The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[JMac1]

Equally hard. There are only one of each. My biggest worry about either is the potential lack of good interior defense from a C. Will he ever be a plus defender? Maybe? You would think with the size and athleticism. Only a couple of people are doubting his ability to dominate on offense and on the boards.

I also think there are more guys with height and talent in the league than Durant, Giannis and AD.

Name them. I can’t counter your point of view with out names. They should pop out if they are common players. I can name tons of wings George Harden Durant Thompson Hayward Tatum Booker Kahwi Porter Kuzman Iggy Melo Butler DeRozan Wiggins Beal Wade Oladipo...

Name the top centers in the league.

Name how many people have height and talent in the NBA? That could take a long time. Here was your quote I was referring to

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Embiid, Jokic, Towns, the list goes on and on......I mean heck you didn't even mention LeBron.

Lebron is 6’8. Jokic isnt 7’1. I should have said athleticism. But Lebron would be included in that. Amazing size and athleticism and skill. Not just an athlete.

Embiid Giannis and KD. A lesser level KAT. That’s it. And Lebron his size, skill, and athleticism has never been matched

[Bob8]

If Ayton had realistic possibilities to become new Shaq or Robinson, we wouldn’t have this thread and Suns would be already selling his shirts.

We would. This debate is about two great prospects. One might just be a better bet than the other. The only reason we wouldn’t be having this debate is if either of them were clearly better than the other....

Doncic will never be LeBron. Now we can stop.

[JMac1]

If Ayton had realistic possibilities to become new Shaq or Robinson, we wouldn’t have this thread and Suns would be already selling his shirts.

We would. This debate is about two great prospects. One might just be a better bet than the other. The only reason we wouldn’t be having this debate is if either of them were clearly better than the other....

Love the sig

[8on]

If Ayton had realistic possibilities to become new Shaq or Robinson, we wouldn’t have this thread and Suns would be already selling his shirts.

We would. This debate is about two great prospects. One might just be a better bet than the other. The only reason we wouldn’t be having this debate is if either of them were clearly better than the other....

Love the sig

the work of the great Kerrsed

[Superhuman]

If Ayton had realistic possibilities to become new Shaq or Robinson, we wouldn’t have this thread and Suns would be already selling his shirts.

We would. This debate is about two great prospects. One might just be a better bet than the other. The only reason we wouldn’t be having this debate is if either of them were clearly better than the other....

Doncic will never be LeBron. Now we can stop.

Funny, earlier in this thread someone said Doncic was going to be Lebron James but without the athleticism. I've also heard he would've averaged 35/9/9 in a whole NCAA season. And I've also heard that the Kings wouldn't even draft Ayton at #2. Cue Westbrook bro whatchu talkin bout man gif*

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

[JMac1]

Read on Twitter

Not sure if anyone posted this, but there's a podcast on the Suns app now hosted by Lindsey Smith. They had James Jones and Sean Miller on today, plenty of talk about Ayton. Haven't finished listening yet myself, but someone on Reddit broke down the basketball/Ayton-related stuff from the Podcast.

Sounds like the stuff I’ve been saying! Never been coached up. Room to grow. Will be one of the best big men ever (I never said that, but I’ll take it). Defense weakness is over blown. 2-3 zone would have pumped up his defnes sitting in paint. Played man to man. Intelligent. Hard working. Great Guy. Family loves Phoenix.

Where do I sign?!

[Fo-Real]

People expecting to out small ball the Warriors and Rockets, like adding yet another 6'8 wing makes our collection of wings and guards better than theirs. Would still be able to play small ball by signing or trading for other talent while also drafting Ayton and being able to run effective two man game. Need more than one gear to beat different teams and Ayton may actually be able to be in both gears with how agile he is. His size and speed actually compares most to Anthony Davis than anyone else, never heard anyone say Davis is a liability. I know he is not the defender Davis is but you cant say he wont get better and we have an excellent coach. I trust he will fix whatever we ask him to fix.

[Kerrsed]

Still want to know where Doncic excels as a scorer in the NBA. If not, might as well trade the pick for Lonzo. At least Lonzo can defend point guards

Or even better we can just sign Tyreke Evans...

[Bob8]

We would. This debate is about two great prospects. One might just be a better bet than the other. The only reason we wouldn’t be having this debate is if either of them were clearly better than the other....

Doncic will never be LeBron. Now we can stop.

Funny, earlier in this thread someone said Doncic was going to be Lebron James but without the athleticism. I've also heard he would've averaged 35/9/9 in a whole NCAA season. And I've also heard that the Kings wouldn't even draft Ayton at #2. Cue Westbrook bro whatchu talkin bout man gif*

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

That's not necessarily the truth. One has won everything possible playing with professionals, other is great looking athlete. Imho this 2 players are incomparable at the moment. Things can of course change in the future.

