The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[bigfoot]

This is the chart we all need to be paying attention to with this discussion. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

IMO, the SSOL Suns could have developed into one of the all-time great teams, had Amare not gotten injured. That's because Amare's percentages - at that volume - was crazy high. That 04-05 team started the transition to where the league is today.

A big part of the change in styles is due to rule changes, sure, but the biggest part has been skill development, pure and simple. Take the three, focus on the three, get great at it. NBA players are simply much, much better shooters than they were in eras past.

The league that SSOL transitioned away from, however, is important to remember. The reason the league had transitioned from the run-n-gun eighties to such a post-up oriented game in the nineties was because of the extraordinary talent of the bigs of that generation - Olajuwon, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Robinson, and finally, Shaq. When all the rest of those guys were gone, we were left with Shaq, and a league desperate to stop him. Otherwise, the game that was sort of dead. A generation of "superstars" like Carter, McGrady, Iverson, Francis and Marbury never really learned to be efficient and productive offensive players. Iso ball up top with bigs defending down low. Teams were designed to contend with a type of player that no longer existed - except for Shaq.

I know post ups in general are not good, but a Shaq post up was unstoppable, and still would be today... Your biggest big is Zaza Pachulia? Nene? Uh, pleeeease. It wasn't until Shaq and Kobe split (and Shaq precipitously declined) that the modern offense began to take shape here in Phoenix and now in Golden State and Houston.

THE THING YOU'RE MISSING is that the post up is not how the big is most often used in the modern offense - and that would be true even if the offense were designed around him. Of any team's fans, ours should know this best, because we all watched Amare. The ideal modern big rolls to the rim, catches everything, finishes everything, over and against anyone. A great one will turn a 12 footer into a layup with a dribble, hit his free throws and step out for the open shot when offered. He'll gobble up boards and keep defenses honest with his tremendous gravity. Everything we've seen from Ayton suggests he'll be able to do all those things.

By now we've all seen teams stacked with shooters better than any known to the NBA of the past. Now let's see what happens when you put one of those great wrecking balls of yesteryear in the middle of it. SHAZAM!!!

Ayton's home in the US is Arizona. He wants to be here. We have the #1 pick. The 50/50 curse has been lifted. The modern NBA offense was birthed here. Now, like a Phoenix, the modern offense must here be reborn.

The reason why it failed was Amare, while more than capable offensively, could not play defense. He was a liability. He was not the defensive anchor we needed. Nor could Amare hit the three point shot. Amare next to a better defender, rebounder, and three point specialist in Channing Frye almost got us to the finals. Everyone alway wondered why Frye had the biggest plus/minus on the floor when it looked like he did so little. Offensive gravity and better than average defense next to Amare.

The one worry for Ayton, and everyone points it out, is his defensive motor. The second worry is can he develop three point range. Doncic on the other hand has a career.601 true shooting percentage which would put him in the top 25. Therefore by your argument, Doncic would fit right it. Just get a Channing Frye-like guy (dime a dozen in the NBA) to put in with Booker and Doncic and zing-go-the-strings. Hell Kevin Love would do. Even Chriss could surprise us next year as he seems to have the instincts for help defense if he can just stay in shape.

It failed because of Tim Duncan...inside scorer! We had to double him because we were too small and couldn’t guard him in the post and that opened Bowen in the corner. How can we as Suns’ fans forget that.

We beat Dallas in 05 playoffs and Amare DOMINATED!

Off the top of my head 37 and 12!

Hmmm ... and what about Joe Johnson's face being mashed into the ground. That hurt us against the Spurs. He was as important as Amare. Then the next year when Amare is injured (played 3 games) we are dominating again with Boris Diaw until Kurt Thomas goes down with an injury. Didn't have that massive scorer but competed with Nash, Marion, Diaw, Thomas, Bell, and Barbosa. Injuries have screwed the Suns so many times.

[Don7]

Random Luka Doncic gifs , because why not?


fakes/up and under

Spoiler:

crossovers

Spoiler:

circus shots

Spoiler:

postups

Spoiler:

Did not include passing,stepbacks and coast to coast because those are well known..

