The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[jcsunsfan]

The knock is Ayton's defense, not his offense. So, let's look at one of the worst defensive games of the year for Ayton. McCoy's career game for UNLV in December. This is the UNLV highlight video, so its the UofA lowlight video. Here is what I see.

1. Ristic take McCoy and cannot handle him defensively. So they put Ayton on him.
2. Ayton plays McCoy well straight up.
3. UNLV guards seem to have a clear path to the hoop. When Ayton switches, they dump off to McCoy and he scores.
4. When Ayton goes for the block, McCoy grabs the offensive rebound and scores.
5. Ayton has trouble finding his man again when trying to switch back.
6. He has a few lapses where he just looks tired. But then I looked at his minutes. He had more minutes than anyone on both teams (39). That is a lot for a 250 lb big man, especially when he seems to have to cover a lot defensively for his teammates.
7. Arizona's players, in general, are not very good one on one defenders, except Ayton.

Watch on YouTube

[LukasBMW]

If Joel Embiid stays healthy, he will dominate the league.

Alex Len had some MONSTER and I mean MONSTER games against GSW. Hell, we ALMOST beat them a few times. Why? Because we were able to extort their lack of an inside presence.

Granted, GSW has since improved their interior defense and the swarming they now do almost makes it seem like they are playing with 7 defenders.

But still, if Len can put up numbers against GSW, imagine what Ayton can possibly do.

[JMac1]

My main thing: who would have done better in last night's Warriors/Rockets game? Doncic or Ayton? I personally feel like only Doncic would have fit in, but maybe i am dead wrong.

Rockets had a six foot Paul; maybe 6’3 Gordon; two six five guys in tucker and harden and a 6’8 Ariza

Talent beats height

If Luka is the better player based on projections and not Gambo or Twitter polls or they lost the true center in Alcindor - but for today’s nba take Luka.

I am still okay with Ayton. Big guys are hard to guard if he had the mentality to win

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

[BobbieL]

My main thing: who would have done better in last night's Warriors/Rockets game? Doncic or Ayton? I personally feel like only Doncic would have fit in, but maybe i am dead wrong.

Rockets had a six foot Paul; maybe 6’3 Gordon; two six five guys in tucker and harden and a 6’8 Ariza

Talent beats height

If Luka is the better player based on projections and not Gambo or Twitter polls or they lost the true center in Alcindor - but for today’s nba take Luka.

I am still okay with Ayton. Big guys are hard to guard if he had the mentality to win

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

That’s why when I see Ayton I cannot say it’s a bad pick as big guys still cause match up problems - not just big but as you say big talented athletic etc. a big like Ayton is always great because those jumpers do not always fall; other teams get in foul trouble. I don’t want to say the big man is done.

I know it seems like a problem for the Suns but it’s a good problem! I don’t think they can go wrong either way.

[JMac1]

Rockets had a six foot Paul; maybe 6’3 Gordon; two six five guys in tucker and harden and a 6’8 Ariza

Talent beats height

If Luka is the better player based on projections and not Gambo or Twitter polls or they lost the true center in Alcindor - but for today’s nba take Luka.

I am still okay with Ayton. Big guys are hard to guard if he had the mentality to win

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

That’s why when I see Ayton I cannot say it’s a bad pick as big guys still cause match up problems - not just big but as you say big talented athletic etc. a big like Ayton is always great because those jumpers do not always fall; other teams get in foul trouble. I don’t want to say the big man is done.

I know it seems like a problem for the Suns but it’s a good problem! I don’t think they can go wrong either way.

They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

[Mjee]

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

That’s why when I see Ayton I cannot say it’s a bad pick as big guys still cause match up problems - not just big but as you say big talented athletic etc. a big like Ayton is always great because those jumpers do not always fall; other teams get in foul trouble. I don’t want to say the big man is done.

I know it seems like a problem for the Suns but it’s a good problem! I don’t think they can go wrong either way.

They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

Easy - It is wayyyy harder to get a guy like Ayton. Guys with his size, strength, athleticism, and offensive ability rarely come along on the market. Good wings are a dime a dozen. That is one reason why we are drafting Ayton.

[Revived]

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

Ayton doesn’t have a reliable post game (or one at all?) if that’s what you’re referring to here.

And if Ayton played in yesterday’s game, Curry or Harder (whichever opposing team Ayton is on) would’ve dropped 50 pts easily just by pick & rolling and getting Ayton to switch and try and defend them.

