The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[DirtyDez]

Brightside's podcast was talking about how Capela only played 24 minutes against the Warriors last night. That's not a max player...

now imagine a center who doesn't defend. he'd probably get zero minutes that series. d'antoni isn't even playing a PF who doesn't defend, playing an undersized SF instead

Imagine Davis with Paul and Harden...

Davis would foul out Green... In a fair world anyways...


But Davis would absolutely tear the inside of he has 2 elite wing players that makes defenses panic and run out ...






And in suns case


Doesn't matter. Booker wants Ayton.
Booker is the teams main corner stone.
Jackson also wants Ayton.

The perimeter combo of Booker and Jackson needs ball handling duty to properly develop them to their full potential.


Doncic would be an amazing combo forward though... But Suns have no way to trade for him... As the team ... Ahem... Owner... Is set in drafting the Suns first ever Number 1 pick and he's gonna make sure that guy is fully supported by the community... And Ayton ticks all those boxes as well as Bookers and Jackson's...

[King4Day]

McD was just on NBA radio. Just regurgitated what we've already heard.

He clarified that he's not looking to move the pick but only would do it if it was a young star under contract.
I think he means AD or Giannis.

Also said a deal of the #4 pick for a star wasn't as close as the media made it seem last year. He simply admitted there were talks. That's it.

Nothing else juicy noted though.

[bwgood77]

I agree. Most Doncic guys are killing Ayton. The big knock on Doncic from Ayton supporters is the lack of athleticism and concern for not being able to beat NBA wings off the dribble. Some his 3pt shooting. They credit his heart. His drive. His coolness. His leadership. His playmaking. His it factor.

Doncic people say Ayton is basically useless in today’s game because he doesnt play defense. Curry would score 50! Harden would score 50! He’ll be run off the court. No rim protection. Not elite or a special specimen. Not a hard worker. Low BBIQ. Low post only scorer. No low post scoring. Can’t shoot the NBA 3. Not skilled. Ayton 20 11 is meaningless. He survived just because he was bigger, that won’t translate. He isn’t unique, when that’s all you hear from the pros.

Exhale.

I hope you understand that nothing what we write here matters. About Doncic or Ayton. Only thing that matters is that Suns drafts the right man. I''m sure that should be Luka, you Ayton. Time will show, who was right.

Oh yea. I’m just tire of the back and forth. Can’t wait until June whatever...25th?!?

The board will be split until they see Ayton in Summer League, then they’ll get it.

You have a strange way of showing your tiredness.

[Mulhollanddrive]

All you have to do is go back to last year's draft to realise high conviction stubborn opinions are fools gold.

[8on]

All you have to do is go back to last year's draft to realise high conviction stubborn opinions are fools gold.

DA and Luka are way better prospects than anyone from 2017.

[Mulhollanddrive]

2017 was called the best draft class since LeBron all that season.

History says one of Doncic or Ayton will bust as it's been 19 years since a draft class had both pick 1 and 2 make All-Star.

Everyone is so confident about their guy to the point they get angry about the other side when everybody is just guessing.

[DirtyDez]

My biggest fear of Ayton is that he’s really 25 years old. He has some of that Greg Oden in him lol. Huge freaks like that at a young age make me nervous with injuries (Oden, Embiid, Porzingis etc)... so far Ayton hasn’t had any health issues that we know of and didn’t have a problem adding significant bulk in a short time. His body handles it fine... He’s a physical marvel.

[8on]

2017 was called the best draft class since LeBron all that season.

History says one of Doncic or Ayton will bust as it's been 19 years since a draft class had both pick 1 and 2 make All-Star.

Everyone is so confident about their guy to the point they get angry about the other side when everybody is just guessing.

You really think Tatum or Mitchell was a better prospect (as an amateur) than Doncic or Ayton? I know you didn’t say that outright, but is that what you’re implying here?

Also, teams are getting better at drafting than they were ten years ago. Very few outright busts in the top 10 picks in the last 5 years as compared to pre-2008.

[JMac1]

I hope you understand that nothing what we write here matters. About Doncic or Ayton. Only thing that matters is that Suns drafts the right man. I''m sure that should be Luka, you Ayton. Time will show, who was right.

Oh yea. I’m just tire of the back and forth. Can’t wait until June whatever...25th?!?

The board will be split until they see Ayton in Summer League, then they’ll get it.

You have a strange way of showing your tiredness.

