2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

[navdeep_singh]

Lots of ELITE athletes are now vegan, from Lewis Hamilton on down. They do it for better health and better performance I think people are realizing that whole foods and not processed foods are much better for you. They help you with digestion significantly and also in retaining nutrients

[Truebiscuit]

Lastly, calling Porter a ball stopper is a bit premature. It's probably the same posters that claim thy don't have enough information on him.

"Doesn't think the game at a high level. Plays catch-and-hold basketball. One of the oldest freshmen in the draft." - Mike Schmitz on MPJ

[johnnyvann840]

I suggest everyone read that article about Porter’s diet. He still was feeling back pain at the end of the season, and it got worse when he played those last few games. It wasn’t rust, it was back pain.

At that point, he was mostly vegan. Now he says he is going to a all raw vegan diet. He says he feels good, but he still has not tested his back in real basketball situations. At this point, he is only doing basketball training for 75 minutes per day.

He’s hopeful that the raw vegan diet will keep the back pain away, but he really doesn’t know.

The scary point is that he was feeling significant back pain four months after his surgery. That’s not good. Doesn’t sound like one would call his surgery a complete success by any means. He’s counting on a raw vegan diet to fix the back pain that his surgery did not fix. Ugh.


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Wow

I think he's going to have more back problems a lot sooner than everybody seems to think. Nerve pain is the big, big problem with people who have had a microdiscetomy. I just watched a few videos the other day about his condition. One of them I posted here with a top back surgeon explaining how the pain can come back, go away , come back again. He also stated that your doctor is not going to be able to tell you much other than how it looks... but that doesn't have much to do with your prognosis going forward. That they really cannot give a definite prognosis. He also said that the highest success rates are for people with leg and foot pain from the herniated disc and that it can make the leg pain disappear but that in many cases the back may not get better at all or it might just get a little better after the part of the herniated disc is removed. Also, that can come and go even after the surgery.

It's scary stuff and reading that article it sounds like Porter Jr was still having quite a bit of pain even five months after his surgery (which is already on the long side for recovery if the surgery is minor).. He had the surgery in November and tried to play in games in April. Now he says he feels great and he thinks it's because of his diet. How long is an anti-inflammatory diet going to help for somebody who has part of one his herniated lumbar discs removed.

People can say... "that's what doctors are for"... blah blah.. but, here is one of the top surgeons in the country saying that a doctor really cannot tell by looking at it. So, we basically are going off of what Porter Jr says.

I still think we are in for a big surprise on draft day. I see one of those really awkward moments where he keeps slipping and the camera is on him on draft day.. but they keep calling names and nobody wants to take the chance. If doctors who specialize in this and perform these surgeries cannot really make a definite prognosis on this kind of injury and surgical repair, no team doctor is going to put himself on the line for it.

Somebody will take a chance but it won't be in the top 7 or maybe not even in the top ten.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Lastly, calling Porter a ball stopper is a bit premature. It's probably the same posters that claim thy don't have enough information on him.

"Doesn't think the game at a high level. Plays catch-and-hold basketball. One of the oldest freshmen in the draft." - Mike Schmitz on MPJ

It's premature because he's incredibly young and has very little experience with high level coaching.

If you called Klay Thompson a ball stopper, you wouldn't be wrong. But he's a better player than anyone on this team.

[bad knees]

You realize that most doctors don’t have a goddamn clue about nutrition, receiving almost no training in their many years of med school and residency on the subject . There is nothing wrong with a vegan diet. It’s actually much healthier than a meat and dairy-based diet. Beans have far more protein and nutrients and fiber than meat, with no cholesterol. Vegans are far more healthier overall in society, by every measure, obesity, heart disease, cancer at Cetera. It’s been proven in study after study . People forget that large numbers of humanity can’t even digest dairy: That’s because it’s grown fluid to transform a baby cow to a 700 pound adult .

So if you want to attack MPJ go ahead but don’t invite this garbage about diet, that’s a non sequitur and red herring .

No one is saying there is anything wrong with a vegan diet. The point is that Porter was feeling significant back pain in those few games he played at the end of the season - four months after surgery - and he is now starting a raw vegan diet that he hopes will keep his back pain away. Because it’s anti-inflammatory, don’t you know.