[bwgood77]

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

That’s why when I see Ayton I cannot say it’s a bad pick as big guys still cause match up problems - not just big but as you say big talented athletic etc. a big like Ayton is always great because those jumpers do not always fall; other teams get in foul trouble. I don’t want to say the big man is done.

I know it seems like a problem for the Suns but it’s a good problem! I don’t think they can go wrong either way.

They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

Equally hard. There are only one of each. My biggest worry about either is the potential lack of good interior defense from a C. Will he ever be a plus defender? Maybe? You would think with the size and athleticism. Only a couple of people are doubting his ability to dominate on offense and on the boards.

I also think there are more guys with height and talent in the league than Durant, Giannis and AD.

[BobbieL]

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

That’s why when I see Ayton I cannot say it’s a bad pick as big guys still cause match up problems - not just big but as you say big talented athletic etc. a big like Ayton is always great because those jumpers do not always fall; other teams get in foul trouble. I don’t want to say the big man is done.

I know it seems like a problem for the Suns but it’s a good problem! I don’t think they can go wrong either way.

They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

I think it’s harder to get a big than a forward like Doncic

I think a key factor is love of the game. Or passion. The passion to play practice work to get better

Both can get better at various aspects but who is going to do the work to do it. They get that question answered - that’s a big key

[jcsunsfan]

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

That’s why when I see Ayton I cannot say it’s a bad pick as big guys still cause match up problems - not just big but as you say big talented athletic etc. a big like Ayton is always great because those jumpers do not always fall; other teams get in foul trouble. I don’t want to say the big man is done.

I know it seems like a problem for the Suns but it’s a good problem! I don’t think they can go wrong either way.

They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

Take the key players in last nights game. Where were they drafted? How did their teams obtain them?
Chris Paul--4 trade
James Harden--3 trade
Eric Gordon--7 free agency
PJ Tucker--35 free agency
D. Green--35 draft
KD--2 free agency
Curry--7 draft
Thompson--11 draft

Now the best younger big men in the league.

KAT--1 draft
AD--1 draft
Embiid--3 draft
Gobert--27 draft
Jokic--41 draft
Porzingis--4 draft
Drummond--9 draft
Steven Adams--12 draft
Clint Capella--15 draft

If you want an older big man
Horford--FA
Mark Gasol--Trade
DeMarcus Cousins--Trade

[Blonde]

6’8” primary initiators who can shoot off the dribble and spot up are more rare and important than 7’ score first centers.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Saberestar]

My main thing: who would have done better in last night's Warriors/Rockets game? Doncic or Ayton? I personally feel like only Doncic would have fit in, but maybe i am dead wrong.

Rockets had a six foot Paul; maybe 6’3 Gordon; two six five guys in tucker and harden and a 6’8 Ariza

Talent beats height

If Luka is the better player based on projections and not Gambo or Twitter polls or they lost the true center in Alcindor - but for today’s nba take Luka.

I am still okay with Ayton. Big guys are hard to guard if he had the mentality to win

It is all about STARS.

The Rockets have two HOFs and the Warriors have...well....they have problably the best team in the history of the game with four HOFs.

Players like Porzingis, Anteto, Anthony Davis, Towns, Jokic or Embiid can be part of a championship team if they have better players around them.

The last few years all have been about superteams.

A talented big can be part of a winning team for sure.

[JMac1]

Bet both teams would’ve loved to have Ayton last night when they were bricking 3 after 3 late because that’s the only way they could score. When the D tightens up late, those threes aren’t such good shots.

Ayton doesn’t have a reliable post game (or one at all?) if that’s what you’re referring to here.

And if Ayton played in yesterday’s game, Curry or Harder (whichever opposing team Ayton is on) would’ve dropped 50 pts easily just by pick & rolling and getting Ayton to switch and try and defend them.

1. Ayton would have a year under his belt at this time and he has shown several post moves during his college career. Reliable is an objective term.
2. I’m referring to easy basket. Be it alley oop, over powering, turn around hook, 3 footer or whatever....is better than watching bricks being shot over and over again. Replay the last 4 mins of the game.
3. Like it has been mentioned. I’d like to see Curry and Harden get switched on Ayton. It goes both ways.

[Puff]

My main thing: who would have done better in last night's Warriors/Rockets game? Doncic or Ayton? I personally feel like only Doncic would have fit in, but maybe i am dead wrong.

Rockets had a six foot Paul; maybe 6’3 Gordon; two six five guys in tucker and harden and a 6’8 Ariza

Talent beats height

If Luka is the better player based on projections and not Gambo or Twitter polls or they lost the true center in Alcindor - but for today’s nba take Luka.