[Fo-Real]

Ayton makes an NBA allstar team before Doncic in the future.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Brightside's podcast was talking about how Capela only played 24 minutes against the Warriors last night. That's not a max player...

... It's also not a reason to think Ayton would be similarly ineffective. Draymond, KD and Looney can all guard Capela. You try putting those players on Deandre and you'll be in a world of hurt.

People expecting to out small ball the Warriors and Rockets, like adding yet another 6'8 wing makes our collection of wings and guards better than theirs. Would still be able to play small ball by signing or trading for other talent while also drafting Ayton and being able to run effective two man game. Need more than one gear to beat different teams and Ayton may actually be able to be in both gears with how agile he is. His size and speed actually compares most to Anthony Davis than anyone else, never heard anyone say Davis is a liability. I know he is not the defender Davis is but you cant say he wont get better and we have an excellent coach. I trust he will fix whatever we ask him to fix.

Precisely. You force them to match up with you. Surround Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender/[Chriss]/Ayton with defensive guards and go to work.

If we want to be the Warriors, why not just move back and draft Trae Young?

[Superhuman]

Doncic will never be LeBron. Now we can stop.

Funny, earlier in this thread someone said Doncic was going to be Lebron James but without the athleticism. I've also heard he would've averaged 35/9/9 in a whole NCAA season. And I've also heard that the Kings wouldn't even draft Ayton at #2. Cue Westbrook bro whatchu talkin bout man gif*

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

That's not necessarily the truth. One has won everything possible playing with professionals, other is great looking athlete. Imho this 2 players are incomparable at the moment. Things can of course change in the future.

Yes, one has won a euroleague championship playing with the same team for 4 years and has been playing basketball since he came out of his mother's womb. The other is a freakishly athletic generational big that has played 35 games of collegiate ball and has been playing basketball for 4 years. You are correct, this 2 players are incomparable.

[Fo-Real]

Just to be clear and non confrontational (hard for me lately), I would support whatever the front office decided to do be it Ayton Doncic or trades. Love Doncic, love Ayton more and think that whatever they see and decide they have a plan and reason in place. Unlike the Doncic squad I am not throwing shade on Luca just because I want Ayton more. Just like last year when we had the prospect of Josh or Tatum, ITS A GREAT PROBLEM TO HAVE!! Both would help us get better, probably not crazy improvement right away but we would be moving in a much better direction with either, I just prefer Ayton.

[Kerrsed]

Brightside's podcast was talking about how Capela only played 24 minutes against the Warriors last night. That's not a max player...

... It's also not a reason to think Ayton would be similarly ineffective. Draymond, KD and Looney can all guard Capela. You try putting those players on Deandre and you'll be in a world of hurt.

People expecting to out small ball the Warriors and Rockets, like adding yet another 6'8 wing makes our collection of wings and guards better than theirs. Would still be able to play small ball by signing or trading for other talent while also drafting Ayton and being able to run effective two man game. Need more than one gear to beat different teams and Ayton may actually be able to be in both gears with how agile he is. His size and speed actually compares most to Anthony Davis than anyone else, never heard anyone say Davis is a liability. I know he is not the defender Davis is but you cant say he wont get better and we have an excellent coach. I trust he will fix whatever we ask him to fix.

Precisely. You force them to match up with you. Surround Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender/[Chriss]/Ayton with defensive guards and go to work.

If we want to be the Warriors, why not just move back and draft Trae Young?

2 major problems with Capella.

The first is his offense. Unless he is directly under the basket, he doesnt have any! He is good for grabbing rebounds and putting it back up, but for anything else, pretty much trash. Just look at his shot chart this season:



The second reason he cant be in the games late is due to his FT%. He is shooting 52% in the playoffs. Thats not good at all.

I mean he works fine for Dantoni, as they have enough players jacking up long range shots with Capella camped out in the paint trying to grab those misses, but for a team without all that firepower....its not going to end up too well. He wasnt that good until Dantoni got there, so what you are seeing now is due to the Dantoni "Rub". This is going to be the best that Clint can play, and its still not that great. Dantoni was able to take guys and make them look like All-Stars (Like Diaw). He cant even do that with Capella and thats why i have been saying we need to stay far away from him in FA. Going after him would be a mistake, giving him a max contract would be the biggest mistake.

