The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[SuperSunsFan]

I am going to throw a name out there whose game I think resembles Ayton's a lot that I don't see people mentioning very often - Prime Pau Gasol. Ayton has a Karl Malone body but his game is actually very finesse and skill based, remember how dominating Gasol was partnering with Kobe. Gasol was just as average on defense as Ayton but the Lakers still won 2 championships with him being the starting center including beating the 2nd iteration of the SSOL suns.

[lilfishi22]

Hmmm.....so a former 16 year NBA Veteran, World Champion. Former NBA head coach and current head coach of the University of Alabam, Avery Johnson said Ayton is David Robinson with a jumper per Burns and Gambo.

What does Avery know? He only played 9 seasons with David Robinson and watched Ayton live once against his team...... must be like Ayton’s coach trying to get Ayton drafted and make himself look good. Wouldn’t trust what he says, because he sounds just like Ayton’s former coach and Jay Williams and Charles Barkley and Jay Bilas...those guys know nothing.

I wonder how much research these guys have actually done on Doncic. Euroleague and ACB isn't exactly widely broadcast here America while college basketball is one of the most broadcast and widely watched sporting events. Not saying these guys know nothing or that their opinions aren't valid but guaranteed guys like Barkley does the absolute minimum when it comes to research draft prospects.

It ain’t about Doncic, it’s about Ayton.

I'm talking about quotes from talking heads a general sense. I just really question how much these guys have looked into any prospects past the "big names" that's conveniently on TV. Hell, how often does a great prospect like JJJr or Mikal Bridges get talked about. How far down the prospect list has these guys even bothered to spend time doing research on? Maybe guys like Avery Johnson and Bilas has done a little more research as part of their job but it's really a lot of hot takes most of the time.

I think you quoted Stephen A yesterday, a guy who is somehow able to be across multiple sports. Even guys like Cowherd, I really don't care for their opinion whether it's about Ayton or Doncic or anyone because it's just not possible actually be across all these different sports to this level detail with the amount of time in the day. Sure they have assistants providing them with takes but man, if anyone takes these talking heads opinion with any sort of credence... Don't get me wrong, I'd watch a Stephen A or Max Kellerman (a boxing guy) or a Shannon Sharpe youtube clip now to just listen to their take on things I don't care as much about because it's entertaining but when it comes to things I do care about, I'd rather go to the experts.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

He was my #1 in that draft and I was high on McCollum too. Len ... what a waste of a five pick. Still makes me leery of moving Chriss and Bender unless it is a package for a star player.

This entire board wanted him!!!

Len?? Or CJ?

[lilfishi22]

For those who said it is easy for Euro player to adjust playing in the NBA, Childress unlearned everything about how to play in the NBA just by spending two years there. There are so many question marks about Doncic's game and quickness that many cards have to be falling into place for him to be the player his supporters anticipate he would become. For Ayton everything is simple, if he can improve his defense to a an acceptable level he would easily be an all star. For Ayton's detractors who argue that Ayton could easily be the next anthony Bennett or Oden or Okafor, Doncic can just as easily turn out to be Marko Milic, marko jaric, Rudy Fernandez, belinelli, Delfino or even Casey Jacobsen. Someone should go ask Casey how his lack of foot speed limited his potential to become a good NBA player.

It's not an easy transition for either guys. No matter how you look at it, the NBA is a whole different animal to Euroleague/college ball. It's rarely an easy transition no matter the prospect because no player comes in with a 100% complete game which means there's weaknesses to exploit. Even a consensus #1 pick and (imo) a better/more complete prospect than Ayton like Anthony Davis had a fairly pedestrian rookie season.

You talk about Ayton becoming an allstar like it's easy...yet you think the majority of Doncic's highly developed game won't translate?

[Frank Lee]

Man, that KAT contract is a cap killer. He and Book would chew up 50% of the space. Not sure now.


These super max deals are going to be hard to take. There are not that many super players. It seems a given that Book is getting his.... and he instantly will be overpaid

[bwgood77]

He was my #1 in that draft and I was high on McCollum too. Len ... what a waste of a five pick. Still makes me leery of moving Chriss and Bender unless it is a package for a star player.

This entire board wanted him!!!

Len?? Or CJ?