I am. I’m just waiting to hit the gym at 5. Just rambling on. Enjoying the GOOD banter. School is done for the year, as of 10:30 am Phoenix time. No school. No track. No football. More of everything else.

[JMac1]

All you have to do is go back to last year's draft to realise high conviction stubborn opinions are fools gold.

DA and Luka are way better prospects than anyone from 2017.

I agree. Obviously Mitchell outplayed his draft position, but as a prospect he wasn’t better than those two coming out.

Speaking of Mitchell.....how in the hell did fall to 13?!? I don’t remember anyone mentioning him on this board last year.

I look to you guys for the sleepers and later picks. I don’t go past the top 10 when it comes to scouting players. If this board says check out so and so, I go with that. Nothing on Mitchell last year.

Anyways, Ayton’s ceiling is through the roof and Doncic ceilings is a taller less explosive Harden, but just as effective, but better on the block because of his size.

Mitchell is the only one from last year’s draft that is a better prospect going forward today at this time. Dude is a better shooting Wade.

[JMac1]

My biggest fear of Ayton is that he’s really 25 years old. He has some of that Greg Oden in him lol. Huge freaks like that at a young age make me nervous with injuries (Oden, Embiid, Porzingis etc)... so far Ayton hasn’t had any health issues that we know of and didn’t have a problem adding significant bulk in a short time. His body handles it fine... He’s a physical marvel.

Not even close. Oden’s forehead looked like a Shar Pei. No wrinkles on our new Center’s face.

[jcsunsfan]

My biggest fear of Ayton is that he’s really 25 years old. He has some of that Greg Oden in him lol. Huge freaks like that at a young age make me nervous with injuries (Oden, Embiid, Porzingis etc)... so far Ayton hasn’t had any health issues that we know of and didn’t have a problem adding significant bulk in a short time. His body handles it fine... He’s a physical marvel.

Not even close. Oden’s forehead looked like a Shar Pei. No wrinkles on our new Center’s face.

[JMac1]

My biggest fear of Ayton is that he’s really 25 years old. He has some of that Greg Oden in him lol. Huge freaks like that at a young age make me nervous with injuries (Oden, Embiid, Porzingis etc)... so far Ayton hasn’t had any health issues that we know of and didn’t have a problem adding significant bulk in a short time. His body handles it fine... He’s a physical marvel.

Not even close. Oden’s forehead looked like a Shar Pei. No wrinkles on our new Center’s face.

[Archx]

So i see we exhausted all arguments now and it got to the point who has the hotter girlfriend?

But in reality i think Ayton SHOULD and WILL go nr1. Simply because its their own homeboy hero. And front office at some point has to start selling tickets again and they probably don't even care anymore if Luka becomes a bigger version of James Harden and if he is coming from probably the best sport institution in the world... Ayton is their home guy and it is appropriate that Suns take him specially cos' of the huge pressure from the public and front office knows that.

[lilfishi22]

I suppose when people stop assuming Ayton already has a 3PT shot in his arsenal. If we're talking shooting, Luka is far further advanced from a developed shot from all levels than Ayton. So if we're not going to expect Doncic to raise his 3pt% by 10%, we shouldn't do the same for Ayton.

Regarding defense in the NBA, it's definitely going to be tougher but there's also notably more spacing for him to work. Someone who knows how to use a screen well to create space will bring that every game but he may only encounter legit high level defenders that would shut him down every so few games.

I would say it's pretty hypocritical to counter perceived hyperbole on Ayton's shooting ability with your own hyperbole. Why does Ayton even come into the conversation? His shooting has nothing to do with Luka's, and Ayton should not be your benchmark for the shooting ability of a guard.

I've already said that I expect his shooting to improve, so rest easy everyone pointing out that Goran's did, he'll have less shots late in the clock, and/or his role will be more off-ball. My point is that it's getting frustrating to see the people nitpicking the **** out of Ayton's flaws on defense are the ones writing off Luka's poor on-ball defense as unimportant because he's a guard and making every excuse under the Sun for his shooting percentages (legitimate or not).

This thread is Ayton vs Doncic. So when we're talking about weaknesses, we should discuss them on an even plane. What I've seen is the overrating and underrating of the abilities of both players. People are assuming Ayton's 3 level shooting is a given and if they can assume Ayton can smoothly transition into a legit 3PT threat, why can't the same be said for Doncic. I share your frustration when people say Ayton is going to improve into an above average rim protector because of his athleticism yet completely rule out Luka being any sort of impact because he isn't athletic despite his high BBIQ and already high defensive awareness/fundamentals. If we're going to have a proper discussion about these two then there should be some balance when we're projecting.

