The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[J_T]

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

I think superhuman is right... guess I'm not careful and my reality only merges with his.

That's why he is superhuman.

[JMac1]

I think Ayton will be good. Probably not Davis good or KAT good but he will be good. Problem is bigs don't work in todays league. Too many things stacked against them

1) Defensive 3 second
2) Back to the basket 5 second
3) High pace of play doesn't work for huge guys (too much energy to expend)
4) Inability to cover fast guards in the pick-n-roll moves you to the bench
5) Excellent three point shooters are more valuable (1.2 pts per possession verus <1.0 pts per possession)
6) League protecting guards for fouls but not bigs has been a major complaint
7) Team spreading the floor to create open space in the lane for guards to ISO (Houston ISO's more than any team)
8) Pulling big men away from rim protection by putting a 6'9" three point shooter/defender on the floor
9) Teams shooting more three pointers (Houston over 50 per game)
10) Injuries are mounting in the NBA (31% increase over 2017) ... big men are notorious for bodies breaking down
11) Players put on weight as they age so Ayton's career likely to be shorter than Doncic
12) Cousins has never been in playoffs in 10 years, Davis in playoffs 2 of 6 years.
13) Post game is we worst shot in the league.

People who want to draft Ayton are remembering the glory days for Shaq, Robinson, Duncan, and Hakeem ... you know slower pace, hand checking of guards to slow down the pick-n-roll, etc. Those days don't exist anymore because guard play has been favored. Again 100 post ups doesn't beat 100 three pointers. That's why Doncic and his all-around game including shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, leadership, BBIQ, motor, team defense, and winning-everwhere-he-goes is the best choice.

I want to draft Ayton because he is BPA.

Edit: Shaq Duncan and Hakeem would dominate these midgets in today’s basketball. Lol! They dominated giants who tripled team them. The problem is there are no players who play that way today. David Robinson would kill this league. Duncan did until he retired, which wasn’t too long ago.

Also, shooting threes don’t mean jack if you don’t have shooters no more than a Center means jack if the can’t play.

GS has the greatest shooting team in the history of the game, that’s why they are so good. Haven’t you notice the Center didn’t become antiquated until Curry’s arrival. Can’t wait for more teams to emulate GS just to find out it was the talent and not the system.

D’Antoni system stunk in NYK and LA!

[Superhuman]

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Anamaria Goltes

Spoiler:

[Villalobos]

Brightside's podcast was talking about how Capela only played 24 minutes against the Warriors last night. That's not a max player...

now imagine a center who doesn't defend. he'd probably get zero minutes that series. d'antoni isn't even playing a PF who doesn't defend, playing an undersized SF instead

[Bob8]

Just to be clear and non confrontational (hard for me lately), I would support whatever the front office decided to do be it Ayton Doncic or trades. Love Doncic, love Ayton more and think that whatever they see and decide they have a plan and reason in place. Unlike the Doncic squad I am not throwing shade on Luca just because I want Ayton more. Just like last year when we had the prospect of Josh or Tatum, ITS A GREAT PROBLEM TO HAVE!! Both would help us get better, probably not crazy improvement right away but we would be moving in a much better direction with either, I just prefer Ayton.

I agree. Most Doncic guys are killing Ayton. The big knock on Doncic from Ayton supporters is the lack of athleticism and concern for not being able to beat NBA wings off the dribble. Some his 3pt shooting. They credit his heart. His drive. His coolness. His leadership. His playmaking. His it factor.

Doncic people say Ayton is basically useless in today’s game because he doesnt play defense. Curry would score 50! Harden would score 50! He’ll be run off the court. No rim protection. Not elite or a special specimen. Not a hard worker. Low BBIQ. Low post only scorer. No low post scoring. Can’t shoot the NBA 3. Not skilled. Ayton 20 11 is meaningless. He survived just because he was bigger, that won’t translate. He isn’t unique, when that’s all you hear from the pros.

Exhale.

I hope you understand that nothing what we write here matters. About Doncic or Ayton. Only thing that matters is that Suns drafts the right man. I''m sure that should be Luka, you Ayton. Time will show, who was right.

[JMac1]

Brightside's podcast was talking about how Capela only played 24 minutes against the Warriors last night. That's not a max player...

now imagine a center who doesn't defend. he'd probably get zero minutes that series. d'antoni isn't even playing a PF who doesn't defend, playing an undersized SF instead

I thought his defense was exceptional. It was more that he hurt the offensive. Aka Gobert.

You guys can’t even see it. They are getting pulled because they suck on offense. When it comes down to it, teams are gonna have to score the ball. AD has never been pulled!!

He was a one man wrecking crew!

[Kerrsed]

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Anamaria Goltes

Spoiler:

Aytons girl is just as hot (Even hotter in my eyes).