Oladipo

[jcsunsfan]

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how bad the Nash/JRich/Hedo/Warrick/Frye(Rlo) lineup was and reconsider your position.

Wings who can shoot, pass, drive and create are what's moving offenses nowadays. Nash was also a ball dominant PG who played in a system where he was the primary creator. If things didn't work, that's when guys like Hedo would try and create a shot. It's different personal in a different system that heavily relied on *one* guy who run that system. In a 3 win line up, you have 3 guys who are comfortable playing off the ball, all who can shoot (minus JJ right now) and then you'd have a Bender who can also shoot in that lineup. I would be very comfortable with a lineup of Booker/JJ/Doncic

You cannot plan a team around what is happening "these days." Those things change. Get the best, athletes with the best skills possible.

[jcsunsfan]

Man, that KAT contract is a cap killer. He and Book would chew up 50% of the space. Not sure now.


These super max deals are going to be hard to take. There are not that many super players. It seems a given that Book is getting his.... and he instantly will be overpaid

You are going to see a lot of teams trade their star player rather than pay the supermax. There are probably on five or six players in the league that should get it.

[lilfishi22]

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how bad the Nash/JRich/Hedo/Warrick/Frye(Rlo) lineup was and reconsider your position.

Wings who can shoot, pass, drive and create are what's moving offenses nowadays. Nash was also a ball dominant PG who played in a system where he was the primary creator. If things didn't work, that's when guys like Hedo would try and create a shot. It's different personal in a different system that heavily relied on *one* guy who run that system. In a 3 win line up, you have 3 guys who are comfortable playing off the ball, all who can shoot (minus JJ right now) and then you'd have a Bender who can also shoot in that lineup. I would be very comfortable with a lineup of Booker/JJ/Doncic

You cannot plan a team around what is happening "these days." Those things change. Get the best, athletes with the best skills possible.

You can't, you have to look forward into the future. What most experts are very confident isn't going away any time soon are perimeter initiators. There's a chance dominant bigs may make a come back on elite teams but I'm not willing to bet my money on that.

[lilfishi22]

This entire board wanted him!!!

Len?? Or CJ?

Oladipo

Ah right. Yeah I was a fan of his.

[lilfishi22]

Man, that KAT contract is a cap killer. He and Book would chew up 50% of the space. Not sure now.


These super max deals are going to be hard to take. There are not that many super players. It seems a given that Book is getting his.... and he instantly will be overpaid

It's an issue for sure. Supermax deals have been real hit and miss and those misses really hurt the team. Too many stars think they are deserving of a supermax deal but they should really only be for the proven superstars

[JMac1]

I wonder how much research these guys have actually done on Doncic. Euroleague and ACB isn't exactly widely broadcast here America while college basketball is one of the most broadcast and widely watched sporting events. Not saying these guys know nothing or that their opinions aren't valid but guaranteed guys like Barkley does the absolute minimum when it comes to research draft prospects.

It ain’t about Doncic, it’s about Ayton.

I'm talking about quotes from talking heads a general sense. I just really question how much these guys have looked into any prospects past the "big names" that's conveniently on TV. Hell, how often does a great prospect like JJJr or Mikal Bridges get talked about. How far down the prospect list has these guys even bothered to spend time doing research on? Maybe guys like Avery Johnson and Bilas has done a little more research as part of their job but it's really a lot of hot takes most of the time.

I think you quoted Stephen A yesterday, a guy who is somehow able to be across multiple sports. Even guys like Cowherd, I really don't care for their opinion whether it's about Ayton or Doncic or anyone because it's just not possible actually be across all these different sports to this level detail with the amount of time in the day. Sure they have assistants providing them with takes but man, if anyone takes these talking heads opinion with any sort of credence... Don't get me wrong, I'd watch a Stephen A or Max Kellerman (a boxing guy) or a Shannon Sharpe youtube clip now to just listen to their take on things I don't care as much about because it's entertaining but when it comes to things I do care about, I'd rather go to the experts.

Well they haven’t seen Doncic play live. Jay Bilas said that today on the Radio. That’s just the way it is. I understand your point though.

Yea, I get your point on the talking heads too: they get paid to be controversial. I think it’s Ayton 100 percent but they are playing this debate up like they always do. More drama to watch the draft.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Man, that KAT contract is a cap killer. He and Book would chew up 50% of the space. Not sure now.


