2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

[TheSuzerain]

I think Mikal Bridges fits the mold of complementary player in the modern game a la Trevor Ariza. He's a 3/D wing.

You want guys like Mikal on your team. But do you need to use a #7 pick to get them? I would prefer not to.

This is how I feel too. We don't yet have anything to be complementary to.

I like Mikal, but not at #7. He is #9 on my board.

If we theoretically trade down for the Clippers two picks, I'd gladly snag Mikal Bridges with one of those.

[MrSparkle]

Can I just say that I’m not a fan of Davis nor Cousins’ overall impact? I think they’re both supremely talented, stat-pumping, star big men, but the reality is they are stoppable by conventional schemes and one-on-one coverage.

Limit them out the paint. Make them shoot. /Game-plan.

They’re good shooters and great dribblers by center standards, but they don’t make you pay like Dray, prime Dirk/Bosh/Pau or even Love and Horford. All these guys are/were killers from the range if open, while Davis/Cousins have the range but frankly I’ll give them that shot. There’s no way they’re burying long-range shots at the same volume and percentage. So you’re still better off having Rondo shoot a 3P or make plays.

So to me, there’s a big difference between a big man who can make 3Ps as well as any guard in the league. Lauri. IMO Carter kinda looks like that guy.

Davis is an amazing talent but he lacks virtuosic foot-work. He puts himself at injury risk by over-compensating with athleticism. That to me is his biggest issue.

[TheSuzerain]

Can I just say that I’m not a fan of Davis nor Cousins’ overall impact? I think they’re both supremely talented, stat-pumping, star big men, but the reality is they are stoppable by conventional schemes and one-on-one coverage.

Limit them out the paint. Make them shoot. /Game-plan.

They’re good shooters by center standards, but they don’t make you pay like Dray, prime Dirk/Bosh/Pau or even Love and Horford. All these guys are/were killers from the range if open, while Davis/Cousins have the range but frankly I’ll give them that shot. There’s no way they’re burying long-range shots at the same volume and percentage.

So to me, there’s a big difference between a big man who can make 3Ps as well as any guard in the league. Lauri. IMO Carter kinda looks like that guy.

Let's not go nuts on Carter's shooting. He's decent.

Lauri is a couple tiers above any lotto big in this draft when it comes to shooting.

[fleet]

Potential Deal

Chicago Bulls get: No. 2 pick

Sacramento Kings get: No. 7 pick and Kris Dunn

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2777197-teams-that-should-trade-up-for-luka-doncic-in-2018-nba-draft


Yoooo. I'd do this in a heartbeat....

Bill Simmons has me pumped for Luka

Amen. I'm not sure why the Kings do it though. Dunn has been really bad through 2 seasons. Best you can say is he was less bad last season. They probably would want a more complete player in return. And/or the 22nd.

[Poohdini1]

The Bulls organization would never do that. Not only they have been high on Dunn since 2016 draft, they know there is value in the number 7 pick, especially after having been able to draft Lauri at 7 last year. I would not do it either, because I believe Dunn will take major steps forward offensively next season and drafting Porter at 7 is a possibility. When all is said and done, Porter will definitely outmatch Doncic's production.

Agreed. I definitely wouldn’t do it. I rather go into next season with a core of Dunn-Lavine-MPJ-Markkanen than Doncic-Lavine-Markkanen. Plus the defensive backcourt of Doncic/Lavine will have major issues.

That core is vomit worthy. And I like Kris Dunn. I just think Porter and Lavine are too redundant and neither will be good PnR defenders. I've never seen Porter in all the footage I've watched get down low in a stance and move his hips. Never seen him switch effectively on to another player even. His only defensive trait that looks like it might translate well is he has great straight line speed and hops so he gets a lot of chase down blocks. Lavine doesn't recognize what an offense is doing. He's too slow thinking and after four seasons he still hasn't "figured it out" so what makes anyone think it will be different going forward.

I think a team of that core is hopeless. You are counting on a guy coming into his 5th NBA season to learn a basic defensive principle that is mostly "instinct based" in the first place. Also, counting on a draft pick who has never shown that skill to just pick it up after jumping two levels in talent and experience. I would rather go get Luka.

Zach is Jamal Crawford with bounce. He will never become a good defender, most likely not even an average one, and I don't think his offense will get to a consistent level where it offsets or exceeds the points he gives up.

As far as MPJ, I think a taller Jayson Tatum is a legit comp and wouldn't hesitate at all to grab him at 7.

[NDave79]

I dont see any pressing need to jettison Dunn either. He flashed tantalizing upside last season. He just needs to stay healthy

Lock-down defender with tremendous length for a point guard, I love his ability to push the ball in transition and I think he does a terrific job getting into the paint, collapsing the defense, and hitting the open man. He demonstrated last season an ability to pull up and hit jumpers/floaters and a modicum of a 3 point game. If he continues to build upon that AND do a better job of finishing at the rim... he'll be a damn good one.