Spoiler:

[JMac1]

Just to be clear and non confrontational (hard for me lately), I would support whatever the front office decided to do be it Ayton Doncic or trades. Love Doncic, love Ayton more and think that whatever they see and decide they have a plan and reason in place. Unlike the Doncic squad I am not throwing shade on Luca just because I want Ayton more. Just like last year when we had the prospect of Josh or Tatum, ITS A GREAT PROBLEM TO HAVE!! Both would help us get better, probably not crazy improvement right away but we would be moving in a much better direction with either, I just prefer Ayton.

I agree. Most Doncic guys are killing Ayton. The big knock on Doncic from Ayton supporters is the lack of athleticism and concern for not being able to beat NBA wings off the dribble. Some his 3pt shooting. They credit his heart. His drive. His coolness. His leadership. His playmaking. His it factor.

Doncic people say Ayton is basically useless in today’s game because he doesnt play defense. Curry would score 50! Harden would score 50! He’ll be run off the court. No rim protection. Not elite or a special specimen. Not a hard worker. Low BBIQ. Low post only scorer. No low post scoring. Can’t shoot the NBA 3. Not skilled. Ayton 20 11 is meaningless. He survived just because he was bigger, that won’t translate. He isn’t unique, when that’s all you hear from the pros.

Exhale.

I hope you understand that nothing what we write here matters. About Doncic or Ayton. Only thing that matters is that Suns drafts the right man. I''m sure that should be Luka, you Ayton. Time will show, who was right.

Oh yea. I’m just tire of the back and forth. Can’t wait until June whatever...25th?!?

The board will be split until they see Ayton in Summer League, then they’ll get it.

[JMac1]

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Anamaria Goltes

Spoiler:

Aytons girl is just as hot.

Spoiler:

Thank you Kerrsed. Very nice cutie pie.

Ayton wins there too!!

[Superhuman]

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Anamaria Goltes

Spoiler:

Aytons girl is just as hot.

Spoiler:

Well ****. Yeah guys, Ayton at #1 is a foregone conclusion. Thread should be locked.

[Bob8]

I agree. Most Doncic guys are killing Ayton. The big knock on Doncic from Ayton supporters is the lack of athleticism and concern for not being able to beat NBA wings off the dribble. Some his 3pt shooting. They credit his heart. His drive. His coolness. His leadership. His playmaking. His it factor.

Doncic people say Ayton is basically useless in today’s game because he doesnt play defense. Curry would score 50! Harden would score 50! He’ll be run off the court. No rim protection. Not elite or a special specimen. Not a hard worker. Low BBIQ. Low post only scorer. No low post scoring. Can’t shoot the NBA 3. Not skilled. Ayton 20 11 is meaningless. He survived just because he was bigger, that won’t translate. He isn’t unique, when that’s all you hear from the pros.

Exhale.

I hope you understand that nothing what we write here matters. About Doncic or Ayton. Only thing that matters is that Suns drafts the right man. I''m sure that should be Luka, you Ayton. Time will show, who was right.

Oh yea. I’m just tire of the back and forth. Can’t wait until June whatever...25th?!?

The board will be split until they see Ayton in Summer League, then they’ll get it.

Maybe he can take MVP award from Lonzo's hands.

[J_T]

Pro Ayton crowd have been more fair in their analysis of both as opposed to the Pro Doncic crowd IMO

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Ok, but it's one thing if there was like... 95% for Ayton and 5% for Doncic. The probability would suggest that pro-Ayton arguments were stronger and it would have been possible that some of the 5% arguments were really weak. Imagine if the poll was Ayton vs. Lonnie Walker. I'm pretty sure there would have been some people supporting Lonnie Walker. I have seen somebody saying few days ago that he thinks Lonnie Walker will be the best player out of this draft, no kidding. If that happened you could easily claim that the people defending Walker as number one have let's say a bit of an irrational bias. But with so many people supporting Ayton and with so many people supporting Doncic, I don't think there is an irrational bias for either one of them. I think that most of the arguments made by both sides are reasonable.

A year ago, when Doncic was 5th in mock drafts and Ayton was 3rd or 4th, I wrote in this forum that I see them as number one (Doncic) and two (Ayton). A year later turns out I was right. I like both of these players, if I had top two picks I'd picked them both.

[JMac1]

How in the hell did we get to comparing girlfriends?

We just went off the deep end!

[JMac1]

I hope you understand that nothing what we write here matters. About Doncic or Ayton. Only thing that matters is that Suns drafts the right man. I''m sure that should be Luka, you Ayton. Time will show, who was right.

Oh yea. I’m just tire of the back and forth. Can’t wait until June whatever...25th?!?

The board will be split until they see Ayton in Summer League, then they’ll get it.

Maybe he can take MVP award from Lonzo's hands.

I get the joke. Which I knew was coming... Summer League blah blah blah.

No. It’s you haven’t seen him play since Buffalo. Some here need a refresher course.

Doncic has had some average at best games but people here still hail those as OMG he is fantastic because that’s the only guy playing right now.

Focus on Ayton not the guys he is abusing. Focus on his shooting, his ball handling, his passing and drop step and face up stroke. Act as if it’s an open NBA shot, because the rim is 10ft in Summer League and during the regular season. I know some people struggle to understand what to look for in Summer League, don’t be one of those guys.