These super max deals are going to be hard to take. There are not that many super players. It seems a given that Book is getting his.... and he instantly will be overpaid

From a contractual standpoint, Booker + Towns is tough. They will be getting their raises at the same time. Unless one takes a deal for less than four years, their raises will coincide throughout their careers.

Getting Ayton not only softens the blow, but allows for all of our prime talent to receive raises on a staggered basis. Ayton's max extension would come due in the same year TJ next becomes a free agent. After Booker, one of Chriss or Bender is likely to get a solid but less-than-max extension. The following year, Jackson will be up for his max. Ayton the year after.

I fully expect Sarver to back up the brinks truck when all these obligations become due. Great teams are expensive.

[Mulhollanddrive]

That's a bold reason not to trade for a star player his max comes too soon? If that is the level of veto then there's basically no one who is suitable.

[Waylay13]

Fair enough. I like JJJr and Prince but not enough to move down from #1

To me to trade the #1 is to spit in the face of the basketball gods that final blessed us with a pick. The very act of it would curse the Suns for years to come. While I do like Doncic I believe that the Suns are going to draft Ayton because of the value of picking the local guy (i.e. high school and college in Arizona). This will generate ticket sales and bring more people to following the Suns. In other words bring in more money. if you trade it even for a player like KAT it would cause a lot of backlash in the community.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Fair enough. I like JJJr and Prince but not enough to move down from #1

To me to trade the #1 is to spit in the face of the basketball gods that final blessed us with a pick. The very act of it would curse the Suns for years to come. While I do like Doncic I believe that the Suns are going to draft Ayton because of the value of picking the local guy (i.e. high school and college in Arizona). This will generate ticket sales and bring more people to following the Suns. In other words bring in more money. if you trade it even for a player like KAT it would cause a lot of backlash in the community.

I agree. I'd be pissed. I think Ayton's potential clearly exceeds Towns's. Plus, there's nothing better than a superstar who has only ever worn your team's jersey.

It's meant to be.

[SuperSunsFan]

Fair enough. I like JJJr and Prince but not enough to move down from #1

To me to trade the #1 is to spit in the face of the basketball gods that final blessed us with a pick. The very act of it would curse the Suns for years to come. While I do like Doncic I believe that the Suns are going to draft Ayton because of the value of picking the local guy (i.e. high school and college in Arizona). This will generate ticket sales and bring more people to following the Suns. In other words bring in more money. if you trade it even for a player like KAT it would cause a lot of backlash in the community.

totally agree, I don't like this indecisive waffling with the front office, such a display of cowardice trying to bail out because they couldn't decide which prospect to draft and lack the courage to take the potential blowback if a bust were selected.

[lilfishi22]

Fair enough. I like JJJr and Prince but not enough to move down from #1

To me to trade the #1 is to spit in the face of the basketball gods that final blessed us with a pick. The very act of it would curse the Suns for years to come. While I do like Doncic I believe that the Suns are going to draft Ayton because of the value of picking the local guy (i.e. high school and college in Arizona). This will generate ticket sales and bring more people to following the Suns. In other words bring in more money. if you trade it even for a player like KAT it would cause a lot of backlash in the community.

totally agree, I don't like this indecisive waffling with the front office, such a display of cowardice trying to bail out because they couldn't decide which prospect to draft and lack the courage to take the potential blowback if a bust were selected.

If you knew Ayton would be there at say #3 or #4, would you move down to take him and get an asset as well?

[Kerrsed]

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how bad the Nash/JRich/Hedo/Warrick/Frye(Rlo) lineup was and reconsider your position.

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how amazing the Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Green lineup is and solidify your opinion.

It's all about personnel.

I think Spoelstra said it best.....

“What if there was a team with great size but that size also had the agility and versatility to defend small? If you could absolutely punish a small speed team... the best way to beat Golden State is probably not to out-Golden State them.” - Erik Spoelstra

[Kerrsed]

AR was BW's guy, not mine!

I was high on Anthony Randolph? I honestly can't even remember.

Randolph was MY guy...Always drafted him in fantasy with my last pick, took him in that 'build-a-team' thing we did once, then every trade deadline/free agency I wanted him.

It will be inscribed on my tombstone "Anthony Randolph Has Upside"

To be fair, he was a lot of peoples guys, just not really mine.