[JMac1]

The reason why it failed was Amare, while more than capable offensively, could not play defense. He was a liability. He was not the defensive anchor we needed. Nor could Amare hit the three point shot. Amare next to a better defender, rebounder, and three point specialist in Channing Frye almost got us to the finals. Everyone alway wondered why Frye had the biggest plus/minus on the floor when it looked like he did so little. Offensive gravity and better than average defense next to Amare.

The one worry for Ayton, and everyone points it out, is his defensive motor. The second worry is can he develop three point range. Doncic on the other hand has a career.601 true shooting percentage which would put him in the top 25. Therefore by your argument, Doncic would fit right it. Just get a Channing Frye-like guy (dime a dozen in the NBA) to put in with Booker and Doncic and zing-go-the-strings. Hell Kevin Love would do. Even Chriss could surprise us next year as he seems to have the instincts for help defense if he can just stay in shape.

It failed because of Tim Duncan...inside scorer! We had to double him because we were too small and couldn’t guard him in the post and that opened Bowen in the corner. How can we as Suns’ fans forget that.

We beat Dallas in 05 playoffs and Amare DOMINATED!

Off the top of my head 37 and 12!

Hmmm ... and what about Joe Johnson's face being mashed into the ground. That hurt us against the Spurs. He was as important as Amare. Then the next year when Amare is injured (played 3 games) we are dominating again with Boris Diaw until Kurt Thomas goes down with an injury. Didn't have that massive scorer but competed with Nash, Marion, Diaw, Thomas, Bell, and Barbosa. Injuries have screwed the Suns so many times.

Come on man. Amare dominated Dallas and we won, the next year without him we lost. Raja did a better job than JJ the next year shooting and playing defense (ALL NBA DEFENDER) and didn't stop the ball as much on O. Tim was the reason we got Kurt.

[AtheJ415]

Why can't people just admit that Doncic isn't that good of a shooter right now lol? I'm as big of a Doncic fan as anyone, but 33% on his career is not a good 3PT% for someone who will be a primary shot creator, and 31% when he was the primary shot creator is equally bad. You can say he took tough shots late in the clock and at the end of quarters, but he's going to be doing the in the NBA too. Is the expectation really for his 3PT% to jump almost 10% when the line moves back and the defense becomes more athletic? He definitely has potential to improve, but it's not like it's going to get easier.

I know Dragic very well and I know how untalented shooter he’s. He was shooting 25% in Euroleague, being 3 years older than Doncic. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=THB#!careerstats

And he’s 37% shooter in Nba. And he had 2 seasons over 40%. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dragigo01.html

If Dragic could do it, Doncic can too.

Or Joe Ingles, Euroleague 35%, 24 years old Ingles was shooting 23%. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats

Nba 42%, this year 44%. Shooting is repetition, % normally going up.

Doncic’s shots are almost all unassisted and he’s main target of every team and he’s barely 19 years old. I don’t buy fairytales that D. in regular season on low bottom teams is always that good. In which period of the season had JJ the best numbers? In Europe every game is like playoffs, nobody is tanking and teams are being prepared for best players of other teams. Why do you think Young’s 3 points shooting sunk in second part of the season? Because D. On him was incredible. He will never face that kind of D. in regular season playing for botton end Nba team. The same goes for Doncic.

This entire discussion is incredibly silly. First, both players are capable shooters. The idea that we "don't know" if they can improve their 3 point shooting is crazy, or that we don't know if Ayton could even hit NBA 3s later on in his career, again crazy. People improve their 3 point shots dramatically all of the time. The key is whether they have a good release, are coordinated/balanced athletes, and if they are willing to put in the work. For some it may take longer than others, and for some it occurs quickly, but if they put in the work and have the release and coordination it eventually occurs. Tatum was an inefficient volume scorer in college who came into the NBA in year 1 after working his entire offseason with his shooting coach and suddenly he's an elite NBA shooter. Thus, anybody on here actually assuming Ayton or Doncic's shooting will not improve to at least an average NBA level or, as I read by some above, actually assuming they will hit at a lower clip in the NBA as somebody said with Ayton's mid-range, is just sillyness.