I agree. I feel like every time Dunn had long enough to start getting in a groove we became a significantly better team, looking like we were going to ruin our tank and then, bam, he'd get injured (which I was sadly sort of thankful for) and our team would seem to fall apart (except for that crazy three game winning stretch late in the year). I was quite encouraged with Dunn during his best stretch of the year considering it was really his first time playing meaningful minutes at PG in the NBA.

[Truebiscuit]

Dunn has been really bad through 2 seasons. Best you can say is he was less bad last season. They probably would want a more complete player in return. And/or the 22nd.

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

[TheSuzerain]

Dunn has been really bad through 2 seasons. Best you can say is he was less bad last season. They probably would want a more complete player in return. And/or the 22nd.

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

By any objective measure, he was bad.

He improved from historically bad to bad. Many are focusing on the improvement, but I personally can't get over the reality that he's presently a bad player.

[Truebiscuit]

Dunn has been really bad through 2 seasons. Best you can say is he was less bad last season. They probably would want a more complete player in return. And/or the 22nd.

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

By any objective measure, he was bad.

So, that is patently false.

Are you familiar with PER(?) -- it's about as objective a measure as you'll find -- Kris Dunn last season was 14.5

By definition, a 15 is considered league average.

[fleet]

Dunn has been really bad through 2 seasons. Best you can say is he was less bad last season. They probably would want a more complete player in return. And/or the 22nd.

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

You like him. Fair enough. That doesn't change his trade value, which is very questionable to those who are trying to be objective in a trade discussion. I dont believe adding him to the #7 in an offer allows the Bulls to move up much if at all. In the scenario presented (#2 overall), the Kings are asking for a better deal than Kris Dunn.

[Truebiscuit]

Dunn has been really bad through 2 seasons. Best you can say is he was less bad last season. They probably would want a more complete player in return. And/or the 22nd.

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

You like him. Fair enough. That doesn't change his trade value, which is very questionable to those who are trying to be objective in a trade discussion. I dont believe adding him to the #7 in an offer allows the Bulls to move up much if at all. In the scenario presented (#2 overall), the Kings are asking for a better deal than Kris Dunn.

I do like him, and one of my favorite things in any sport (especially football/basketball/baseball) is watching young players develop. I believe his arrow is pointed upward, but like everything in life we will see.

[tunit213]

The Bulls organization would never do that. Not only they have been high on Dunn since 2016 draft, they know there is value in the number 7 pick, especially after having been able to draft Lauri at 7 last year. I would not do it either, because I believe Dunn will take major steps forward offensively next season and drafting Porter at 7 is a possibility. When all is said and done, Porter will definitely outmatch Doncic's production.

Agreed. I definitely wouldn’t do it. I rather go into next season with a core of Dunn-Lavine-MPJ-Markkanen than Doncic-Lavine-Markkanen. Plus the defensive backcourt of Doncic/Lavine will have major issues.

That core is vomit worthy. And I like Kris Dunn. I just think Porter and Lavine are too redundant and neither will be good PnR defenders. I've never seen Porter in all the footage I've watched get down low in a stance and move his hips. Never seen him switch effectively on to another player even. His only defensive trait that looks like it might translate well is he has great straight line speed and hops so he gets a lot of chase down blocks. Lavine doesn't recognize what an offense is doing. He's too slow thinking and after four seasons he still hasn't "figured it out" so what makes anyone think it will be different going forward.

I think a team of that core is hopeless. You are counting on a guy coming into his 5th NBA season to learn a basic defensive principle that is mostly "instinct based" in the first place. Also, counting on a draft pick who has never shown that skill to just pick it up after jumping two levels in talent and experience. I would rather go get Luka.

And your acting like a 19 year old rookie can not get better. Smh. Enough of the these kids are finished projects.

[Red8911]

I dont see any pressing need to jettison Dunn either. He flashed tantalizing upside last season. He just needs to stay healthy

Healthy and just needs to get even better in general. Paxson already mentioned he wants him to improve at finishing at the rim and imo has to learn to draw fouls and get to the line more often as well for easy points.

I agree though bulls do obviously like him and don’t want to trade him but it’s also not impossible if they get offered something that interests them. Maybe it bothers them that Dunn isn’t a shooter,so you never know.

[TheSuzerain]

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

By any objective measure, he was bad.

So, that is patently false.

Are you familiar with PER(?) -- it's about as objective a measure as you'll find -- Kris Dunn last season was 14.5

By definition, a 15 is considered league average.

PER should always be contextualized with usage. Dunn's usage was 24.7% which is 10 points higher than his PER. Anything in excess of 5 points higher, and you can reasonably discern that their PER is being inflated by their shooting volume.

Tony Wroten had a PER in the same ballpark as Dunn. No one thought he was anything but bad.

This occurs because the break-even point for efficiency to increase PER with a marginal shot is set really low. If you shoot in excess of like 40% TS%, you will increase your PER with more shots. This does not reflect reality and is a flaw of the metric.

