Where is Bob Covington?

[76ciology]

BTW, i do think roco has good upside ahead of him. Im just saying that he’s not that good on defense in a playoff setting right now.

[gdog2004]

I know your narrative is Roco has been bad against the Celtics this year, and really he has. Problem is, he hasn't been the only one bad against the Celtics, there are several players who played worse against the Celtics. Roco isn't the type of guy that is going to carry you when others are struggling on offense. The Celtics are also the type of team that can drive on Roco.

Benny 1pt and Jojo have also struggled against the Celtics all year, and if they are playing bad, Roco will also. Only person that played well against them during the season was JJ, so they picked on him to take him out of his game (Great move by Stevens). Dario stepped up in the playoffs, but he also struggled shooting against them during the season. TJ started mainly (should've been earlier) cause he was the only one in the rotation that could guard Rozier.

Point is, your on Roco about how he performs against them, but he's not the only one that struggles against them. Roco isn't the type of player that will carry you on offense if others are struggling so if you want to say trade him for Kawhi fine, otherwise he's not as easy to replace as you seem to think.

Ben had decent games against them and some clunkers. Same with Jojo. Those guys are rookies though and the future of the franchise. Covington is a role player in his prime. He was unplayable in that Boston series. I don't care if a bunch of sportswriters and broadcasters selected him to first team all defense who don't watch him every game. Your not first team all defense if you cant guard any of the players assigned to you in the Celtics game. Rozier, Tatum even Brown and Horford(when he was on them) all scored on Covington like he wasn't there. Stop defending the guy likes hes a relative.
If we can sign Lebron or PG, great. Cov can be the 7th or 8th guy off the bench which on a really good team is about where he should be.

I don't think anyone has said Roco is irreplaceable. TJ started cause he could guard Rozier better, and since Rozier has limited athletic ability TJ could take care of him. TJ has gotten toasted against any PG that actually is athletic with size, thats been seen on several occasions, then we don't have anyone on the team that can guard that.....other than Fultz. A team with 2 really good guards have always been a problem for us, thats no secret.

As we sit right now, Roco starts cause we don't have anyone better than him to play his spot. Just so happens he has a bad matchup against the Celtics, but most of the rest of the NBA he does a good job. Now you sign Bron or PG, then you can make a decision about whether to start Roco or not....but guess what, they haven't signed and we don't know if they will.

Dogging Roco is fruitless, unless you think we can start TJ for 82 games, yeah right. Get someone better, then you can rant.

Well, you are saying that a guard like Rozier with limited athletic ability, Roco could not check. To me, that's not an all league defender. Look at the rest of the 1st team all defense guys, THOSE guys are great one on one defenders. Look at the list from the last 2 years
Jrue Holiday
Anthony Davis
Robert Covington
Victor Oladipo
Rudy Gobert
Chris Paul
Patrick Beverley
Kawhi Leonard
Draymond Green

I dont know about Oladipo but as far as the rest of those guys, Covington is certainly not at the same level playing one on one defense.
Rozier is not James Harden and he shouldnt be able to abuse Covington like he did.
Now moving on from that, yes I agree, the team starts Roco because there isn't anyone else better on the bench. Although, TJ really seems to respond when given the opportunity. I'm not so sure he ISN'T a valid option to start. A lot of that depends on Markelle. Also if we can get our hands on Mikal Bridges I'm not so sure that doesn't plant Covington on the bench.
I think Covington and Dario are most likely to be moved in a trade (if they go that way).

[TTP]

Ben had decent games against them and some clunkers. Same with Jojo. Those guys are rookies though and the future of the franchise. Covington is a role player in his prime. He was unplayable in that Boston series. I don't care if a bunch of sportswriters and broadcasters selected him to first team all defense who don't watch him every game. Your not first team all defense if you cant guard any of the players assigned to you in the Celtics game. Rozier, Tatum even Brown and Horford(when he was on them) all scored on Covington like he wasn't there. Stop defending the guy likes hes a relative.
If we can sign Lebron or PG, great. Cov can be the 7th or 8th guy off the bench which on a really good team is about where he should be.