[BobbieL]

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Anamaria Goltes

Spoiler:

Aytons girl is just as hot (Even hotter in my eyes).

Spoiler:

another poll?

both are lovely young ladies -

[J_T]

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Anamaria Goltes

Spoiler:

Aytons girl is just as hot (Even hotter in my eyes).

Spoiler:

another poll?

both are lovely young ladies -

Yeah, except that they are not really ladies, but girls instead. So not sure what's the case with legality...

[Superhuman]

Saying that is usually first step to ignorance. I'm not saying that's the case here, but whenever you start feeling like that, you should be careful and make a reality check. For example I am not noticing any difference between the "teams", and considering the 50-50 split anything else would have been unexpected.

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Ok, but it's one thing if there was like... 95% for Ayton and 5% for Doncic. The probability would suggest that pro-Ayton arguments were stronger and it would have been possible that some of the 5% arguments were really weak. Imagine if the poll was Ayton vs. Lonnie Walker. I'm pretty sure there would have been some people supporting Lonnie Walker. I have seen somebody saying few days ago that he thinks Lonnie Walker will be the best player out of this draft, no kidding. If that happened you could easily claim that the people defending Walker as number one have let's say a bit of an irrational bias. But with so many people supporting Ayton and with so many people supporting Doncic, I don't think there is an irrational bias for either one of them. I think that most of the arguments made by both sides are reasonable.

A year ago, when Doncic was 5th in mock drafts and Ayton was 3rd or 4th, I wrote in this forum that I see them as number one (Doncic) and two (Ayton). A year later turns out I was right. I like both of these players, if I had top two picks I'd picked them both.

I was just saying how some of the predictions and comparisons to Doncic were unrealistic, like saying he's going to be Lebron without the athleticism, him averaging a triple double for an entire NCAA season. Do you truly believe he can be and do all that? I haven't seen many outlandish and out of this world predictions for Ayton.

For the most part both sides have been giving great arguments. If Doncic were the pick I would still be excited as hell and would look forward to watching him in person during summer league.

[thamadkant]

Brightside's podcast was talking about how Capela only played 24 minutes against the Warriors last night. That's not a max player...

now imagine a center who doesn't defend. he'd probably get zero minutes that series. d'antoni isn't even playing a PF who doesn't defend, playing an undersized SF instead

Imagine Davis with Paul and Harden...

Davis would foul out Green... In a fair world anyways...


But Davis would absolutely tear the inside of he has 2 elite wing players that makes defenses panic and run out ...






And in suns case


Doesn't matter. Booker wants Ayton.
Booker is the teams main corner stone.
Jackson also wants Ayton.

The perimeter combo of Booker and Jackson needs ball handling duty to properly develop them to their full potential.


Doncic would be an amazing combo forward though... But Suns have no way to trade for him... As the team ... Ahem... Owner... Is set in drafting the Suns first ever Number 1 pick and he's gonna make sure that guy is fully supported by the community... And Ayton ticks all those boxes as well as Bookers and Jackson's...

[8on]

DA and Luka don’t even have to put in work. All they have to do is go up to any woman in the world and say, “Hi, I’m in the running for the #1 pick in this year’s NBA Draft.”

[Bob8]

It's not ignorance, it's just my opinion and what I have been noticing from this thread. I meant no disrespect of any kind, just calling it like I see it. I will say that the one thing Doncic has over Ayton is in the girlfriend department.

Ok, but it's one thing if there was like... 95% for Ayton and 5% for Doncic. The probability would suggest that pro-Ayton arguments were stronger and it would have been possible that some of the 5% arguments were really weak. Imagine if the poll was Ayton vs. Lonnie Walker. I'm pretty sure there would have been some people supporting Lonnie Walker. I have seen somebody saying few days ago that he thinks Lonnie Walker will be the best player out of this draft, no kidding. If that happened you could easily claim that the people defending Walker as number one have let's say a bit of an irrational bias. But with so many people supporting Ayton and with so many people supporting Doncic, I don't think there is an irrational bias for either one of them. I think that most of the arguments made by both sides are reasonable.

A year ago, when Doncic was 5th in mock drafts and Ayton was 3rd or 4th, I wrote in this forum that I see them as number one (Doncic) and two (Ayton). A year later turns out I was right. I like both of these players, if I had top two picks I'd picked them both.

I was just saying how some of the predictions and comparisons to Doncic were unrealistic, like saying he's going to be Lebron without the athleticism, him averaging a triple double for an entire NCAA season. Do you truly believe he can be and do all that? I haven't seen many outlandish and out of this world predictions for Ayton.

For the most part both sides have been giving great arguments. If Doncic were the pick I would still be excited as hell and would look forward to watching him in person during summer league.

1. Ayton is compared with the best Cs ever played the game. Luka's game is at best compared with Harden's game.

2. Luka won't play in summer league. His season ends in the end off June and he's playing almost 20 months nonstop.