2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

[RastaBull]

He was less bad than really bad last season? Is that a long-winded-way of saying he was mediocre?

You like him. Fair enough. That doesn't change his trade value, which is very questionable to those who are trying to be objective in a trade discussion. I dont believe adding him to the #7 in an offer allows the Bulls to move up much if at all. In the scenario presented (#2 overall), the Kings are asking for a better deal than Kris Dunn.

Looks like in this draft the top 9-10 picks have talent so any of these picks can turn out to be a jackpot. Bulls have a good pick @ 7,Don’t see the reason they would trade Dunn to move up unless they are REALLY in love with a particular player. Point is this pick could end up being better than the second pick. After Ayton there’s no clear second best or third best player.

Agree. I certainly have my preferences, but at #7 there is no option that I'm going to be devastated by. In fact, with so many different options on the board I've found a lot of reason to be really positive about each possible option that drops or is there at 7.

There is not a bad player or disappointing option. They all have really excitingly upside and COULD be all-stars ... but for each of them it also comes down to our staff and system developing.

My preference is Porter. I've known his family in my hometown, saw him in junior high, saw his sisters in high school. I think his skillset and size and athleticism make him the easiest to develop into that star potential.

If he's gone and / or Doncic drops, he's got automatic skills that don't need to be developed too. Young will blow people's minds for sure (but will need a lot of close development for his impact to lead to winning basketball). Carter has loads of exciting potential, and good baselines across the board, but that also means he needs careful development across the board to be a real stud. Mikal is similar, but again spectacular baselines across the board still excites me. Bamba is (and will be remembered as) the real wildcard of the draft. With the proper development he could be the next great thing in basketball, generational ... but it's the most difficult and careful development needed of everyone (overall offensive game).

I guess I feel really really optimistic about picking at 7

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[JimmyJammer]

The Bulls organization would never do that. Not only they have been high on Dunn since 2016 draft, they know there is value in the number 7 pick, especially after having been able to draft Lauri at 7 last year. I would not do it either, because I believe Dunn will take major steps forward offensively next season and drafting Porter at 7 is a possibility. When all is said and done, Porter will definitely outmatch Doncic's production.

Agreed. I definitely wouldn’t do it. I rather go into next season with a core of Dunn-Lavine-MPJ-Markkanen than Doncic-Lavine-Markkanen. Plus the defensive backcourt of Doncic/Lavine will have major issues.

That core is vomit worthy. And I like Kris Dunn. I just think Porter and Lavine are too redundant and neither will be good PnR defenders. I've never seen Porter in all the footage I've watched get down low in a stance and move his hips. Never seen him switch effectively on to another player even. His only defensive trait that looks like it might translate well is he has great straight line speed and hops so he gets a lot of chase down blocks. Lavine doesn't recognize what an offense is doing. He's too slow thinking and after four seasons he still hasn't "figured it out" so what makes anyone think it will be different going forward.

I think a team of that core is hopeless. You are counting on a guy coming into his 5th NBA season to learn a basic defensive principle that is mostly "instinct based" in the first place. Also, counting on a draft pick who has never shown that skill to just pick it up after jumping two levels in talent and experience. I would rather go get Luka.

While you have concerns about Porter's defensive stand, I have problems with Luka shooting 31% from three in a sub-par league, not being fast enough to drive around his defenders in the NBA and also being defensively challenged. There are always concerns when it comes to any young players, but it's a matter of what you prioritize. I'd really be concerned about having a backcourt of Doncic and Lavine defensively. And, if you have both on the wings, that would even be worse.

[sco]

I am calling Porter "Schrödinger's cat" he is simultaneously a generational talent and a bust.

[Gray Poster]

I am calling Porter "Schrödinger's cat" he is simultaneously a generational talent and a bust.

Aren't all mystery prospects like that. Giannis, Thon Maker, Darko

[Habs72]

I am calling Porter "Schrödinger's cat" he is simultaneously a generational talent and a bust.

Except against the common thinking Schrödinger didnt mean that it can be both the same time but that the theory is incomplete and cannot represent reality so its either one or the other but not both . Other than that, clever thinkin !

So kinda he is the cat .

[Axolotl]

I am calling Porter "Schrödinger's cat" he is simultaneously a generational talent and a bust.

Except against the common thinking Schrödinger didnt mean that it can be both the same time but that the theory is incomplete and cannot represent reality so its either one or the other . Other than that, clever thinkin !

So kinda he is the cat .

Yeah, he definitely is a Schrödinger's cat. He can be either a bust or a generational talent, but since we haven't observed which, he is still essentially both - until observations are made and the wave function collapses to one of the possible states

[R3AL1TY]

My question is this...do you take the 5th best center prospect (Wendell Carter Jr) or do you take the #1 PG in the draft?

IMO I'd go with Young an figure the rest out later. Not sure how much better Carter is than Lopez.

