a stretch 3/4/5 did with Mirotic.

I know he's not sexy, but for me, Bridges is the guy right now. I just can't roll the dice on MPJ's back yet. Maybe I'll change my opinion as the draft approaches, but thats where I'm at right now.

I hear that, but if MPJ's back is cleared. You're talking about a potential top 10 NBA scorer type at some point. I have no problem with selecting Bridges, if MPJ doesn't have a clean bill of health.

Is MPJ really that good of a scorer though? Even against crappy high school competition, he just didn't amaze me.

My small bit insideinfo about MPJ.

He injured his back sophomore year and been playing in pain since then. He been at about 70% to 80% until got so painful it had to stop.

That’s why he looks so stiff.

Personal opinion now. he is still growing and who knows what will happen in the future. One thing for sure I’m rooting for this kid.

[kulaz3000]

I hear that, but if MPJ's back is cleared. You're talking about a potential top 10 NBA scorer type at some point. I have no problem with selecting Bridges, if MPJ doesn't have a clean bill of health.

Is MPJ really that good of a scorer though? Even against crappy high school competition, he just didn't amaze me.

My small bit insideinfo about MPJ.

He injured his back sophomore year and been playing in pain since then. He been at about 70% to 80% until got so painful it had to stop.

That’s why he looks so stiff.

Personal opinion now. he is still growing and who knows what will happen in the future. One thing for sure I’m rooting for this kid.

That's fine and I don't find that unreasonable. But it still leads me to ask, if he has never been 100% for several years, do we really know what he is capable of? If he didn't amaze previously, is that additional 20% of health going to turn him into a diamond in the rough?

I don't know, I just feel that he is going to just be an adequate player, but he isn't going to be that star player many thought he would be in high school. Perhaps it's just me, and truth be told besides a handful of clips, I simple haven't seen him enough, but also, besides the way he moves, he hasn't exactly shown elite skill in any area of his game, besides having a bit of range as a 6'10 player, but those types of players aren't all that rare these days.

If we draft him, I really hope I'm wrong, and be becomes the next Kevin Durant. But I hope it's not the Bulls who take that gamble on him.

[BigUps]

Is anyone else as surprised as me by the poll results?

I would've thought Bridges would easily be #2. I'm very surprised by that. MPJ is sexy, I like him, but I think I take Bridges over all of the options there. I just think his skillset is the modern NBA and he's a guy who helps you win games. A defense with him and Dunn would be respectable and we all know what a stretch 3/4/5 did with Mirotic.

I know he's not sexy, but for me, Bridges is the guy right now. I just can't roll the dice on MPJ's back yet. Maybe I'll change my opinion as the draft approaches, but thats where I'm at right now.

I hear that, but if MPJ's back is cleared. You're talking about a potential top 10 NBA scorer type at some point. I have no problem with selecting Bridges, if MPJ doesn't have a clean bill of health.

I get the attraction to MPJ. I don't need sold on him at all, but that back just scares me no matter what the medical reports will say. 19 year old kid that has had back surgery is enough for me to be scared.

However, I won't be upset with us taking him. I'm fine swinging for the fences, but if I had to make the decision I'd be going Bridges right now. Bridges will have a very nice NBA career and is the type of player that helps you win a championship. If MPJ isn't a superstar I don't feel like he will help you win a title.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

It explains the rate at which players produce. It's not literally meant to imagine someone playing an entire college game.

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Their stats per game actually explain the rate at which they produce. Per numbers are used to make fans feel better about their favorite players, throwing things like fatigue, foul rates, and defensive adjustments completely out the window.

No it doesn't. Per 36/40 evens the field and looks at the rate you produce. It shows you that just because a player averaged 17 points in 35 minutes, doesn't mean he produced at a higher rate than someone who average 8 in 12 minutes.

It doesn't ignore foul rate at all. Jackson averages 6 fouls per 40. That's why he didn't play more minutes.



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I feel like I'm talking in circles. I know you can extrapolate any counting stat into 40 minute increments, including fouls.

Per 40 doesn't take into all the major adjustments that would happen when you have a significant increase in minutes. It doesn't take into account the fatigue JJJ would go through. It's doesn't take into account the adjustment JJJ would have to make just to stay out of foul trouble, including a decreased aggressiveness on defense. And it doesn't take into account the increase defensive attention one would get due to the increased workload.

All things that Ayton, or any star with significantly more minutes has to deal with. That 'rate' you like to think happens gets blown up the moment you try to expand it. Because none of that has been produced in reality.

[dumbell78]

One thing I will say about Trae Young and how we are talking about his defensive liabilities. I have made it clear I am not a huge fan and wouldn't take him at 7. That said, I find it almost hypocritical to talk about the kids defense out of college when we are about to sign Lavine to a multi year deal, who we KNOW for sure is an awful defender.

I mean hypothetically speaking if Youngs elite skills translate, are we overstating the liability? Is it not conceivable to have Young and Dunn out there in a small ball type line up? Dunn can guard most SG this day and age. Look at what Boston is doing with Smart, I realize its a reach but again the point can be made.

Again I'm not a big Young fan but we cant say he sucks on D, don't draft him. Then give Lavine 4 yr/20+mil and think somehow that is a great idea. There has to be some consistency in all this. Way I see it both backcourts will have their defensive woes. Which version gets you closer to net positive type play, maybe even scratching that elite status? Who says Dunn pans out at the PG spot?

I also don't think Trae's size is a concern for me. Standing next to Sexton he looked a legit 6'2" and I know the kid will gain some weight. I'm not even gonna talk abut that.

If Pax thinks Young is BPA at 7, go get him.