I don't think anyone has said Roco is irreplaceable. TJ started cause he could guard Rozier better, and since Rozier has limited athletic ability TJ could take care of him. TJ has gotten toasted against any PG that actually is athletic with size, thats been seen on several occasions, then we don't have anyone on the team that can guard that.....other than Fultz. A team with 2 really good guards have always been a problem for us, thats no secret.

As we sit right now, Roco starts cause we don't have anyone better than him to play his spot. Just so happens he has a bad matchup against the Celtics, but most of the rest of the NBA he does a good job. Now you sign Bron or PG, then you can make a decision about whether to start Roco or not....but guess what, they haven't signed and we don't know if they will.

Dogging Roco is fruitless, unless you think we can start TJ for 82 games, yeah right. Get someone better, then you can rant.

Well, you are saying that a guard like Rozier with limited athletic ability, Roco could not check. To me, that's not an all league defender. Look at the rest of the 1st team all defense guys, THOSE guys are great one on one defenders. Look at the list from the last 2 years
Jrue Holiday
Anthony Davis
Robert Covington
Victor Oladipo
Rudy Gobert
Chris Paul
Patrick Beverley
Kawhi Leonard
Draymond Green

I dont know about Oladipo but as far as the rest of those guys, Covington is certainly not at the same level playing one on one defense.
Rozier is not James Harden and he shouldnt be able to abuse Covington like he did.
Now moving on from that, yes I agree, the team starts Roco because there isn't anyone else better on the bench. Although, TJ really seems to respond when given the opportunity. I'm not so sure he ISN'T a valid option to start. A lot of that depends on Markelle. Also if we can get our hands on Mikal Bridges I'm not so sure that doesn't plant Covington on the bench.
I think Covington and Dario are most likely to be moved in a trade (if they go that way).

Not surprising to me that the guy that thinks players are bound to one position also overvalues 1 on 1 defense and undervalues team defense (which is almost certainly more important). However, let's consider just 1 on 1 defense for a second.

You don't spend the entire game guarding your opposing matchup, especially in the Sixers system where our guys are frequently switching. Smart teams take advantage of this and try to put players into mismatches. A player that can't be put into many mismatches suddenly becomes very valuable.

Covington may or may not be worse at guarding SFs 1 on 1 than Chris Paul is at defending PGs 1 on 1. However, Covington is almost certainly better at handling all five positions 1 on 1 than Chris Paul (and many of the guys on that list).

I also don't think you don't understand everything that goes into 1 on 1 defense. Deflecting the ball before it gets to your man or fighting through screens and denying the opportunity for a pass is part of 1 on 1 defense on your man. Covington is exceptional at both of those.

[gdog2004]

I don't think anyone has said Roco is irreplaceable. TJ started cause he could guard Rozier better, and since Rozier has limited athletic ability TJ could take care of him. TJ has gotten toasted against any PG that actually is athletic with size, thats been seen on several occasions, then we don't have anyone on the team that can guard that.....other than Fultz. A team with 2 really good guards have always been a problem for us, thats no secret.

As we sit right now, Roco starts cause we don't have anyone better than him to play his spot. Just so happens he has a bad matchup against the Celtics, but most of the rest of the NBA he does a good job. Now you sign Bron or PG, then you can make a decision about whether to start Roco or not....but guess what, they haven't signed and we don't know if they will.

Dogging Roco is fruitless, unless you think we can start TJ for 82 games, yeah right. Get someone better, then you can rant.

Well, you are saying that a guard like Rozier with limited athletic ability, Roco could not check. To me, that's not an all league defender. Look at the rest of the 1st team all defense guys, THOSE guys are great one on one defenders. Look at the list from the last 2 years
Jrue Holiday
Anthony Davis
Robert Covington
Victor Oladipo
Rudy Gobert
Chris Paul
Patrick Beverley
Kawhi Leonard
Draymond Green

I dont know about Oladipo but as far as the rest of those guys, Covington is certainly not at the same level playing one on one defense.
Rozier is not James Harden and he shouldnt be able to abuse Covington like he did.
Now moving on from that, yes I agree, the team starts Roco because there isn't anyone else better on the bench. Although, TJ really seems to respond when given the opportunity. I'm not so sure he ISN'T a valid option to start. A lot of that depends on Markelle. Also if we can get our hands on Mikal Bridges I'm not so sure that doesn't plant Covington on the bench.
I think Covington and Dario are most likely to be moved in a trade (if they go that way).