I may have to go with Young if he is available. When I look at the past several drafts + this upcoming one, a PG that can both shoot and pass well is still a rare commodity. I think I may rank a player's value as:

1. wing or guard that can dribble, shoot, and pass well
2. 2-way stretch big
3. 3&D wing

[Chi town]

I think we have a high floor at our pick but potentially a low ceiling.

1. We trade up and get Luka and JJJ we have two cornerstones for the modern NBA... Best Option and SKY HIGH Ceiling

2. We stay where we are and pick who drops... probably Bamba or MPJ or Bagley. All players that will have long careers and contribute but all with enough flaws that I think they won't move the needle.

3. We stay put and draft Bridges or Carter. Both are impact players right away that help us win. Carter is marginalized due to Lauri and Bridges may only be a 3D wing that plays a highly valueable position and role but doesn't move the needle either... although he is a perfect fit with what we have that may help the other players plays better... the greater than the sum of the parts arguement.

4. We move back due to Traemania and still get Carter or Bridges and pick up another 1st that could used to trade or move up

Overall we sit in a solid spot. I would do everything to move up and get Luka or JJJ though. Those two change the franchise.

[JimmyJammer]

I am calling Porter "Schrödinger's cat" he is simultaneously a generational talent and a bust.

I happen to believe that Porter has a higher floor than people think. To me, his floor is Tobias Harris who is definitely not a bust. His ceiling is somewhere between McGrady and Durant. The only thing that can stop him from being a productive player is if his back starts acting up.

[RememberLu]

I am calling Porter "Schrödinger's cat" he is simultaneously a generational talent and a bust.

I happen to believe that Porter has a higher floor than people think. To me, his floor is Tobias Harris who is definitely not a bust. His ceiling is somewhere between McGrady and Durant. The only thing that can stop him from being a productive player is if his back starts acting up.

Yeah exactly, that last sentence is the most important part and the most important thing about Porter as a prospect. His 'floor' is rock bottom because he could conceivably have an injury plagued career and struggle to stay on the court. Think Derrick Rose post-2012 or Kevin White for the Bears. So in reality, talent aside, his floor is at sea level.

[JimmyJammer]

I am calling Porter "Schrödinger's cat" he is simultaneously a generational talent and a bust.

I happen to believe that Porter has a higher floor than people think. To me, his floor is Tobias Harris who is definitely not a bust. His ceiling is somewhere between McGrady and Durant. The only thing that can stop him from being a productive player is if his back starts acting up.

Yeah exactly, that last sentence is the most important part and the most important thing about Porter as a prospect. His 'floor' is rock bottom because he could conceivably have an injury plagued career and struggle to stay on the court. Think Derrick Rose post-2012 or Kevin White for the Bears. So in reality, talent aside, his floor is at sea level.

I am pretty sure if his back is such a potential problem the Bulls organization will find out in the process leading to the draft.

[johnnyvann840]

Agreed. I definitely wouldn’t do it. I rather go into next season with a core of Dunn-Lavine-MPJ-Markkanen than Doncic-Lavine-Markkanen. Plus the defensive backcourt of Doncic/Lavine will have major issues.

That core is vomit worthy. And I like Kris Dunn. I just think Porter and Lavine are too redundant and neither will be good PnR defenders. I've never seen Porter in all the footage I've watched get down low in a stance and move his hips. Never seen him switch effectively on to another player even. His only defensive trait that looks like it might translate well is he has great straight line speed and hops so he gets a lot of chase down blocks. Lavine doesn't recognize what an offense is doing. He's too slow thinking and after four seasons he still hasn't "figured it out" so what makes anyone think it will be different going forward.

I think a team of that core is hopeless. You are counting on a guy coming into his 5th NBA season to learn a basic defensive principle that is mostly "instinct based" in the first place. Also, counting on a draft pick who has never shown that skill to just pick it up after jumping two levels in talent and experience. I would rather go get Luka.

And your acting like a 19 year old rookie can not get better. Smh. Enough of the these kids are finished projects.

I don't care about Porter's age (btw, he'll be 20 by the time he's drafted and signed in a month.) I care about the fact that he really hasn't changed much as a player since his junior year of high school. And he hasn't played since two season ago and he's coming off back surgery and trying to jump two levels from high school to the NBA and he's never even played in U19, only U17 AAU competition.

[Leslie Forman]

You mean that team with 2 of the greatest wing players in the history of the sport? Yeah I remember that. Was pretty sweet. Let’s just draft 2 guys like that this year, since it’s the last year we are ever allowed to add players to our roster for the rest of time.

Or, you know, go ahead and try to build a contender around two big men who aren't even as good as Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins.

Because that'll go great.

I mean, I don’t have a big man in my preferences. But I’m sure not going to pass on one just because of the position he plays. Not to mention that, offensively, Lauri doesn’t even play like a big, which weakens an already myopic argument.

Well then that big man better be damn amazing, because utilizing your two biggest team building assets two years in a row on big men is a pretty freakin low percentage play.