[8on]

Ayton is not a better 3 pt shooter than Doncic. No one should expect him to be. I concede that now and always

[bwgood77]

2017 was called the best draft class since LeBron all that season.

History says one of Doncic or Ayton will bust as it's been 19 years since a draft class had both pick 1 and 2 make All-Star.

Everyone is so confident about their guy to the point they get angry about the other side when everybody is just guessing.

I don't know that I'd call Oden a bust. He just had his career shortened. The top 3 that year was him, Durant and Horford. Obviously the latter two were all stars. Oden probably would have been if he had stayed healthy.

[bhawk]

I think Ayton will be good. Probably not Davis good or KAT good but he will be good. Problem is bigs don't work in todays league. Too many things stacked against them

1) Defensive 3 second
2) Back to the basket 5 second
3) High pace of play doesn't work for huge guys (too much energy to expend)
4) Inability to cover fast guards in the pick-n-roll moves you to the bench
5) Excellent three point shooters are more valuable (1.2 pts per possession verus <1.0 pts per possession)
6) League protecting guards for fouls but not bigs has been a major complaint
7) Team spreading the floor to create open space in the lane for guards to ISO (Houston ISO's more than any team)
8) Pulling big men away from rim protection by putting a 6'9" three point shooter/defender on the floor
9) Teams shooting more three pointers (Houston over 50 per game)
10) Injuries are mounting in the NBA (31% increase over 2017) ... big men are notorious for bodies breaking down
11) Players put on weight as they age so Ayton's career likely to be shorter than Doncic
12) Cousins has never been in playoffs in 10 years, Davis in playoffs 2 of 6 years.
13) Post game is we worst shot in the league.

People who want to draft Ayton are remembering the glory days for Shaq, Robinson, Duncan, and Hakeem ... you know slower pace, hand checking of guards to slow down the pick-n-roll, etc. Those days don't exist anymore because guard play has been favored. Again 100 post ups doesn't beat 100 three pointers. That's why Doncic and his all-around game including shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, leadership, BBIQ, motor, team defense, and winning-everwhere-he-goes is the best choice.

Ayton supporters are NOT stuck in the "glory" days. It is the opposite for me and potentially others, because Ayton is an amazing ALL-AROUND player. In fact, I like Ayton most because he is both an inside and outside player. He has a well-developed and reliable mid-range to long-range game. If the lane is crowded or a smaller player switches on to Ayton, he has a high release (because of his height) and shoots a high-percentage over the top of the defender with his soft hands. He is quick, agile, he has GREAT touch and sports a very translatable FT%.

With most BIGs, it is POWER (Shaq) OR FINESSE (A. Davis). With Ayton, it is BOTH.

This is not an argument of 100 post ups vs. 100 three pointers, because Ayton does both very well. He has one of the best ALL around offensive skill-sets in the last 10 years for a BIG. An NBA-ready skill-set, that will translate very nicely to this NEW era in the NBA.

You opened with "Not Davis or KAT good"... what if he is better than those guys? I think he could very well be.

He is SensAYTiONAL.

[Villalobos]

Brightside's podcast was talking about how Capela only played 24 minutes against the Warriors last night. That's not a max player...

now imagine a center who doesn't defend. he'd probably get zero minutes that series. d'antoni isn't even playing a PF who doesn't defend, playing an undersized SF instead

Imagine Davis with Paul and Harden...

Davis would foul out Green... In a fair world anyways...


But Davis would absolutely tear the inside of he has 2 elite wing players that makes defenses panic and run out ...

comparing Ayton to Davis


I said imagine a center who doesn't defend. Warriors would gladly take Green out of the equation if they can eat the opposing center alive on offense. If that was the brilliant game plan teams would be trying to get guys like Kanter, but no one is because most centers who don't defend have next to no value in playoff basketball.

Doesn't matter. Booker wants Ayton.
Booker is the teams main corner stone.
Jackson also wants Ayton.

Jackson's opinion is irrelevant until he proves himself as a borderline star, let alone simply a plus player. It doesn't matter what Booker wants right now because if Ayton doesn't pan out he's likely gone at the end of his contract anyway. He's not going to care that you picked his preferred player 3 years ago that turned out to be mediocre or suck ass.

[bigfoot]

My biggest fear is this ... Wendall Carter 30 and 16 ... Ayton 19 and 10 ... lazy and disinterested.

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