[TheSuzerain]

I'd be absolutely floored if Kris Dunn could advance us one spot to #6 let alone to #2.

We're a couple months removed from Mudiay and Elfrid Payton being moved for scraps.

[Red8911]

Dunn has been really bad through 2 seasons. Best you can say is he was less bad last season. They probably would want a more complete player in return. And/or the 22nd.

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

You like him. Fair enough. That doesn't change his trade value, which is very questionable to those who are trying to be objective in a trade discussion. I dont believe adding him to the #7 in an offer allows the Bulls to move up much if at all. In the scenario presented (#2 overall), the Kings are asking for a better deal than Kris Dunn.

Looks like in this draft the top 9-10 picks have talent so any of these picks can turn out to be a jackpot. Bulls have a good pick @ 7,Don’t see the reason they would trade Dunn to move up unless they are REALLY in love with a particular player. Point is this pick could end up being better than the second pick. After Ayton there’s no clear second best or third best player.

[DuckIII]

You'd think fans of the franchise that won 6 titles with complete garbage at center would think differently.

You mean that team with 2 of the greatest wing players in the history of the sport? Yeah I remember that. Was pretty sweet. Let’s just draft 2 guys like that this year, since it’s the last year we are ever allowed to add players to our roster for the rest of time.

Or, you know, go ahead and try to build a contender around two big men who aren't even as good as Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins.

Because that'll go great.

I mean, I don’t have a big man in my preferences. But I’m sure not going to pass on one just because of the position he plays. Not to mention that, offensively, Lauri doesn’t even play like a big, which weakens an already myopic argument.

[Habs72]

Agreed. I definitely wouldn’t do it. I rather go into next season with a core of Dunn-Lavine-MPJ-Markkanen than Doncic-Lavine-Markkanen. Plus the defensive backcourt of Doncic/Lavine will have major issues.

That core is vomit worthy. And I like Kris Dunn. I just think Porter and Lavine are too redundant and neither will be good PnR defenders. I've never seen Porter in all the footage I've watched get down low in a stance and move his hips. Never seen him switch effectively on to another player even. His only defensive trait that looks like it might translate well is he has great straight line speed and hops so he gets a lot of chase down blocks. Lavine doesn't recognize what an offense is doing. He's too slow thinking and after four seasons he still hasn't "figured it out" so what makes anyone think it will be different going forward.

I think a team of that core is hopeless. You are counting on a guy coming into his 5th NBA season to learn a basic defensive principle that is mostly "instinct based" in the first place. Also, counting on a draft pick who has never shown that skill to just pick it up after jumping two levels in talent and experience. I would rather go get Luka.

And your acting like a 19 year old rookie can not get better. Smh. Enough of the these kids are finished projects.

Tbh Porter atm is a big mystery for all of us how he will turn out. If you think otherwise, i would prolly say youre lying to yourself.

Good thing is though that our front office will see him more in the private workouts, im still quite concerned how healthy/long his career will be.

Im glad im not the front office and taking a swing at him, he can turn out to be anything from dust to bust to stardom.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I'm not as high on JJJ as others, but I do like him because he's a project. It's going to take a couple years for him to really contribute, and the hope is you get your elite wings through the draft next year or the year after, and then when the team is ready to go you have elite wing, elite wing, Lauri, jjj as your core.

[RastaBull]

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

You like him. Fair enough. That doesn't change his trade value, which is very questionable to those who are trying to be objective in a trade discussion. I dont believe adding him to the #7 in an offer allows the Bulls to move up much if at all. In the scenario presented (#2 overall), the Kings are asking for a better deal than Kris Dunn.

Looks like in this draft the top 9-10 picks have talent so any of these picks can turn out to be a jackpot. Bulls have a good pick @ 7,Don’t see the reason they would trade Dunn to move up unless they are REALLY in love with a particular player. Point is this pick could end up being better than the second pick. After Ayton there’s no clear second best or third best player.

Agree. I certainly have my preferences, but at #7 there is no option that I'm going to be devastated by. In fact, with so many different options on the board I've found a lot of reason to be really positive about each possible option that drops or is there at 7.

There is not a bad player or disappointing option. They all have really excitingly upside and COULD be all-stars ... but for each of them it also comes down to our staff and system developing.

My preference is Porter. I've known his family in my hometown, saw him in junior high, saw his sisters in high school. I think his skillset and size and athleticism make him the easiest to develop into that star potential.

If he's gone and / or Doncic drops, he's got automatic skills that don't need to be developed too. Young will blow people's minds for sure (but will need a lot of close development for his impact to lead to winning basketball). Carter has loads of exciting potential, and good baselines across the board, but that also means he needs careful development across the board to be a real stud. Mikal is similar, but again spectacular baselines across the board still excites me. Bamba is (and will be remembered as) the real wildcard of the draft. With the proper development he could be the next great thing in basketball, generational ... but it's the most difficult and careful development needed of everyone (overall offensive game).

I guess I feel really really optimistic about picking at 7

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