The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Revived]

When I started playing basketball, they always would have me at the block, and I'm like, 'Yo, I don't want to play down here,'" he said. "I want to do something else. This is not entertaining to me, and whatever the guards do, I wanted to do. In practice, I'm not doing post work. I want to dribble the ball. I want to shoot, too."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22023803/arizona-wildcats-freshman-deandre-ayton-not-afraid-do-big-things

I’ve seen some of the pro Ayton people say how he’s gonna be such a great post player and will dominate the paint and all that....he will do no such thing with this type of mentality.

This mentality isn’t that of a Shaq or a Hakeem. It’s that of an LMA or Bosh.

“I’m not doing post work” is quite damn telling...it would be like Doncic as a wing/guard saying “I’m not gonna shoot 3s”.

[AtheJ415]

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Bamba has Gobert written all over him. He will be a DPOY candidate in the NBA barring injuries. High basketball IQ and crazy good work ethic.

He got admission to Ivy League schools because of his grades and SAT scores but decided to pursue basketball instead.

Players like him with that type of work ethic and mentality will succeed.

I wouldn’t mind Bamba at #1 even thoug I doubt Suns have balls to do it. I think 2 years from now, strong chance that he ends up best player from this draft.

If we can trade down to get him and also somehow get Porter then I’d be so stoked with this draft.

Anyone
Booker
Jackson
Porter
Bamba

Would be such a fun lineup.

A couple things, first, he got in because he is a monster athlete. He did well on his exams and scores (30 on ACT is 94th percentile), but that is still below average for Harvard (aims for 32-35 on ACT), for instance, who accepted him. I have a friend who was an all american swimmer. He was a non-minority who got into Harvard with a GPA a full point below my other friend and an SAT score hundreds below the other, who was a double minority and had been accepted by the rest of the Ivy League on academics. The idea Ivy's don't care about sports when it comes to admittance is crazy. They do. They recruit football players with 3.0 GPAs, which wouldn't get you anywhere near them if not for the athleticism. They don't recruit regular students with 3.0 GPAs. That isn't to diminish Bamba, who is a legitimately smart dude, but he probably doesn't get in with his reported standardized test scores, though his GPA at 3.8 was solid. My buddy above though had above a 4.0 at a better high school than Bamba with better standardized scores and he got passed up for the all american swimmer who had much worse scores than both.

Another thing to keep in mind--having smart players is helpful, but book smarts is not the same as basketball IQ. Brandon Knight is literally one of the smartest players in the NBA. He was a national merit scholar. I believe OJ Mayo was as well. Both have very poor basketball IQs.

[sunsbum]

I want mo probably more than Ayton and Doncic, and if we had the 2-4 pick I'd be all in, but im not taking anyone over Ayton.

[Waylay13]

I’ve always wanted Bamba. There’s something that tells me , that he will be best player in the draft. Suns should trade back to 3 and pick whoever is left.

I dont mind Bamba but our draft pick must make an impact this year and unless Bamba is going to start taking steroids there is no way that he is going to be going from 220 to over 250 that he is going need to defend NBA centers.

[lilfishi22]

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Bender really needs some big nasty in his game

[Revived]

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Bender really needs some big nasty in his game

And Chriss maybe needs some less.

[lilfishi22]

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Never been a huge fan of Bamba but I love the way he's selling himself and how confident he is. Most guys when interviewed kinda just talk about oh "most teams needs a guy who can just handle the ball, score when needed blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzz...." but Bamba is real specific when it comes to our needs and what he brings. I still don't like him at #1 but just based on his interview, I'm more confident that he'll pan out than I ever was

[TheLogician]

When I started playing basketball, they always would have me at the block, and I'm like, 'Yo, I don't want to play down here,'" he said. "I want to do something else. This is not entertaining to me, and whatever the guards do, I wanted to do. In practice, I'm not doing post work. I want to dribble the ball. I want to shoot, too."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22023803/arizona-wildcats-freshman-deandre-ayton-not-afraid-do-big-things

I’ve seen some of the pro Ayton people say how he’s gonna be such a great post player and will dominate the paint and all that....he will do no such thing with this type of mentality.