[CoreyVillains]

I've heard JJJ described as very raw and someone that might take a year or two to develop. Can someone who knows explain to me why JJJ is seen as a higher tier prospect than Wendell Carter?

-longer
-more athletic
-better shooter
-better ball handler
-great defensive player


What else do you need????

The ability to play big minutes would be nice. I would pick JJJ above Carter, but it’s pretty easy to picture Carter being a better pro. JJJ has amazing physical tools but his defensive IQ isn’t nearly as high as it’s made out to be. His physical tools allow him to cover for mistakes but they also make him believe he can block everything. He’s young so I’m sure he’ll get better at positioning himself into the right spots but his foul trouble is a big and very real issue. He isn’t a good rebounder. His motor is the biggest question mark for me. He just flat out disappears sometimes. There were multiple times I watched him and didn’t realize he was on the court. I think he’s a major project. He flashes impressive abilities in small samples but they aren’t at the point where he can use them all the time yet. The situation he gets drafted into is going to matter a lot for what type of player he is allowed to grow into. I wouldn’t exactly be high on his best case development if he ended up in Orlando for example.

[nomorezorro]

maybe this isn't true across the board, but in a few of the MSU games i saw it looked like ncaa officials were just straight up bad at officiating jjj

i wouldn't dismiss it as a concern out of hand but he doesn't really come off as a guy out of control on that end of the court

[GimmeDat]

Was just listening to Cole Zwicker on Fastbreak Breakfast and he sounds high on 'healthy' MPJ. Said he was better than Ayton and Bagley in HS. But medical is a big question mark, obviously (Stepien have MPJ #7). Also questioned his feel for the game, which I had mentioned previously.

He wouldn't rule out Orlando taking Bamba at 6 if it comes down to that as well, though obviously Young is the guy he and everyone expects them to take.

Spoke about Bulls, said Young would make our team disastrous defensively, and this is coming from a guy that has Young like 2 or 3 on his board. MPJ a soft landing zone here at 7, but again, he doesn't like the defensive fit alongside Lauri. Spoke highly of Carter and how he'd fit in to Hoiberg's system.

[Chi town]

-longer
-more athletic
-better shooter
-better ball handler
-great defensive player


What else do you need????

I agree that JJJ is the better prospect, but I don't think the difference is that massive.

JJJ shot .396 from three. Carter shot .413.

Wendell is easily the better rebounder. Wendell is the better passer. Wendell better finisher at the rim.

The main difference comes from athleticism and defense, not that Carter is a liability in either of those areas. Consider also that Wendell limited to his game to play 2nd fiddle to Bagley and there may be some skills that we didn't see from him. He showed some extra versatility at the HS level, for sure.

I'll take JJJ but playing devils advocate for Wendell a bit because he's underrated.

Thing is, JJJ looks like he could be KG level great. It wouldn't even be a question for me. Triple J is the one.

YEP. KG is the best case comp I see too.

[GimmeDat]

Clippers supposedly want to trade up to get MPJ.

If MPJ was the guy on the board at 7, would you trade the pick for 12/13? Likely targets in that range being Sexton/SGA/R.Williams/Walker Jr./Smith.

Personally, I wouldn't, but if at least one of Miles/Mikal/Carter/Trae falls to 12 I'd strongly consider it.

[kulaz3000]

Clippers supposedly want to trade up to get MPJ.

If MPJ was the guy on the board at 7, would you trade the pick for 12/13? Likely targets in that range being Sexton/SGA/R.Williams/Walker Jr./Smith.

Personally, I wouldn't, but if at least one of Miles/Mikal/Carter/Trae falls to 12 I'd strongly consider it.

I've put it out there don't I'm not a huge fan of MPJ, BUT if Jerry West is looking to trade up to draft MPJ, then I'm looking long and hard at evaluating MPJ again.

[CoreyVillains]

Clippers supposedly want to trade up to get MPJ.

If MPJ was the guy on the board at 7, would you trade the pick for 12/13? Likely targets in that range being Sexton/SGA/R.Williams/Walker Jr./Smith.

Personally, I wouldn't, but if at least one of Miles/Mikal/Carter/Trae falls to 12 I'd strongly consider it.

Miles will probably be there at that range. That’s not a drop for him, if anything it’s too high imo, but I’m low on him as an impactful NBA player. To answer your question, no I wouldn’t. The chances of Mikal, Trae, or Carter being there are too slim to risk having to select significantly worse prospects.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Clippers supposedly want to trade up to get MPJ.

If MPJ was the guy on the board at 7, would you trade the pick for 12/13? Likely targets in that range being Sexton/SGA/R.Williams/Walker Jr./Smith.

Personally, I wouldn't, but if at least one of Miles/Mikal/Carter/Trae falls to 12 I'd strongly consider it.

I would not do that deal. Have to try and get elite talent, not a sum of good pieces.

Throw in a 2019 pick swap option, and I do think about it.

[nomorezorro]

Clippers supposedly want to trade up to get MPJ.

If MPJ was the guy on the board at 7, would you trade the pick for 12/13? Likely targets in that range being Sexton/SGA/R.Williams/Walker Jr./Smith.

Personally, I wouldn't, but if at least one of Miles/Mikal/Carter/Trae falls to 12 I'd strongly consider it.

if we don't like MPJ for ourselves, i like it in theory. but i dunno, there's not a super compelling combo of players i can envision us taking at 12/13

it would be interesting if we could move down and then trade up to 9 or 10 to nab bridges/carter, if that's going to be our target at 7 anyway.

[Chi town]

TRADE UP!!!

All that matters is we get Luka or JJJ. Add one of them to Lauri and we have something to talk about.