The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Revived]

Ayton defensively I think will be similar to Brook Lopez. He may be able to alter some shots simply because of his size but doesn’t actually give effort to be a difference maker.

Offensively, Lopez has a better post game than Ayton but Ayton definitely has better range shooting wise. Even though Lopez has actually improved his jumper quite a bit as well.

I’m sure the Ayton stans will vehemently disagree but a more athletic Brook Lopez isn’t that far off a comparison for Ayton imo.

[Revived]

I hope we don't draft Ayton.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/05/29/drafting-deandre-ayton-huge-risk-suns/

You think New Orleans would sit Davis or Philly Embiid?

This is a silly comparison because both Davis and Embiid are elite level defenders while the knock on Ayton is that he couldn’t defend a chair if his life depended on it.

[Villalobos]

We look at the teams that have done so well with guards/wings that we forget to look at the teams that have failed as well.

Toronto and Portland’s best players are their perimeter players. They had such great regular seasons and exceeded expectations. They were both favorites going into their series. Both teams got swept.

Both Toronto and Portland’s rosters haven’t seen much player turnover either. They’ve had time to play together and gel, but now, one has to wonder if they’ll need to make major changes to get to that next level.

I’m not even trying to put down the idea of drafting Doncic. I just hate this argument that we should do it because it’s the way things are trending. I don’t think it’s certain that it’s a formula for success. Even though I like both Ayton and Doncic, watching Houston miss 20+ straight 3pt attempts and relying on their offensively-challenged center to get them easy buckets keeps me firmly in the Ayton court.

one big difference from Lowry/Derozen that's crucial in the playoffs is I don't think Doncic is mentally weak. He lives for the big moment. They shrink from it. Year after year that team gets better in the regular season when there's little pressure. If those two were mentally strong they'd be a real contender imo

[MrMiyagi]

I hope we don't draft Ayton.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/05/29/drafting-deandre-ayton-huge-risk-suns/

You think New Orleans would sit Davis orj Philly Embiid?

This is a silly comparison because both Davis and Embiid are elite level defenders while the knock on Ayton is that he couldn’t defend a chair if his life depended on it.

You clearly haven't watched him play. While he is not "elite", he's not a bad defender.

People are overstating each of these two players flaws, and it's getting stupid.

[jcsunsfan]

I hope we don't draft Ayton.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/05/29/drafting-deandre-ayton-huge-risk-suns/

You think New Orleans would sit Davis or Philly Embiid?

This is a silly comparison because both Davis and Embiid are elite level defenders while the knock on Ayton is that he couldn’t defend a chair if his life depended on it.

You lose all credibility with that statement. Ayton was a very good defender one on one. He had some difficulty with switches. This is such a huge exaggeration its silly.

[Revived]

You think New Orleans would sit Davis or Philly Embiid?

This is a silly comparison because both Davis and Embiid are elite level defenders while the knock on Ayton is that he couldn’t defend a chair if his life depended on it.

You lose all credibility with that statement. Ayton was a very good defender one on one. He had some difficulty with switches. This is such a huge exaggeration its silly.

No he wasn’t. Only clips or stats of him having done “very good” in one on one is against bigs that will never play professional basketball in their lives and likely wouldn’t even be good enough to be make it in Europe or elsewhere. He showed good defense against schools like CSUB and I can’t remember one half decent basketball prospect to come from there.

[Puff]

I hope we don't draft Ayton.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/05/29/drafting-deandre-ayton-huge-risk-suns/

The fact is, centers aren’t playable in the playoffs anymore. That is why the Warriors, Rockets, and Celtics have all made it to the conference playoffs. Both teams are willing to go small ball and attack other team’s bigs, scoring at will.

You must have missed the rockets game 7, bet they would have loved to have Ayton

I watched and I expect they could have used Doncic as well. They only had one playmaker. Without Chris Paul the rest of team other than Harden were role players. Who do you think would have got the ball to Ayton if they could not get it to Capela?

Bottom line: I would trust Igor's decision prior to McDonough.

If Igor wants Doncic, you just have to draft him. If he prefers Ayton then you take him. If he prefers Bamba you take him.

It is that simple. At this point I trust his judgement over anyone else in the Suns organization.

[thamadkant]

Ayton defensively I think will be similar to Brook Lopez. He may be able to alter some shots simply because of his size but doesn’t actually give effort to be a difference maker.

Offensively, Lopez has a better post game than Ayton but Ayton definitely has better range shooting wise. Even though Lopez has actually improved his jumper quite a bit as well.

I’m sure the Ayton stans will vehemently disagree but a more athletic Brook Lopez isn’t that far off a comparison for Ayton imo.

A more athletic Brook Lopez would be an all star and a very hard cover for small ball players.


Suns just need to have 5 mobile players... No plodders or unathleletic wings that will get beaten in both ends.