[bigfoot]

I think Ayton will be good. Probably not Davis good or KAT good but he will be good. Problem is bigs don't work in todays league. Too many things stacked against them

1) Defensive 3 second
2) Back to the basket 5 second
3) High pace of play doesn't work for huge guys (too much energy to expend)
4) Inability to cover fast guards in the pick-n-roll moves you to the bench
5) Excellent three point shooters are more valuable (1.2 pts per possession verus <1.0 pts per possession)
6) League protecting guards for fouls but not bigs has been a major complaint
7) Team spreading the floor to create open space in the lane for guards to ISO (Houston ISO's more than any team)
8) Pulling big men away from rim protection by putting a 6'9" three point shooter/defender on the floor
9) Teams shooting more three pointers (Houston over 50 per game)
10) Injuries are mounting in the NBA (31% increase over 2017) ... big men are notorious for bodies breaking down
11) Players put on weight as they age so Ayton's career likely to be shorter than Doncic
12) Cousins has never been in playoffs in 10 years, Davis in playoffs 2 of 6 years.
13) Post game is we worst shot in the league.

People who want to draft Ayton are remembering the glory days for Shaq, Robinson, Duncan, and Hakeem ... you know slower pace, hand checking of guards to slow down the pick-n-roll, etc. Those days don't exist anymore because guard play has been favored. Again 100 post ups doesn't beat 100 three pointers. That's why Doncic and his all-around game including shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, leadership, BBIQ, motor, team defense, and winning-everwhere-he-goes is the best choice.

[Bob8]

Funny, earlier in this thread someone said Doncic was going to be Lebron James but without the athleticism. I've also heard he would've averaged 35/9/9 in a whole NCAA season. And I've also heard that the Kings wouldn't even draft Ayton at #2. Cue Westbrook bro whatchu talkin bout man gif*

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

That's not necessarily the truth. One has won everything possible playing with professionals, other is great looking athlete. Imho this 2 players are incomparable at the moment. Things can of course change in the future.

Yes, one has won a euroleague championship playing with the same team for 4 years and has been playing basketball since he came out of his mother's womb. The other is a freakishly athletic generational big that has played 35 games of collegiate ball and has been playing basketball for 4 years. You are correct, this 2 players are incomparable.

In basketball many things are instinctive and because of that is better to be born with the ball in your hand. You have many freakish athletes in this draft and some will never understand basketball. For example one man in this video is totally clueless about pick&roll D. He will be target every time in Nba and it will look ugly.

Watch on YouTube

[J_T]

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

[JMac1]

Just to be clear and non confrontational (hard for me lately), I would support whatever the front office decided to do be it Ayton Doncic or trades. Love Doncic, love Ayton more and think that whatever they see and decide they have a plan and reason in place. Unlike the Doncic squad I am not throwing shade on Luca just because I want Ayton more. Just like last year when we had the prospect of Josh or Tatum, ITS A GREAT PROBLEM TO HAVE!! Both would help us get better, probably not crazy improvement right away but we would be moving in a much better direction with either, I just prefer Ayton.

I agree. Most Doncic guys are killing Ayton. The big knock on Doncic from Ayton supporters is the lack of athleticism and concern for not being able to beat NBA wings off the dribble. Some his 3pt shooting. They credit his heart. His drive. His coolness. His leadership. His playmaking. His it factor.

Doncic people say Ayton is basically useless in today’s game because he doesnt play defense. Curry would score 50! Harden would score 50! He’ll be run off the court. No rim protection. Not elite or a special specimen. Not a hard worker. Low BBIQ. Low post only scorer. No low post scoring. Can’t shoot the NBA 3. Not skilled. Ayton 20 11 is meaningless. He survived just because he was bigger, that won’t translate. He isn’t unique, when that’s all you hear from the pros.

Exhale.

[Fo-Real]

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

I think superhuman is right... guess I'm not careful and my reality only merges with his.

[jcsunsfan]

Just to be clear and non confrontational (hard for me lately), I would support whatever the front office decided to do be it Ayton Doncic or trades. Love Doncic, love Ayton more and think that whatever they see and decide they have a plan and reason in place. Unlike the Doncic squad I am not throwing shade on Luca just because I want Ayton more. Just like last year when we had the prospect of Josh or Tatum, ITS A GREAT PROBLEM TO HAVE!! Both would help us get better, probably not crazy improvement right away but we would be moving in a much better direction with either, I just prefer Ayton.

I agree. Most Doncic guys are killing Ayton. The big knock on Doncic from Ayton supporters is the lack of athleticism and concern for not being able to beat NBA wings off the dribble. Some his 3pt shooting. They credit his heart. His drive. His coolness. His leadership. His playmaking. His it factor.

Doncic people say Ayton is basically useless in today’s game because he doesnt play defense. Curry would score 50! Harden would score 50! He’ll be run off the court. No rim protection. Not elite or a special specimen. Not a hard worker. Low BBIQ. Low post only scorer. No low post scoring. Can’t shoot the NBA 3. Not skilled. Ayton 20 11 is meaningless. He survived just because he was bigger, that won’t translate. He isn’t unique, when that’s all you hear from the pros.

Exhale.

Its like a religious cult.