The same applies for defense. Guys like Ben Simmons who were lazy/unaware but had the raw tools have ended up pretty damn good NBA defenders.

[bigfoot]

This right here explains the complete bias against Doncic. Rebounding and post skill only in Ayton not Doncic ... Ball handling and passing only in Doncic, not Ayton. Doncic is much better at post skills and his rebounding is not that bad. Not even fair to compare Ayton to Donic in passing and dribbling. Most of these mocks rely too much on athleticism and potential not actual skills.

Ayton ranking on NBA Draft


Doncic ranking on NBA Draft


Doncic and Booker had the same complaints/scores for athleticism, strength, and quickness. If people don't see bulging muscles then the player is not athletic and is slow and weak.

[bhawk]

Not sure how this debate is even close. I guess it is because Doncic is good, but Ayton is... again:

GenerAYTONial

In the drafts since 2010, an argument could be made that Ayton would have gone #1 in ALL of them... with the exception of, maybe, the Anthony Davis draft. Can we say the same about Doncic?

Who goes first 2 years ago - Simmons or Doncic or Ayton?

Last year - Fultz, Ball, Tatum or Doncic or Ayton?

The athletic, agile, mobile, 7.1, 250lb, 9.3 standing reach, inside-out (his words) with a jump-shot player who tore up the NCAA wins every single time. AND he is local! AND he wants to play for the Suns for like (maybe) his entire career! AND our current players seem to want to play with him!

Those who argue Ayton is SOFT and is just a Anthony Davis jump-shooter. Really? Have you watched him play?

#1: Davis is really good last time I checked and we would be lucky if he develops like Davis.
#2: Direct quotes from Ayton is that he wants to be an INSIDE-OUT player. The dude prides himself on rebounding, put-backs and his ferocious dunking game.

We get to watch a player who is compared to Amare, Kemp, Robinson, A. Davis, who has a Durant-eske jump shot. Pinch me now, because this must be a dream.

[BVPN]

Not sure how this debate is even close. I guess it is because Doncic is good, but Ayton is... again:

GenerAYTONial

In the drafts since 2010, an argument could be made that Ayton would have gone #1 in ALL of them... with the exception of, maybe, the Anthony Davis draft. Can we say the same about Doncic?

Who goes first 2 years ago - Simmons or Doncic or Ayton?

Last year - Fultz, Ball, Tatum or Doncic or Ayton?

The athletic, agile, mobile, 7.1, 250lb, 9.3 standing reach, inside-out (his words) with a jump-shot player who tore up the NCAA wins every single time. AND he is local! AND he wants to play for the Suns for like (maybe) his entire career! AND our current players seem to want to play with him!

Those who argue Ayton is SOFT and is just a Anthony Davis jump-shooter. Really? Have you watched him play?

#1: Davis is really good last time I checked and we would be lucky if he develops like Davis.
#2: Direct quotes from Ayton is that he wants to be an INSIDE-OUT player. The dude prides himself on rebounding, put-backs and his ferocious dunking game.

We get to watch a player who is compared to Amare, Kemp, Robinson, A. Davis, who has a Durant-eske jump shot. Pinch me now, because this must be a dream.

Generational? He may not even be the best big man in this class...

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/04/19/offensive-upside-deandre-ayton-vs-marvin-bagley/

[JMac1]

I don't understand the logic of people coming from the US. In europe first what coaches teach us are the basics of playing team basketball then it comes down to tactics, conditioning etc....
And when i watch, read and listen to what americans are saying it's all about the damn athleticism. How many times you had an amazing athlete in your club or you even drafted one and later the whole experiment failed because he had no clue what to do on the basketball court. I know from experience when americans came to our club, jumping and dunking like they had springs in their legs but completley failed when it came down to team basketball.