Not surprising to me that the guy that thinks players are bound to one position also overvalues 1 on 1 defense and undervalues team defense (which is almost certainly more important). However, let's consider just 1 on 1 defense for a second.

You don't spend the entire game guarding your opposing matchup, especially in the Sixers system where our guys are frequently switching. Smart teams take advantage of this and try to put players into mismatches. A player that can't be put into many mismatches suddenly becomes very valuable.

Covington may or may not be worse at guarding SFs 1 on 1 than Chris Paul is at defending PGs 1 on 1. However, Covington is almost certainly better at handling all five positions 1 on 1 than Chris Paul (and many of the guys on that list).

I also don't think you don't understand everything that goes into 1 on 1 defense. Deflecting the ball before it gets to your man or fighting through screens and denying the opportunity for a pass is part of 1 on 1 defense on your man. Covington is exceptional at both of those.

Pretty much every position the Celtics have thrown at Covington he got owned on so there goes that argument. Your running out of excuses for him. I don't think you recognize the importance of one on one defense at the wing position. Those guys are game changers on at both sides of the floor(Gobert and Beverley not so much on O but definitely on D).
Covington is a complimentary role player.

[TTP]

Well, you are saying that a guard like Rozier with limited athletic ability, Roco could not check. To me, that's not an all league defender. Look at the rest of the 1st team all defense guys, THOSE guys are great one on one defenders. Look at the list from the last 2 years
Jrue Holiday
Anthony Davis
Robert Covington
Victor Oladipo
Rudy Gobert
Chris Paul
Patrick Beverley
Kawhi Leonard
Draymond Green

I dont know about Oladipo but as far as the rest of those guys, Covington is certainly not at the same level playing one on one defense.
Rozier is not James Harden and he shouldnt be able to abuse Covington like he did.
Now moving on from that, yes I agree, the team starts Roco because there isn't anyone else better on the bench. Although, TJ really seems to respond when given the opportunity. I'm not so sure he ISN'T a valid option to start. A lot of that depends on Markelle. Also if we can get our hands on Mikal Bridges I'm not so sure that doesn't plant Covington on the bench.
I think Covington and Dario are most likely to be moved in a trade (if they go that way).

Not surprising to me that the guy that thinks players are bound to one position also overvalues 1 on 1 defense and undervalues team defense (which is almost certainly more important). However, let's consider just 1 on 1 defense for a second.

You don't spend the entire game guarding your opposing matchup, especially in the Sixers system where our guys are frequently switching. Smart teams take advantage of this and try to put players into mismatches. A player that can't be put into many mismatches suddenly becomes very valuable.

Covington may or may not be worse at guarding SFs 1 on 1 than Chris Paul is at defending PGs 1 on 1. However, Covington is almost certainly better at handling all five positions 1 on 1 than Chris Paul (and many of the guys on that list).

I also don't think you don't understand everything that goes into 1 on 1 defense. Deflecting the ball before it gets to your man or fighting through screens and denying the opportunity for a pass is part of 1 on 1 defense on your man. Covington is exceptional at both of those.

Pretty much every position the Celtics have thrown at Covington he got owned on so there goes that argument. Your running out of excuses for him. I don't think you recognize the importance of one on one defense at the wing position. Those guys are game changers on at both sides of the floor(Gobert and Beverley not so much on O but definitely on D).
Covington is a complimentary role player.

Lol that you consider it intelligent to ignore ~300 games of evidence in favor of 5.

The words you were looking for are "you're" and "complementary". Look it up.

[Bum Adebayo]

Well, I'm going to value playoff games way more than RS games, sorry about that. He is NOT a starter caliber player on a championship team. He is a streaky shooter with 1on1 weakness on D, which gets more exploited on playoffs, therefore, he is better suited coming off the bench, if his shot is off then you bench him.

[gdog2004]

Not surprising to me that the guy that thinks players are bound to one position also overvalues 1 on 1 defense and undervalues team defense (which is almost certainly more important). However, let's consider just 1 on 1 defense for a second.

You don't spend the entire game guarding your opposing matchup, especially in the Sixers system where our guys are frequently switching. Smart teams take advantage of this and try to put players into mismatches. A player that can't be put into many mismatches suddenly becomes very valuable.