This mentality isn’t that of a Shaq or a Hakeem. It’s that of an LMA or Bosh.

“I’m not doing post work” is quite damn telling...it would be like Doncic as a wing/guard saying “I’m not gonna shoot 3s”.

He is speaking in the past tense. Notice how the quote starts with "when I started playing basketball"? Sean Miller had him practicing in the post and he repped the gold jersey almost all season.

[lilfishi22]

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Bender really needs some big nasty in his game

And Chriss maybe needs some less.

Chriss just needs to learn how to play. Amare had poor overall basketball IQ but his natural offensive awareness was off the chart. He just knew what to do with his body and with his skills when he had the ball in his hand. Most of us kinda laughed him off that one offseason when he started shooting 3's to expand his game when everyone was screaming for him to work on his defense. He was probably ahead of the game trying to evolve into a stretch 4 back in 2007. He never really shot them much but looking back, the impact in adding a 3PT shot would probably have been a better use of his time and effort than trying to get better defensively where he's never been good. It's just that understanding of your strength and weaknesses and channeling it in the right direction.

[NTB]

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[thamadkant]

When I started playing basketball, they always would have me at the block, and I'm like, 'Yo, I don't want to play down here,'" he said. "I want to do something else. This is not entertaining to me, and whatever the guards do, I wanted to do. In practice, I'm not doing post work. I want to dribble the ball. I want to shoot, too."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22023803/arizona-wildcats-freshman-deandre-ayton-not-afraid-do-big-things

I’ve seen some of the pro Ayton people say how he’s gonna be such a great post player and will dominate the paint and all that....he will do no such thing with this type of mentality.

This mentality isn’t that of a Shaq or a Hakeem. It’s that of an LMA or Bosh.

“I’m not doing post work” is quite damn telling...it would be like Doncic as a wing/guard saying “I’m not gonna shoot 3s”.

So now the small ball pro guys can't say that against him since Ayton can be Bosh like who was perfect small ball center...

But yet pro Ayton guys have seen what he can do inside of he does choose to play there and he's dominant..

This is a good thing for Ayton.. Versatile big

[Villalobos]

I am... *gasp* warming up to the Ayton pick. Partially from the "he was playing PF" thing, which I assumed was just an excuse before.

Looking up NBA power forwards in college they had a similar low (usually lower) block%. What I don't know about though is other centers playing PF in college with low block #s who turned out to be good NBA center defenders with higher block%. Anyone got any examples of that?

[lilfishi22]

If he's willing to play the 5, which I think he's better suited to and coming out to defend the perimeter only if the defensive play calls for it, I would be more confident he'll be able to increase his block rate which makes me more comfortable about his defense.

[bwgood77]

I am... *gasp* warming up to the Ayton pick. Partially from the "he was playing PF" thing, which I assumed was just an excuse before.

Looking up NBA power forwards in college they had a similar low (usually lower) block%. What I don't know about though is other centers playing PF in college with low block #s who turned out to be good NBA center defenders with higher block%. Anyone got any examples of that?

I've always not totally bought the PF thing for blocks in part due to the fact that JJJr had more blocks than anyone but played PF.

However, if he was just planted in the middle, or playing zone, he likely would have gotten more blocks.

I've never had a big problem with his blocks and he improved some, but what was odd watching him was that he was often right there and easily could have gotten a block, but just watched the guy finish...usually when it wasn't his guy, but the guy was getting past his defender.

I imagine we will see some of that but hopefully it improves. I've mentioned in the past that it felt like he was overthinking things and that I am not sure it was that it was lazy...it was like the wheels were turning and he froze..

The main reason I'm fine with picking Ayton is because of the winner of guy who practices the hardest award every day (though I'm not sure the competition he had). I just keep going back to that. And having watched him all year he is a VERY likable guy. And obviously it all starts with his obvious size, skills, shooting, athleticism and upside.