[thamadkant]

I hope we don't draft Ayton.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/05/29/drafting-deandre-ayton-huge-risk-suns/

You must have missed the rockets game 7, bet they would have loved to have Ayton

I watched and I expect they could have used Doncic as well. They only had one playmaker. Without Chris Paul the rest of team other than Harden were role players. Who do you think would have got the ball to Ayton if they could not get it to Capela?

Bottom line: I would trust Igor's decision prior to McDonough.

If Igor wants Doncic, you just have to draft him. If he prefers Ayton then you take him. If he prefers Bamba you take him.

It is that simple. At this point I trust his judgement over anyone else in the Suns organization.

Coaches come and go.


If coaches get their way many stars would have been traded already.

[Superhuman]

I hope we don't draft Ayton.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/05/29/drafting-deandre-ayton-huge-risk-suns/

You must have missed the rockets game 7, bet they would have loved to have Ayton

I watched and I expect they could have used Doncic as well. They only had one playmaker. Without Chris Paul the rest of team other than Harden were role players. Who do you think would have got the ball to Ayton if they could not get it to Capela?

Bottom line: I would trust Igor's decision prior to McDonough.

If Igor wants Doncic, you just have to draft him. If he prefers Ayton then you take him. If he prefers Bamba you take him.

It is that simple. At this point I trust his judgement over anyone else in the Suns organization.

Even if they had Chris Paul they still would've lost because Warriors still would've clamped up their 3 pt shots. When the score is close and your threes aren't falling and you just need points to stay alive, throwing it down to a 7 footer in the post is a pretty damn good option. Not only can Ayton get his, but he has the skill to pass out of double teams to wide open 3 pt shooters.

And Mcdonough is the general manager. He chooses who to draft and Igor's job is to coach said draftee and team.

[thamadkant]

I like Ayton and I think Doncic as a big forward has merit...

But if I really wanted the Suns to maximise this pick and have 5 cornerstone players by 2020.... I would trade Pick 1 for 2 top 6 picks....

I want JJJ and MPJ

And sign a veteran PG.


So you have

C: JJJ
F: MPJ
F: Jackson
G: Booker
G: 3D point guard

[Villalobos]

good chance Rockets beat Dubs one of those two games with CP3 because not only is he an invaluable playmaker (and defender) he's another threat from 3. if he was knocking down his shots (like in the other games) it puts less pressure on the role players choking

can't really say warriors were just clamping their 3s in game 7 and that's why they won when they tried to do that the whole series and were losing with a healthy CP3.

[MrMiyagi]

I like Ayton and I think Doncic as a big forward has merit...

But if I really wanted the Suns to maximise this pick and have 5 cornerstone players by 2020.... I would trade Pick 1 for 2 top 6 picks....

I want JJJ and MPJ

And sign a veteran PG.


So you have

C: JJJ
F: MPJ
F: Jackson
G: Booker
G: 3D point guard

So you'd take a shot at 1 sure thing (Ayton or Doncic) for two very risky players?

[jcsunsfan]

This is a silly comparison because both Davis and Embiid are elite level defenders while the knock on Ayton is that he couldn’t defend a chair if his life depended on it.

You lose all credibility with that statement. Ayton was a very good defender one on one. He had some difficulty with switches. This is such a huge exaggeration its silly.

No he wasn’t. Only clips or stats of him having done “very good” in one on one is against bigs that will never play professional basketball in their lives and likely wouldn’t even be good enough to be make it in Europe or elsewhere. He showed good defense against schools like CSUB and I can’t remember one half decent basketball prospect to come from there.

What? No one he played against was a professional! The same is true for every player in the draft. And the pros that Doncic played against are not NBA level pros except last summer. If you want to say stupid stuff like "he can't defend a chair" be my guest, but you destroy your own credibility.

[Revived]

You lose all credibility with that statement. Ayton was a very good defender one on one. He had some difficulty with switches. This is such a huge exaggeration its silly.

No he wasn’t. Only clips or stats of him having done “very good” in one on one is against bigs that will never play professional basketball in their lives and likely wouldn’t even be good enough to be make it in Europe or elsewhere. He showed good defense against schools like CSUB and I can’t remember one half decent basketball prospect to come from there.

What? No one he played against was a professional! The same is true for every player in the draft. And the pros that Doncic played against are not NBA level pros except last summer. If you want to say stupid stuff like "he can't defend a chair" be my guest, but you destroy your own credibility.

Dude Doncic played against pros! He actually plays in a professional league! Hell some of the guys he plays against since he was 15 years old were some ex NBA players and he’s played alongside NBA players as well.

And I said guys who Ayton played so well defensively against won’t ever play professional basketball. It’s pretty obvious that I’m talking about after their done with college.

You need to read the replies thoroughly before replying.

[Superhuman]

good chance Rockets beat Dubs one of those two games with CP3 because not only is he an invaluable playmaker (and defender) he's another threat from 3. if he was knocking down his shots (like in the other games) it puts less pressure on the role players choking

can't really say warriors were just clamping their 3s in game 7 and that's why they won when they tried to do that the whole series and were losing with a healthy CP3.