Covington may or may not be worse at guarding SFs 1 on 1 than Chris Paul is at defending PGs 1 on 1. However, Covington is almost certainly better at handling all five positions 1 on 1 than Chris Paul (and many of the guys on that list).

I also don't think you don't understand everything that goes into 1 on 1 defense. Deflecting the ball before it gets to your man or fighting through screens and denying the opportunity for a pass is part of 1 on 1 defense on your man. Covington is exceptional at both of those.

Pretty much every position the Celtics have thrown at Covington he got owned on so there goes that argument. Your running out of excuses for him. I don't think you recognize the importance of one on one defense at the wing position. Those guys are game changers on at both sides of the floor(Gobert and Beverley not so much on O but definitely on D).
Covington is a complimentary role player.

Lol that you consider it intelligent to ignore ~300 games of evidence in favor of 5.

The words you were looking for are "you're" and "complementary". Look it up.

Correcting grammar on a internet forum is so lame but there's always one. Playoff games against the team to beat in the East matter, but that seems to be lost on you. Sad.

[kingofthecourt67]

Well, I'm going to value playoff games way more than RS games, sorry about that. He is NOT a starter caliber player on a championship team. He is a streaky shooter with 1on1 weakness on D, which gets more exploited on playoffs, therefore, he is better suited coming off the bench, if his shot is off then you bench him.

In that case, Ben Simmons isn't a starting caliber point guard either.

[sixerswillrule]

Covington is similar to Trevor Ariza and Danny Green. He is a starter caliber player for a championship contender and that's what he'll be for this team as a championship contender. The 5 games against Boston don't change that. There is no such thing as a team with each starter being top 10 at their position. Covington is easily a top 15 SF and I'd love to see someone argue otherwise.

[76ciology]

BTW, i do think roco has good upside ahead of him. Im just saying that he’s not that good on defense in a playoff setting right now.

Scorers shot 8% higher FG% when they are defended by Roco in the playoffs. That is worse than Beli and JJ. And quite frankly, even if that’s not worse that Jj and Beli, that’s more disappointing considering defense should be something he should be relied on.

In regular season, they score very slightly above their average at +.4% diff%

As team defender, no doubt that he’s elite. But he’s not a good defender on ISO or locking in scorers. Specially if the standard is an all defensive first team.

And there’s definitely room for improvement with any weakness he has right now. So dont get me wrong.

I wouldn’t sell Roco cheap and do think he’s a very valuable player for all teams from lotto to contenders like Rox or GSW.

[76ciology]

Analytics is heavy on impact. The +/-, RPMs and other stuffs. Instead on an individual, how much a person makes a team better on offense and defense is whats valued.

But in the play-offs, it just turns into an isolation scoring/defense contest. With how teams are playing and how the refs are calling the games it turns into 90s basketball when RPM wasn’t invented (i’d guess) and we put value on a player’s offense on ppg and how good a player can score on ISO.

[youngcrev]

BTW, i do think roco has good upside ahead of him. Im just saying that he’s not that good on defense in a playoff setting right now.

Scorers shot 8% higher FG% when they are defended by Roco in the playoffs. That is worse than Beli and JJ. And quite frankly, even if that’s not worse that Jj and Beli, that’s more disappointing considering defense should be something he should be relied on.

In regular season, they score very slightly above their average at +.4% diff%

As team defender, no doubt that he’s elite. But he’s not a good defender on ISO or locking in scorers. Specially if the standard is an all defensive first team.

And there’s definitely room for improvement with any weakness he has right now. So dont get me wrong.

I wouldn’t sell Roco cheap and do think he’s a very valuable player for all teams from lotto to contenders like Rox or GSW.

I think that's a function of him being forced into tough matchups due to our lineup. Last year opposing players were at -2.6 when he was guarding wings exclusively. This year he was basically asked to take the toughest perimeter matchup at all times so that they could hide JJ and let Ben freelance. He's definitely not a lockdown man defender, but he's not a bad one either.

In response to your comment about playoff basketball, I think his versatility is a huge advantage with teams trying to exploit matchups when teams try to switch on everything.

[76ciology]

BTW, i do think roco has good upside ahead of him. Im just saying that he’s not that good on defense in a playoff setting right now.