But the thing is, it is hard to teach BBIQ if you don't have the basics. If all you know is how to shoot and dunk the ball, well that can only bring you so far... Athleticism, conditioning, better shooting % those are the things that CAN absolutley be improved with more and more training.
And i also hear and read all the time "he is 6'8 and 230" slow, no speed, no quickness etc. I mean go and watch the video where he blows by Oladipo like he was not even there and he was only 17yo. A 19yo with that kind of body will certainly develop in 2years, 3 years or 4 years into much better shape than he is now. Look at Lebron, similar height and weight. When Lebron came into the league he was athletic thats true but he was also really skinny. And now his physique looks like a bulldog plus he is super fast with amazing vertical leap.

People also love comparing Doncic to Harden... similar style of play. Thats kinda great comparison but then they quickly point out his low 3pt % and no defense. First of all Harden, who is most likely to be MVP this year, we all know plays incredibly bad defense and also his shooting % for playoffs are 41% 2pts and 33% 3pts. And why is that? Because obviously opposition prepares for him and try to lock him down. Same happened with Doncic in EU playoffs. But he still managed to have enough BRAIN POWER to will his team to win and get MVP for final4 and regular season..

So my point is everything that is said about shooting %, lack of athleticism, not enough muscles etc... those are the easiest things to fix specially with NBA trainers. But lack of BBIQ and drive to win games is something you can not teach.

I hope Ayton gets drafted 1st and Doncic falls all the way back to 10th place so in 2 or 3 years all those teams can kick themselves in the buts for passing on him. Even though i think Ayton is an amazing athlete and a good bball player, he has a long way to go in terms of learning how to carry a pro team. On the other hand Doncic needs to hit the gym which he also said many time he will after the season.

I hope this is a serious question, because I am going to answer it as if it is.

I don't understand the logic of people coming from the US. In europe first what coaches teach us are the basics of playing team basketball then it comes down to tactics, conditioning etc....

No argument there when all else is equal. However, if I am an inferior athlete, all the conditioning and tatics in the world isnt going to allow me to stay in front of Westbrook if I am slow footed and immobile. Agreed?

How many times you had an amazing athlete in your club or you even drafted one and later the whole experiment failed because he had no clue what to do on the basketball court.

Agreed. An athlete that isn't trained in a particular sport is just an athlete. You have no idea if he has the ability to play that sport until he is coached up.

I know from experience when americans came to our club, jumping and dunking like they had springs in their legs but completley failed when it came down to team basketball.

How does a non basketball player who can run and jump compare to a basketball player who can run and jump?. Obviously that guy wasn't a basketball player. Thus, it has no barring on comparison of an athletic basketball player versus a non athletic basketball player.

But the thing is, it is hard to teach BBIQ if you don't have the basics. If all you know is how to shoot and dunk the ball, well that can only bring you so far... Athleticism, conditioning, better shooting % those are the things that CAN absolutley be improved with more and more training.

That goes both ways. If you have BBIQ like the older player, but can't get there, then?!? Its uesless, that's why the smart old guys retire. You just said you can get better at shooting and earlier you said the importance of coaching. You don't become an athlete with training. You are born an athlete. You can improve a 22 inch vert to 28 inches, congrats! But you are born with a 40 inch vert that can improve to 46 inches

Doncic in EU playoffs. But he still managed to have enough BRAIN POWER to will his team to win and get MVP for final4 and regular season.

He has been given all the credit in the world on this thread for his BBIQ and Brain Power and Heart and Grit and overall calm presence. We know that exists. No news there.

So my point is everything that is said about shooting %, lack of athleticism, not enough muscles etc... those are the easiest things to fix specially with NBA trainers. But lack of BBIQ and drive to win games is something you can not teach.

Man. If You can teach a non athlete to become an athlete, you will become a multi-BILLIONAIRE. I would love for you teach Donicic enough athleticism to be on the level of Westbrook or James or AI or VC or Kobe or DJ or Mitchell. True, you cannot teach advanced IQ, but learning is something that is well...learned, taught. You are not born knowing 2 and 2 is equal to 4. Some people get it better than others and can apply their knowledge in advance to the coaching, some need to be taught ever single thing, which is a problem because they have to fail before you can teach them what they did wrong. Smart guys can take their prior knowledge and figure that out during or before failure occurs.