I agree, they would still have a good chance but if Warriors had a healthy Iggy and Rockets a healthy CP3, Warriors would still be winning game 6 and 7. Iguodala didn't play games 4-7. And Iggy is a big cog in their team, Warriors game 1-3 had a starting lineup of Curry/Thompson/Iguodala/Durant/Green. Games 4 and 5 Rockets only won by 3 and 4 respectively. So they barely won those games even tho Warriors were down a starter.

We shouldn't be looking to the Warriors/Rockets as some blueprint to build a team. Instead, we should build the team to be the best team possible with the players available. If there was a clear cut Curry/Durant/Harden type generational guard or wing then sure, but Doncic isn't. We need a center. 85 yr old Chandler/Chriss/Big Sauce aren't cutting it. And no way we land any of the available free agent centers.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah, Marquese averaged like 13 points and 5 whole rebounds...

Granted he did it as a young freshman but still, by college standards, not really dominant

He was literally one of the top freshmen in the program's history. He finished the year shooting 44% from 3 in his last 15 games. He was really good in college. Had he returned he is likely pre-season 1st team all conference.

He was productive but to say he dominated is a stretch. The guy averaged one 3PM per game in the last 15 games.

[SuperSunsFan]

I no longer resist the idea of us drafting Doncic but i reserve the right to come back and roast die hard Doncic fan people and unleash the cruelest profanities on them if we drafts Doncic and he turns out to be a complete bust Austin Rivers 2.0 while Ayton take the league by storm like the second coming of Olajuwon.

[lilfishi22]

I no longer resist the idea of us drafting Doncic but i reserve the right to come back and roast die hard Doncic fan people and unleash the cruelest profanities on them if we drafts Doncic and he turns out to be a complete bust Austin Rivers 2.0 while Ayton take the league by storm like the second coming of Olajuwon.

It's gonna be the same if Ayton turns out to be Olowokandi 2.0

[lilfishi22]

Tatum is a great

But as Carmelo has proven.... being a scorer and not much else becomes a burden down the line. How amazing was Melo when he was in his early to mid 20s?

Tatum is a very good shooter and the only thing that prevents him from being an absolute star down the line would be if he doesnt develop other aspects of his game. Sure, he could be a Dirk Nowitski type as well, someone who is a great scorer but stretches the floor by being an elite 3pt shooter... but Dirk was 7 feet and that made him very hard to matchup with.

I think Tatum can become better than Rudy Gay purely because he is being coached properly and is learning to play within a team environment... but I think he needs to become a better play maker for others... his defense is adequate and will improve so...




Josh Jackson has him beat in mobility, athleticism and overall-all potential... but Josh needs to become a decent shooter. A sub 65% Free throw shooter is not good enough as he draws a lot fouls actually... so he's missing out on close to 4-5 points a game by just being below average at that bit.


The thing is.... with the way Josh has improved and has shown quick learning ability... and what looks to be a high motor and work ethic... I think he has several notches that he will improved on by the time he's in his mid 20s.

Tatum and Brown has also shown how FIT and opportunity are VERY critical in development... lets not even mention Mitchell.... if Mitchell was off the bench with 16 mins a game, I dont think he'd be as good as he is... he had to quickly adopt an alpha mentality to prove he deserves the minutes he's getting and the team looks up to him to contribute....



Fultz is very intriguing and I would be very interested in making a move for him.... Pick 16 and Unprotected pick next year would be my offer with maybe Chriss attached.

Of course Tatum can be better, however he average 4 Rebs and 2 Assist per game in the Eastern Conference Finals. But hey, he is Jayson Tatum and he has a great narrative playing for the Celts and everyone bought it, thus, his averaging 4 rebs and 2 assts in 40 mins per game is overlooked....lmao! People are such sheep.

Imagine anyone else just being a good shooter. Heck he ain’t even a scorer yet. 17.8 pts on the Finals. It’s dumbfounding, the hype for this guy.

Some fans really just love to discount the impact, production and potential of Tatum and just put down his rookie achievement because the Celtics had a great narrative this season. This guy was more productive and almost as efficient in the playoffs as the regular season, that's HUGE for a rookie. But sure, let's discount what he's done because he only averaged 4 rebs and 2ast as a 19 year old, in his rookie season in the NBA playoffs. We're talking about a guy who's done all this and is more than a year younger than Josh Jackson the guy who's supposedly the next coming of Kawhi Leonard. Hell, if JJ averaged half those stats, you'd be looking for some obscure narrative to show he's somehow better than Tatum's almost 19/5/3 in the playoffs.

Like 18ppg in the ECF (18.5ppg in the playoffs) is something to just brush aside. Good Lord... You call people sheep for recognizing his talent and achievements as a rookie and you're over here just spewing hate on the guy for no reasons other than you don't like the attention he's getting. C'mon dude, how about be a *little* less transparent with your obvious bias against the kid.