I am still okay with Ayton. Big guys are hard to guard if he had the mentality to win

Last night was almost like hand to hand combat and that is really what is happening in the new NBA. This is the main reason that Dramond Green is so great. Whether you like him or not he does not give and inch. Neither does TJ Tucker or Chris Paul.


Reportedly that is what Doncic brings in spades. It also seems as though Ayton is a beast but does not act like it. If the decision is close and I think it is. I will go with the best competitor everytime.

[JMac1]

That’s why when I see Ayton I cannot say it’s a bad pick as big guys still cause match up problems - not just big but as you say big talented athletic etc. a big like Ayton is always great because those jumpers do not always fall; other teams get in foul trouble. I don’t want to say the big man is done.

I know it seems like a problem for the Suns but it’s a good problem! I don’t think they can go wrong either way.

They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

Equally hard. There are only one of each. My biggest worry about either is the potential lack of good interior defense from a C. Will he ever be a plus defender? Maybe? You would think with the size and athleticism. Only a couple of people are doubting his ability to dominate on offense and on the boards.

I also think there are more guys with height and talent in the league than Durant, Giannis and AD.

Name them. I can’t counter your point of view with out names. They should pop out if they are common players. I can name tons of wings George Harden Durant Thompson Hayward Tatum Booker Kahwi Porter Kuzman Iggy Melo Butler DeRozan Wiggins Beal Wade Oladipo...

Name the top centers in the league.

[thamadkant]

My main thing: who would have done better in last night's Warriors/Rockets game? Doncic or Ayton? I personally feel like only Doncic would have fit in, but maybe i am dead wrong.

Rockets had a six foot Paul; maybe 6’3 Gordon; two six five guys in tucker and harden and a 6’8 Ariza

Talent beats height

If Luka is the better player based on projections and not Gambo or Twitter polls or they lost the true center in Alcindor - but for today’s nba take Luka.

I am still okay with Ayton. Big guys are hard to guard if he had the mentality to win

It is all about STARS.

The Rockets have two HOFs and the Warriors has...well....they have problably the best team in the history of the game with four HOFs.

Players like Porzingis, Anteto, Anthony Davis, Towns, Jokic or Embiid can be part championship team if they have better players around them.

The last few years all have been about superteams.

A talented big can be part of a winning team for sure.

This.


Big star men today have lesser talent around them.

[Saberestar]

My main thing: who would have done better in last night's Warriors/Rockets game? Doncic or Ayton? I personally feel like only Doncic would have fit in, but maybe i am dead wrong.

Rockets had a six foot Paul; maybe 6’3 Gordon; two six five guys in tucker and harden and a 6’8 Ariza

Talent beats height

If Luka is the better player based on projections and not Gambo or Twitter polls or they lost the true center in Alcindor - but for today’s nba take Luka.

I am still okay with Ayton. Big guys are hard to guard if he had the mentality to win

Last night was almost like hand to hand combat and that is really what is happening in the new NBA. This is the main reason that Dramond Green is so great. Whether you like him or not he does not give and inch. Neither does TJ Tucker or Chris Paul.


Reportedly that is what Doncic brings in spades. It also seems as though Ayton is a beast but does not act like it. If the decision is close and I think it is. I will go with the best competitor everytime.

I hated so much trading PJ Tucker. He can play and he wanted to be on the Suns.

McD traded him for a couple of seconds...nothing. Another bad move IMO.

We could have signed him to a new contract...we are now looking for a player exactly like him on the market. ****.

[saintEscaton]

They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

Equally hard. There are only one of each. My biggest worry about either is the potential lack of good interior defense from a C. Will he ever be a plus defender? Maybe? You would think with the size and athleticism. Only a couple of people are doubting his ability to dominate on offense and on the boards.

I also think there are more guys with height and talent in the league than Durant, Giannis and AD.

Name them. I can’t counter your point of view with out names. They should pop out if they are common players. I can name tons of wings George Harden Durant Thompson Hayward Tatum Booker Kahwi Porter Kuzman Iggy Melo Butler DeRozan Wiggins Beal Wade Oladipo...

Name the top centers in the league.

Boogie, Embiid, KAT, Gobert,Jokic, Drummond, MGasol, Nurkic, Whiteside

[JMac1]

How many 7’1 260lb guys are running around that look and play like Ayton. ZERO! If so, who is he?

Not a one in this league. The last one was Shaq, and he wasn’t skilled. Just explosive and powerful.