Scorers shot 8% higher FG% when they are defended by Roco in the playoffs. That is worse than Beli and JJ. And quite frankly, even if that’s not worse that Jj and Beli, that’s more disappointing considering defense should be something he should be relied on.

In regular season, they score very slightly above their average at +.4% diff%

As team defender, no doubt that he’s elite. But he’s not a good defender on ISO or locking in scorers. Specially if the standard is an all defensive first team.

And there’s definitely room for improvement with any weakness he has right now. So dont get me wrong.

I wouldn’t sell Roco cheap and do think he’s a very valuable player for all teams from lotto to contenders like Rox or GSW.

I think that's a function of him being forced into tough matchups due to our lineup. Last year opposing players were at -2.6 when he was guarding wings exclusively. This year he was basically asked to take the toughest perimeter matchup at all times so that they could hide JJ and let Ben freelance. He's definitely not a lockdown man defender, but he's not a bad one either.

In response to your comment about playoff basketball, I think his versatility is a huge advantage with teams trying to exploit matchups when teams try to switch on everything.

His upside is great on the defensive end but I’m more talking about this year’s performance and more specifically the Celts series when for me is the real litmus test for playoff basketball.

He needs to work on his individual defense. Rozier kept blowing past him and horford didn’t had a tough time when he switched unto him. Tatum had an easy time scoring at his all NBA first defense. It may be low sample size and i can be wrong, but definitely he’s not yet there as an individual defender nor does it reflect his all NBA first team defense.

There are 3 type of defenders. The locked down defenders, the gamblers and those who can do both. Right now, Roco is a gambler. He constantly go for deflections. As you get experience you’ll know when to stay in front of your man and make it tough for him and when to gamble. He will get there.

[youngcrev]

Scorers shot 8% higher FG% when they are defended by Roco in the playoffs. That is worse than Beli and JJ. And quite frankly, even if that’s not worse that Jj and Beli, that’s more disappointing considering defense should be something he should be relied on.

In regular season, they score very slightly above their average at +.4% diff%

As team defender, no doubt that he’s elite. But he’s not a good defender on ISO or locking in scorers. Specially if the standard is an all defensive first team.

And there’s definitely room for improvement with any weakness he has right now. So dont get me wrong.

I wouldn’t sell Roco cheap and do think he’s a very valuable player for all teams from lotto to contenders like Rox or GSW.

I think that's a function of him being forced into tough matchups due to our lineup. Last year opposing players were at -2.6 when he was guarding wings exclusively. This year he was basically asked to take the toughest perimeter matchup at all times so that they could hide JJ and let Ben freelance. He's definitely not a lockdown man defender, but he's not a bad one either.

In response to your comment about playoff basketball, I think his versatility is a huge advantage with teams trying to exploit matchups when teams try to switch on everything.

His upside is great on the defensive end but I’m more talking about this year’s performance and more specifically the Celts series when for me is the real litmus test for playoff basketball.

He needs to work on his individual defense. Rozier kept blowing past him and horford didn’t had a tough time when he switched unto him. Tatum had an easy time scoring at his all NBA first defense. It may be low sample size and i can be wrong, but definitely he’s not yet there as an individual defender nor does it reflect his all NBA first team defense.

There are 3 type of defenders. The locked down defenders, the gamblers and those who can do both. Right now, Roco is a gambler. He constantly go for deflections. As you get experience you’ll know when to stay in front of your man and make it tough for him and when to gamble. He will get there.

I wouldn't really consider him a gambler. He gets blown by a lot, but he generally pushes guys towards help and chases well/gets a hand in from behind. I think he does about as well as any forward would when asked to defend PGs consistently.

Rozier is a tough matchup for bigger players. He's extremely quick. I don't really recall him getting switched onto Horford other than that one inbounds play.

For the most part, he's not a guy teams will look to exploit on the defensive end. If he's your weak link defensively, you're in a really good spot. He could stand to improve from man to man perspective, but I'm far more worried about improvement on the other end when it comes to RoCo.

[76ciology]

I think that's a function of him being forced into tough matchups due to our lineup. Last year opposing players were at -2.6 when he was guarding wings exclusively. This year he was basically asked to take the toughest perimeter matchup at all times so that they could hide JJ and let Ben freelance. He's definitely not a lockdown man defender, but he's not a bad one either.