And i also hear and read all the time "he is 6'8 and 230" slow, no speed, no quickness etc. I mean go and watch the video where he blows by Oladipo like he was not even there and he was only 17yo. A 19yo with that kind of body will certainly develop in 2years, 3 years or 4 years into much better shape than he is now. Look at Lebron, similar height and weight. When Lebron came into the league he was athletic thats true but he was also really skinny. And now his physique looks like a bulldog plus he is super fast with amazing vertical leap.

So Oladipo fell asleep at the wheel. Doncic isn't blowing by any engaged NBA wing unless he fooled them with his herky jerky dribble, which is okay, but not consistent enough to satisfy his lack of athleticism, quicks, explosion, and speed IMO. Again, being skinny and not develop doesn't mean you are absent of athleticism. Lebron came into the league as an amazing athlete. They all get bigger and better, but they start with a foundation that Doncic doesn't have.

If Doncic was a superior athlete. He'd be one of the best prospects ever, but he isn't and he will be limited by his lack of athleticism.

In short. You can learn cerebral things that are necessary to advance in basketball, but you don't learn athleticism. If Ayton was all athlete, then he'd go 15th like Giannis or 27th like Gobert, but he isn't just all athletic potential.

I hope I cleared that up for you as an American coach and former athlete.

[JMac1]

Not sure how this debate is even close. I guess it is because Doncic is good, but Ayton is... again:

GenerAYTONial

In the drafts since 2010, an argument could be made that Ayton would have gone #1 in ALL of them... with the exception of, maybe, the Anthony Davis draft. Can we say the same about Doncic?

Who goes first 2 years ago - Simmons or Doncic or Ayton?

Last year - Fultz, Ball, Tatum or Doncic or Ayton?

The athletic, agile, mobile, 7.1, 250lb, 9.3 standing reach, inside-out (his words) with a jump-shot player who tore up the NCAA wins every single time. AND he is local! AND he wants to play for the Suns for like (maybe) his entire career! AND our current players seem to want to play with him!

Those who argue Ayton is SOFT and is just a Anthony Davis jump-shooter. Really? Have you watched him play?

#1: Davis is really good last time I checked and we would be lucky if he develops like Davis.
#2: Direct quotes from Ayton is that he wants to be an INSIDE-OUT player. The dude prides himself on rebounding, put-backs and his ferocious dunking game.

We get to watch a player who is compared to Amare, Kemp, Robinson, A. Davis, who has a Durant-eske jump shot. Pinch me now, because this must be a dream.

You got damn straight Hawk! You just fired me up!!!

[Qwigglez]

We've reached the point (been here a while) where everything any draft pick does is heavily scrutinized. Ayton will come with a lot of question marks just like any other draft picks. I don't think he's gotten the physique he has by not being an extremely hard worker. I don't question his motor at all. Ayton only has SOFT hands.

[bhawk]

Not sure how this debate is even close. I guess it is because Doncic is good, but Ayton is... again:

GenerAYTONial

In the drafts since 2010, an argument could be made that Ayton would have gone #1 in ALL of them... with the exception of, maybe, the Anthony Davis draft. Can we say the same about Doncic?

Who goes first 2 years ago - Simmons or Doncic or Ayton?

Last year - Fultz, Ball, Tatum or Doncic or Ayton?

The athletic, agile, mobile, 7.1, 250lb, 9.3 standing reach, inside-out (his words) with a jump-shot player who tore up the NCAA wins every single time. AND he is local! AND he wants to play for the Suns for like (maybe) his entire career! AND our current players seem to want to play with him!

Those who argue Ayton is SOFT and is just a Anthony Davis jump-shooter. Really? Have you watched him play?

#1: Davis is really good last time I checked and we would be lucky if he develops like Davis.
#2: Direct quotes from Ayton is that he wants to be an INSIDE-OUT player. The dude prides himself on rebounding, put-backs and his ferocious dunking game.