He currently spends one hour per day in physical therapy, 75 minutes per day doing some sort of basketball training, and he spends the rest of the day resting and drinking/eating raw foods.

I kid you not. Go read the article.

How can any team draft this guy under these circumstances? Certainly not at 7.


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[thewraith]

Lots of ELITE athletes are now vegan, from Lewis Hamilton on down. They do it for better health and better performance I think people are realizing that whole foods and not processed foods are much better for you. They help you with digestion significantly and also in retaining nutrients

This is true. Best I've ever felt since being a kid was when my ex had me try going vegan and I did it for a year. My body really felt like when I was a kid. Its something everybody should try to see the difference. I see why he did it but still want Trae Young over him lol.

[RememberLu]

Lots of ELITE athletes are now vegan, from Lewis Hamilton on down. They do it for better health and better performance I think people are realizing that whole foods and not processed foods are much better for you. They help you with digestion significantly and also in retaining nutrients

There's nothing unhealthy about eating meat. Especially if it's very fresh and it's a short distance between slaughter and your plate. Processed meat like any processed food is unhealthy. You'll be far unhealthier if you eat a lot of bread and pasta than you would be if you ate a lot of meat.

I guess this isn't the best place to have a nutrition debate but yeah, count me in the unhappy camp to learn that he's some radical raw vegan. Doesn't sound healthy to me.

[Red Larrivee]

So if Porter's a ball-stopper like I've read, and LaVine seems like a ball-stopper as well... and Dunn needs the ball in his hands to facilitate... how the hell is that grouping going to work?

It probably won't.

There's nothing wrong with having multiple players who can score the ball, but you typically want to balance it with players who don't need to dominate the ball to create value.

Dunn can't shoot and is practically useless on offense without the ball. LaVine would actually be a good off-ball player, but seems more interested in playing off the dribble. Porter is known for being ball-needy. It's a lot to blend together on top of developing Markkanen's offensive potential. If you can get those four players to move the ball consistently, then it has a chance.

[Red Larrivee]

It's premature because he's incredibly young and has very little experience with high level coaching.

If you called Klay Thompson a ball stopper, you wouldn't be wrong. But he's a better player than anyone on this team.

Klay Thompson isn't a ball stopper though. He's primarily a catch/shoot player who will only ballstop if the matchup warrants it. Thompson is a very high IQ offensive player.

[Truebiscuit]

So if Porter's a ball-stopper like I've read, and LaVine seems like a ball-stopper as well... and Dunn needs the ball in his hands to facilitate... how the hell is that grouping going to work?

It probably won't.

There's nothing wrong with having multiple players who can score the ball, but you typically want to balance it with players who don't need to dominate the ball to create value.

Dunn can't shoot and is practically useless on offense without the ball. LaVine would actually be a good off-ball player, but seems more interested in playing off the dribble. Porter is known for being ball-needy. It's a lot to blend together on top of developing Markkanen's offensive potential. If you can get those four players to move the ball consistently, then it has a chance.

If somehow Dunn develops a jumper I think it has a chance, but I just think he does his best work with the ball in his hand so he can break down defenses. I think LaVine will figure out how he can get his moving off screens, etc, and not needing to play off the dribble as much.

I dunno, I'm clearly in the minority here but as of today if both MPJ and WCJ are there at #7, I'm taking WCJ.

[dumbell78]

So if you want to attack MPJ go ahead but don’t invite this garbage about diet, that’s a non sequitur and red herring .

Thing is he invited this in, not us. He said this diet is a reason for relieving his back pain. Forgive us if we are sceptical. Its unorthodox to suggest that going vegan can cure back pain. Smacks modern medicine in the mouth and has many scratching their heads. Perfectly justified to include in the evaluation of the kid.

[kulaz3000]

You realize that most doctors don’t have a goddamn clue about nutrition, receiving almost no training in their many years of med school and residency on the subject . There is nothing wrong with a vegan diet. It’s actually much healthier than a meat and dairy-based diet. Beans have far more protein and nutrients and fiber than meat, with no cholesterol. Vegans are far more healthier overall in society, by every measure, obesity, heart disease, cancer at Cetera. It’s been proven in study after study . People forget that large numbers of humanity can’t even digest dairy: That’s because it’s grown fluid to transform a baby cow to a 700 pound adult .