In response to your comment about playoff basketball, I think his versatility is a huge advantage with teams trying to exploit matchups when teams try to switch on everything.

His upside is great on the defensive end but I’m more talking about this year’s performance and more specifically the Celts series when for me is the real litmus test for playoff basketball.

He needs to work on his individual defense. Rozier kept blowing past him and horford didn’t had a tough time when he switched unto him. Tatum had an easy time scoring at his all NBA first defense. It may be low sample size and i can be wrong, but definitely he’s not yet there as an individual defender nor does it reflect his all NBA first team defense.

There are 3 type of defenders. The locked down defenders, the gamblers and those who can do both. Right now, Roco is a gambler. He constantly go for deflections. As you get experience you’ll know when to stay in front of your man and make it tough for him and when to gamble. He will get there.

I wouldn't really consider him a gambler. He gets blown by a lot, but he generally pushes guys towards help and chases well/gets a hand in from behind. I think he does about as well as any forward would when asked to defend PGs consistently.

Rozier is a tough matchup for bigger players. He's extremely quick. I don't really recall him getting switched onto Horford other than that one inbounds play.

For the most part, he's not a guy teams will look to exploit on the defensive end. If he's your weak link defensively, you're in a really good spot. He could stand to improve from man to man perspective, but I'm far more worried about improvement on the other end when it comes to RoCo.

Agree with most you said.

Offensively, his upside there has a lot of luck involved. But defensively, he can work to reach that upside.

My point is there are a lot of things for him to improve on D. Than having the mindset that he can just focus on his offense for he’s already great on D.

[Arsenal]

The real problem on defense is that we had to put Covington on Rozier because we couldn't trust Redick on him. If we replace Redick with someone who is better on D and can defend the POA well, then Covington can lock down wings and PF's like he should be doing.

All this b!tching about RoCo is getting tiresome. We lost the Boston series because of Ben Simmons, not because of RoCo. If we played TJ instead of Ben we would have won the series. TJ handled Rozier whenever he played, while Simmons got exploited.

[rzzzzz]

i'm hoping we get Mikal in the draft. looks he could step right in. some other interesting looking forwards as well. unless we manage to get both Lebron and Leonard, in which case, we can live with who we give up in trade for the latter.

[WMDman]

i still like bob

[ivysixer2000]

The real problem on defense is that we had to put Covington on Rozier because we couldn't trust Redick on him. If we replace Redick with someone who is better on D and can defend the POA well, then Covington can lock down wings and PF's like he should be doing.

All this b!tching about RoCo is getting tiresome. We lost the Boston series because of Ben Simmons, not because of RoCo. If we played TJ instead of Ben we would have won the series. TJ handled Rozier whenever he played, while Simmons got exploited.

Well it is tiresome, and Benny 1pt played like doo doo, but thats on the coach to make the adjustment sooner. I do wish people would stop looking at the players, it was an easy adjustment. We lost that series in the first 5 mins of the first game when BB didn't see he couldn't guard Rozier with Roco or Ben.

Rozier is limited athletically but he is a quick midget, Ben and Roco are both like 6'10" and JJ is our only starter near his height and JJ can't guard my mother. If you want to blame anyone, blame BB for not seeing it in the first 5 mins of game one. TJ, and guess what, Fultz could've helped on D but someone was scared to play them immediately. We are fortunately able to make that adjustment, but we just didn't do it.

We got beat by putting JJ Redick on Tatum and Roco's tall ass on Terry freakin Rozier. Sorry thats just plain dumb, and as long as you guys are ignoring the elephant in the room you will be in the dark. BB was horrible in that series.

[youngcrev]

Agree with most you said.

Offensively, his upside there has a lot of luck involved. But defensively, he can work to reach that upside.

My point is there are a lot of things for him to improve on D. Than having the mindset that he can just focus on his offense for he’s already great on D.

I'm not sure I see much more upside on the defensive end beyond what he's already giving us (I mean... We are talking about a guy that just made first team all defense). He's got good length and great hands on D, but I'm not sure if he has the foot speed or mentality to be an elite man to man defender.

The offensive end, there's a ton of things for him to work on. I assume you are referring to the variability that comes along with relying on 3 pointers when you say his offensive improvement is luck based, but clearly he could stand to get better off the bounce.