We get to watch a player who is compared to Amare, Kemp, Robinson, A. Davis, who has a Durant-eske jump shot. Pinch me now, because this must be a dream.

Generational? He may not even be the best big man in this class...

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/04/19/offensive-upside-deandre-ayton-vs-marvin-bagley/

Great point, I think Bagley will be REALLY good too. Like REALLY, REALLY good. Bagley's second jump is Shawn Marion-eske. Love him and if Ayton wasn't in this draft, the Doncic debate would be just as strong - Bagley vs. Doncic.

I think it shows how lucky we are to have the 1st pick in such a deep, deep draft like this 2018. I really want 2 picks in the top ten. Give me Ayton and Trae Young and call it a championship!

The only knock on Bagley that I noticed, is his poor shooting. A fairly strong leading indicator of NBA shooting is a players FT% and Bagley is not good from the FT line. I fear that he may never develop a reliable jump shot.

Both players pass the eye test and had GREAT college careers. But Ayton wins vs. Bagley based on his size, athleticism, position and his phenomenal jump shot and ability to score from both the inside and outside.

Many, many, many smarter minds than mine have Ayton #1 over Doncic and Bagley. I think it is beacuse Ayton has the higher ceiling and more potential. All players will be great... but sadly we can only have one.

[ATTL]

When do the workouts start?

[Don7]

Regarding Luka Doncic shooting ;

Doncic finished Euroleague season 44% longer mid range, 35.3% non heave 3s on Majority UA.
TS% is 63% on non heaves...

http://overbasket.com/rsplayers.php?tab=9&year=2017&pcode=005929&cmp=EL

Read on Twitter

There is statistically and video proof that he´s way better shooter than percentage tell you..

You may wory about some things translating but not shooting.He´s numbers when you factor the high volume and that most of them are from the dribbler,unassisted is pretty damn good for 18/19 year old.

[Fo-Real]

Here’s the thing. You know how to stop 3pt shooting? Play with effort. Rotate and don’t be lazy. That’s what Houston did last night, old school physical. What happens to Doncic if you put a high quality defender in front of him and he can herk and jerk all he wants but not create separation? Add to that his defense is probably par for the course...

Doncic and Ayton have the same weaknesses but I’ve seen Ayton just dominate. Show me a game where Doncic just dominated. You know where they had to play D on him like Trae Young.

I want to see more cross over blow bys.

Doncic could combat that by having an effective big on the floor to play two man game with. Play off of each other where he either gets his big open shots on pick and rolls or pops, or they have to respect and give space because they fear that and sag and allow him to get EASIER SHOTS or hit open shooters like Bender...... oh, Booker and Ayton can do that.

[JMac1]

Regarding Luka Doncic shooting ;

Doncic finished Euroleague season 44% longer mid range, 35.3% non heave 3s on Majority UA.
TS% is 63% on non heaves...

http://overbasket.com/rsplayers.php?tab=9&year=2017&pcode=005929&cmp=EL

Read on Twitter

There is statistically and video proof that he´s way better shooter than percentage tell you..

You may wory about some things translating but not shooting.He´s numbers when you factor the high volume and that most of them are from the dribbler,unassisted is pretty damn good for 18/19 year old.

I have never been concerned about his shooting. Ever! I don’t know why people are. His shot looks good. 81 percent free throw shooter.

[Archx]

If Doncic was a superior athlete. He'd be one of the best prospects ever, but he isn't and he will be limited by his lack of athleticism.

In short. You can learn cerebral things that are necessary to advance in basketball, but you don't learn athleticism. If Ayton was all athlete, then he'd go 15th like Giannis or 27th like Gobert, but he isn't just all athletic potential.

I hope I cleared that up for you as an American coach and former athlete.