I am a huge sucker for the high motor/very high iq/empower your teammates/win at all costs mentality and success that Doncic has so it's a tough call.

Like I said before the draft, I almost hope we get 2 because I have a hard time passing up either guy.

Back to Ayton, I've always hated bigs that can't shoot....guys like WCS, etc....Ayton can shoot but he's also got that size. He plays much softer than his stature but hopefully Big Nasty can put a little nasty in him so he utilizes that mass he has with screens and on defense.

[Puff]

I am... *gasp* warming up to the Ayton pick. Partially from the "he was playing PF" thing, which I assumed was just an excuse before.

Looking up NBA power forwards in college they had a similar low (usually lower) block%. What I don't know about though is other centers playing PF in college with low block #s who turned out to be good NBA center defenders with higher block%. Anyone got any examples of that?

I've always not totally bought the PF thing for blocks in part due to the fact that JJJr had more blocks than anyone but played PF.

However, if he was just planted in the middle, or playing zone, he likely would have gotten more blocks.

I've never had a big problem with his blocks and he improved some, but what was odd watching him was that he was often right there and easily could have gotten a block, but just watched the guy finish...usually when it wasn't his guy, but the guy was getting past his defender.

I imagine we will see some of that but hopefully it improves. I've mentioned in the past that it felt like he was overthinking things and that I am not sure it was that it was lazy...it was like the wheels were turning and he froze..

The main reason I'm fine with picking Ayton is because of the winner of guy who practices the hardest award every day (though I'm not sure the competition he had). I just keep going back to that. And having watched him all year he is a VERY likable guy. And obviously it all starts with his obvious size, skills, shooting, athleticism and upside.

I am a huge sucker for the high motor/very high iq/empower your teammates/win at all costs mentality and success that Doncic has so it's a tough call.

Like I said before the draft, I almost hope we get 2 because I have a hard time passing up either guy.

Back to Ayton, I've always hated bigs that can't shoot....guys like WCS, etc....Ayton can shoot but he's also got that size. He plays much softer than his stature but hopefully Big Nasty can put a little nasty in him so he utlizes that mass he has with screens and on defense.

I am right there with you and Ayton is extremely hard to pass up. However it does not matter how many great players you have. If you have no engine you have no team. Doncic appears to be the premier engine on the market and he will be there for the taking.

How well did our team run when we had Marbury as our main engine. Fun to watch but struggled to win.

When we brought in Nash as our engine we not only were fun to watch we won a crap load of games.

I see Doncic bringing that to this team for the next 15 years. That is why I am hung up on Doncic and cannot scratch him off my list even with the opportunity to draft a tremendously talented big in Ayton. We need Doncic more.

[kennydorglas]

I am... *gasp* warming up to the Ayton pick. Partially from the "he was playing PF" thing, which I assumed was just an excuse before.

Looking up NBA power forwards in college they had a similar low (usually lower) block%. What I don't know about though is other centers playing PF in college with low block #s who turned out to be good NBA center defenders with higher block%. Anyone got any examples of that?

This would be an interesting research. I'd guess no one did this.

[bwgood77]

I am... *gasp* warming up to the Ayton pick. Partially from the "he was playing PF" thing, which I assumed was just an excuse before.

Looking up NBA power forwards in college they had a similar low (usually lower) block%. What I don't know about though is other centers playing PF in college with low block #s who turned out to be good NBA center defenders with higher block%. Anyone got any examples of that?

This would be an interesting research. I'd guess no one did this.

I don't know that Ayton's block #s are THAT low for a PF in college. They are probably on the high side are they not? Did you chart him as a PF? I mean most of the studies that knocked his block rate were comparing him to bigs taken in the top 10 and one of the write ups was early in the season when is block rate was lower than it ended up being overall.