So if you want to attack MPJ go ahead but don’t invite this garbage about diet, that’s a non sequitur and red herring .

It's because people aren't educated in veganism.

It's funny because I've recently done a lot of a research on it, and though it's not something I want to get into at this point in my life, because hell, I enjoy eating meat and I'm not ashamed about it, but it is something I may consider transitioning to at some point.

At the end of the day, it's your body though, and if people don't want to live a certain way, then that's fine but judging people on their lifestyle, including their diet is ridiculous. And if you are going to ridicule it, you better do some research before hand before putting it down.

I think veganism and raw eating is quite awesome and I commend that people who do it, because quite frankly eating the 'regular' way is just so much more convenient and easy, which I think is half the problem and why it's difficult for a lot of people. You can't go out at midnight to get a quick vegan meal at most cities around the world.

[NecessaryEvil]

I hear the concerns on MPJ's back. I would still take him but Mohamed Bamba is #1 on my list regardless. I'm ready for him to enter into my life and make me happy for the next ten years. Or for however long it lasts. We can make it work

[Chi town]

MPJ as a vegan screams hurt and desperate to me. No HS kid ever goes vegan.

[nomorezorro]

the back thing with mpj is definitely concerning. if the top six is ayton/doncic/jjj/bagley/bamba/young, i'm becoming more enamored with the idea of trading down to the clippers 12/13 picks and doing a sort of spray and pray situation

draft something like miles bridges, zhaire smith and chandler hutchinson with 12/13/22. not picking a center seems kinda silly but you can mix and match all three of those dudes from 2-4 and see how they mesh with the rest of the roster.

trade portis + valentine + lopez + holiday for whatever assortment of future assets + lottery ticket young dudes you can put together. go into next season with a ****-it-let's-see-what-happens young guy roster that looks like:

dunn/payne
lavine/smith
bridges/hutchinson
markkanen/whoever
felicio/scrapheap dude/asik

i would say that bridges + markkanen is an intriguing small ball frontcourt combo going forward but it looks like he might be trying to slim down to stick on the wing instead? whatever none of this is ever going to actually happen anyway. submit post

[Truebiscuit]

Rumblings out there that Pax and friends have been hot for MPJ since they decided to flip Butler for a youth movement. If he's there for us to pick at #7, I'd be shocked if MPJ wasn't a Chicago Bull.

[Chi town]

Rumblings out there that Pax and friends have been hot for MPJ since they decided to flip Butler for a youth movement. If he's there for us to pick at #7, I'd be shocked if MPJ wasn't a Chicago Bull.

Link.?

[johnnyvann840]

Rumblings out there that Pax and friends have been hot for MPJ since they decided to flip Butler for a youth movement. If he's there for us to pick at #7, I'd be shocked if MPJ wasn't a Chicago Bull.

It wouldn't shock me if they passed. Go back to that lotto night interview with Pax and he says some things that were quite telling. "The medical issues are a very big thing. There are some things you can live with and some you can't take a risk with"... I'm paraphrasing but it was something to that effect and I immediately thought about MPJ and his situation being one of those that you cannot live with that high in the draft. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they have a doctor who gives him passing grades and says go for it.

I just find it really hard to believe that any team doctor is going to put his name on the line for it after listening to some orthopedic surgeons who specialize in the spine and neck talk about this condition. I've seen several state how difficult it is to make a prognosis for somebody who has had a microdiscetomy. That regardless of how it looks post surgery even months after, there is a good chance that back pain and nerve pain comes and goes in that patient. That this surgery is excellent for taking away leg and foot pain that is cause by a herniated lumbar disc but not so great at permanently getting rid of the back problem itself.

[johnnyvann840]

https://www.nba.com/bulls/video/teams/bulls/2018/05/16/2096122/1526440457645-fb-live-paxson-2096122

Listen at about the 7:30 mark.

[R3AL1TY]

It looks like MPJ is just marketing himself the best as he can for that early retirement check he will earn throughout his rookie contract. His back being 100% is appearing more and more unlikely.