I don't think the bigs available at 7 are damn amazing at all.

[RememberLu]

I happen to believe that Porter has a higher floor than people think. To me, his floor is Tobias Harris who is definitely not a bust. His ceiling is somewhere between McGrady and Durant. The only thing that can stop him from being a productive player is if his back starts acting up.

Yeah exactly, that last sentence is the most important part and the most important thing about Porter as a prospect. His 'floor' is rock bottom because he could conceivably have an injury plagued career and struggle to stay on the court. Think Derrick Rose post-2012 or Kevin White for the Bears. So in reality, talent aside, his floor is at sea level.

I am pretty sure if his back is such a potential problem the Bulls organization will find out in the process leading to the draft.

They can make an educated guess based on the opinion of doctors, but a guess is still just a guess. We as fans have no choice but to be optimistic if the Bulls do indeed get those medical reports and decide to roll the dice on a gamble. We'll all hope the gamble turns out well but let's be honest, we'll also blame GarPax if things don't work out.

[Leslie Forman]

I don't care about Porter's age (btw, he'll be 20 by the time he's drafted and signed in a month.) I care about the fact that he really hasn't changed much as a player since his junior year of high school. And he hasn't played since two season ago and he's coming off back surgery and trying to jump two levels from high school to the NBA and he's never even played in U19, only U17 AAU competition.

Also, he's a raw vegan.

Ew.

[RememberLu]

I don't care about Porter's age (btw, he'll be 20 by the time he's drafted and signed in a month.) I care about the fact that he really hasn't changed much as a player since his junior year of high school. And he hasn't played since two season ago and he's coming off back surgery and trying to jump two levels from high school to the NBA and he's never even played in U19, only U17 AAU competition.

Also, he's a raw vegan.

Ew.

That's an automatic F on healthiness then from any licensed medical doctor.

[Poohdini1]

Agreed. I definitely wouldn’t do it. I rather go into next season with a core of Dunn-Lavine-MPJ-Markkanen than Doncic-Lavine-Markkanen. Plus the defensive backcourt of Doncic/Lavine will have major issues.

That core is vomit worthy. And I like Kris Dunn. I just think Porter and Lavine are too redundant and neither will be good PnR defenders. I've never seen Porter in all the footage I've watched get down low in a stance and move his hips. Never seen him switch effectively on to another player even. His only defensive trait that looks like it might translate well is he has great straight line speed and hops so he gets a lot of chase down blocks. Lavine doesn't recognize what an offense is doing. He's too slow thinking and after four seasons he still hasn't "figured it out" so what makes anyone think it will be different going forward.

I think a team of that core is hopeless. You are counting on a guy coming into his 5th NBA season to learn a basic defensive principle that is mostly "instinct based" in the first place. Also, counting on a draft pick who has never shown that skill to just pick it up after jumping two levels in talent and experience. I would rather go get Luka.

While you have concerns about Porter's defensive stand, I have problems with Luka shooting 31% from three in a sub-par league, not being fast enough to drive around his defenders in the NBA and also being defensively challenged. There are always concerns when it comes to any young players, but it's a matter of what you prioritize. I'd really be concerned about having a backcourt of Doncic and Lavine defensively. And, if you have both on the wings, that would even be worse.

Luka is a wildcard to me. I've seen the Harden & Manu comps but he's not close to the athlete those 2 were/are. His ability to use his size as an advantage at the 1 in Spain isn't going to work in the NBA. Don't think he'll be a bust, but I don't see him as a lock to be a star like many have.

[JimmyJammer]

I don't care about Porter's age (btw, he'll be 20 by the time he's drafted and signed in a month.) I care about the fact that he really hasn't changed much as a player since his junior year of high school. And he hasn't played since two season ago and he's coming off back surgery and trying to jump two levels from high school to the NBA and he's never even played in U19, only U17 AAU competition.

Also, he's a raw vegan.

Ew.

Would you have preferred he indulged in Big Mac and Dominos? SMH!

[RememberLu]

I don't care about Porter's age (btw, he'll be 20 by the time he's drafted and signed in a month.) I care about the fact that he really hasn't changed much as a player since his junior year of high school. And he hasn't played since two season ago and he's coming off back surgery and trying to jump two levels from high school to the NBA and he's never even played in U19, only U17 AAU competition.

Also, he's a raw vegan.

Ew.

Would you have preferred he indulged in Big Mac and Dominos? SMH!

I'd prefer that he cook his food like a normal person. Even neanderthals knew to cook their food.

[TheSuzerain]

I don't care about Porter's age (btw, he'll be 20 by the time he's drafted and signed in a month.) I care about the fact that he really hasn't changed much as a player since his junior year of high school. And he hasn't played since two season ago and he's coming off back surgery and trying to jump two levels from high school to the NBA and he's never even played in U19, only U17 AAU competition.

Also, he's a raw vegan.

Ew.

The bigger question this raises is how is Jontay so fluffy if the Porters are vegetarian?