I did read your whole post and we basically agree on 99% of what was said. But i singled out your last statement because i have a feeling you still don't believe that a person can improve when it comes to athleticism.
When i was 17-18yo i couldn't even touch the rim. I started working out like a mad man for the next few years and then i could easily dunk and run faster plus i was way more agile. And i don't know why people think Doncic can't improve aswell. He can build up his muscles just as well as gain quickness if he works in that area. He is not your average athlete or someone who was born without any athletic abilities. The way i see it, Ayton was busy building up his body while Doncic was doing other things.

[Fo-Real]

There is a slight chance that if we don't draft Doncic that we could trade the farm up to get him on the slide at 4 or after depending on who takes who. There is no chance in hell that the same would happen to Ayton, he wont slide at all, FACT!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not sure how this debate is even close. I guess it is because Doncic is good, but Ayton is... again:

GenerAYTONial

In the drafts since 2010, an argument could be made that Ayton would have gone #1 in ALL of them... with the exception of, maybe, the Anthony Davis draft. Can we say the same about Doncic?

Who goes first 2 years ago - Simmons or Doncic or Ayton?

Last year - Fultz, Ball, Tatum or Doncic or Ayton?

The athletic, agile, mobile, 7.1, 250lb, 9.3 standing reach, inside-out (his words) with a jump-shot player who tore up the NCAA wins every single time. AND he is local! AND he wants to play for the Suns for like (maybe) his entire career! AND our current players seem to want to play with him!

Those who argue Ayton is SOFT and is just a Anthony Davis jump-shooter. Really? Have you watched him play?

#1: Davis is really good last time I checked and we would be lucky if he develops like Davis.
#2: Direct quotes from Ayton is that he wants to be an INSIDE-OUT player. The dude prides himself on rebounding, put-backs and his ferocious dunking game.

We get to watch a player who is compared to Amare, Kemp, Robinson, A. Davis, who has a Durant-eske jump shot. Pinch me now, because this must be a dream.

Generational? He may not even be the best big man in this class...

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/04/19/offensive-upside-deandre-ayton-vs-marvin-bagley/

Great point, I think Bagley will be REALLY good too. Like REALLY, REALLY good. Bagley's second jump is Shawn Marion-eske. Love him and if Ayton wasn't in this draft, the Doncic debate would be just as strong - Bagley vs. Doncic.

I think it shows how lucky we are to have the 1st pick in such a deep, deep draft like this 2018. I really want 2 picks in the top ten. Give me Ayton and Trae Young and call it a championship!

The only knock on Bagley that I noticed, is his poor shooting. A fairly strong leading indicator of NBA shooting is a players FT% and Bagley is not good from the FT line. I fear that he may never develop a reliable jump shot.

Both players pass the eye test and had GREAT college careers. But Ayton wins vs. Bagley based on his size, athleticism, position and his phenomenal jump shot and ability to score from both the inside and outside.

Many, many, many smarter minds than mine have Ayton #1 over Doncic and Bagley. I think it is beacuse Ayton has the higher ceiling and more potential. All players will be great... but sadly we can only have one.

I really respect the Stepien's coverage but I have to disagree with them on Ayton. I've been on the Doncic train for months and I really like bigs like Carter and JJJ and kind of like Bagley but I went back and watched more Ayton and to me it's no question that Ayton is the best big man prospect in this draft. The more I watch Ayton the more I like him and while I still prefer Doncic it's close and I'll be very happy with either guy.

[bigfoot]

Doncic ... it's happening !!!!

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-phoenix-suns-are-not-doing-a-great-job-of-disguising-their-plans-for-the-no-1-nba-draft-pick

[jcsunsfan]

Shooting can be improved. Motors can't.

And Doncic’s got a good base rate % and fundamental to improve on.

That I feel that there’s a better probability that Doncic turns into a really great shooter than for Ayton to be good defensive player

Problem with that statement is Ayton has elite defensive tools and his issues could have been motivational or schematic..... Just asking him to focus and be a little more aggressive can change that, with time in the film room.

Put it like this. How many people can stop Ayton on offense and how many could stop Doncic? And how many players <cough Mike James> could Doncic stop and how many can Ayton stop on defense?

There your answer.

Excellent point.


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