I'll have to look at Draymond Green. He probably played some PF and I think I looked before and he didn't have many blocks. He's probably a bit different, but it might be hard to find.

The thing is, there are not that many guys who avg that many blocks in the NBA. It's more just about disrupting shots at the rim.

Watching a team like Buffalo continue to take it to the rim, I imagine with the 3 second rule, the NBA guards like Curry, Westbrook, Harden, Paul, etc, will eat him alive for awhile...but they do most people.

It will be interesting to see how Ayton handles the physicality of the league. He is obviously huge, but I've always thought of him more like a teddy bear type of guy.

Obviously Doncic has dealt with a ton of physicality since the euroleague is more physical, or they let the teams get away with more there.

[J_T]

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Never been a huge fan of Bamba but I love the way he's selling himself and how confident he is. Most guys when interviewed kinda just talk about oh "most teams needs a guy who can just handle the ball, score when needed blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzz...." but Bamba is real specific when it comes to our needs and what he brings. I still don't like him at #1 but just based on his interview, I'm more confident that he'll pan out than I ever was

I have to say that all the tweets you posted make me dislike him even more. He hasn't done **** in NBA, everyone thinks that he is years from really doing some damage in the league and yet he is claiming that somehow there are only 5 players in the league that are better at protecting the rim? This guy has some serious problem... in his head. What kind of things is he going to be saying if he actually DOES have some impact in the league? He is the best player ever? You might be attracted to such behavior but I am bothered by it, a lot.

[kennydorglas]

I am... *gasp* warming up to the Ayton pick. Partially from the "he was playing PF" thing, which I assumed was just an excuse before.

Looking up NBA power forwards in college they had a similar low (usually lower) block%. What I don't know about though is other centers playing PF in college with low block #s who turned out to be good NBA center defenders with higher block%. Anyone got any examples of that?

This would be an interesting research. I'd guess no one did this.

I don't know that Ayton's block #s are THAT low for a PF in college. They are probably on the high side are they not? Did you chart him as a PF? I mean most of the studies that knocked his block rate were comparing him to bigs taken in the top 10 and one of the write ups was early in the season when is block rate was lower than it ended up being overall.

I'll have to look at Draymond Green. He probably played some PF and I think I looked before and he didn't have many blocks. He's probably a bit different, but it might be hard to find.

The thing is, there are not that many guys who avg that many blocks in the NBA. It's more just about disrupting shots at the rim.

Watching a team like Buffalo continue to take it to the rim, I imagine with the 3 second rule, the NBA guards like Curry, Westbrook, Harden, Paul, etc, will eat him alive for awhile...but they do most people.

It will be interesting to see how Ayton handles the physicality of the league. He is obviously huge, but I've always thought of him more like a teddy bear type of guy.

Obviously Doncic has dealt with a ton of physicality since the euroleague is more physical, or they let the teams get away with more there.

BLK% avg for 19yo PF is 5.09%
I only had Ayton graded against 19yo C, he'd probably grade even better as a 4.

Draymond had a ncaa career BLK% at 3.87%... in the NBA his career% is 3.0%.

[lilfishi22]

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Never been a huge fan of Bamba but I love the way he's selling himself and how confident he is. Most guys when interviewed kinda just talk about oh "most teams needs a guy who can just handle the ball, score when needed blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzz...." but Bamba is real specific when it comes to our needs and what he brings. I still don't like him at #1 but just based on his interview, I'm more confident that he'll pan out than I ever was

I have to say that all the tweets you posted make me dislike him even more. He hasn't done **** in NBA, everyone thinks that he is years from really doing some damage in the league and yet he is claiming that somehow there are only 5 players in the league that are better at protecting the rim? This guy has some serious problem... in his head. What kind of things is he going to be saying if he actually DOES have some impact in the league? He is the best player ever? You might be attracted to such behavior but I am bothered by it, a lot.

He has the attitude which you need to become a great player in the NBA. He hasn't done anything in the NBA yet but having this attitude that you can compete with the best of them is the right attitude.