Luka Doncic will be the best rookie since Lebron.

[Veggamattic]

uh...there have been many rookies who were better than LBJ since 2003....there are probably 3 this year alone.

I mean, people do know that LBJ wasn't the best rookie in his class, right? Or probably even second best.

LBJ got ROY because of the hype he had as a prospect, he wasn't close to an all time great rookie because he was too young.

Your posts in this thread are pathetic...some of the worst I have ever seen...how old were you in 2003?

Old enough to assess that LBJ wasn't a better rookie than Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Greg Oden - I could keep going (I can also spot out who is ignorant, because people will laugh as if Oden was a bad rookie or something I bet).

Joel Embiid was a better rookie than LBJ btw.



Again - if anything, people are showing their age by not being able to split between James hype as a prospect and his hype as a rookie. If you think there hasn't been a better rookie than 18 year old Lebron James up to this point then you are the one who wasn't following basketball closely then...probably still don't follow it closely now in fact.

Nope...you are not getting away with pretending you know how good he was when you didn't even watch him? Stop with the childish hating. He was way better than all 3 players you mentioned. He won rookie of the month every month against a stacked rookie class.

[jonjames]

uh...there have been many rookies who were better than LBJ since 2003....there are probably 3 this year alone.

I mean, people do know that LBJ wasn't the best rookie in his class, right? Or probably even second best.

LBJ got ROY because of the hype he had as a prospect, he wasn't close to an all time great rookie because he was too young.

Your posts in this thread are pathetic...some of the worst I have ever seen...how old were you in 2003?

Old enough to assess that LBJ wasn't a better rookie than Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Greg Oden - I could keep going (I can also spot out who is ignorant, because people will laugh as if Oden was a bad rookie or something I bet).

Joel Embiid was a better rookie than LBJ btw.



Again - if anything, people are showing their age by not being able to split between James hype as a prospect and his hype as a rookie. If you think there hasn't been a better rookie than 18 year old Lebron James up to this point then you are the one who wasn't following basketball closely then...probably still don't follow it closely now in fact.

Okay you lost all credibility after you mentioned greg oden.

[HeartBreakKid]

Your posts in this thread are pathetic...some of the worst I have ever seen...how old were you in 2003?

Old enough to assess that LBJ wasn't a better rookie than Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Greg Oden - I could keep going (I can also spot out who is ignorant, because people will laugh as if Oden was a bad rookie or something I bet).

Joel Embiid was a better rookie than LBJ btw.



Again - if anything, people are showing their age by not being able to split between James hype as a prospect and his hype as a rookie. If you think there hasn't been a better rookie than 18 year old Lebron James up to this point then you are the one who wasn't following basketball closely then...probably still don't follow it closely now in fact.

Nope...you are not getting away with pretending you know how good he was when you didn't even watch him? Stop with the childish hating. He was way better than all 3 players you mentioned. He won rookie of the month every month against a stacked rookie class.

Right - I've been watching basketball since the 90s, that's a bit before 2004, chico.

Hahaha - you think because he won Rookie of the Month against Carmelo Anthony and Wade that means he was a better rookie?


Wait


Wait


Do you even know how rookie of the month is given? Serious question??



Sorry dude

LBJ

Was an awful defender

Inefficient scorer

Incredibly turnover prone

Not a volume scorer



Please, please - anyone here please argument ANY of these 4 points above.


Btw - if you were "old enough" to remember that time, plenty of people argued that LBJ did not deserve ROY. In fact, only people who weren't around then or didn't follow basketball closely go on wikipedia and see that LBJ won ROY and assume he just dominated Melo and Wade.





LBJ is no where NEAR one of the best rookies of all time. Not even close. Sorry, you can play the age argument all you want even though it's irrelevant, and if you were born post 70s and making an age argument about LBJ then you should just log out of your account. I was boning girls by the time LBJ got in the NBA, so no, I wasn't some toddler.

[Veggamattic]

Old enough to assess that LBJ wasn't a better rookie than Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Greg Oden - I could keep going (I can also spot out who is ignorant, because people will laugh as if Oden was a bad rookie or something I bet).

Joel Embiid was a better rookie than LBJ btw.



Again - if anything, people are showing their age by not being able to split between James hype as a prospect and his hype as a rookie. If you think there hasn't been a better rookie than 18 year old Lebron James up to this point then you are the one who wasn't following basketball closely then...probably still don't follow it closely now in fact.

Nope...you are not getting away with pretending you know how good he was when you didn't even watch him? Stop with the childish hating. He was way better than all 3 players you mentioned. He won rookie of the month every month against a stacked rookie class.

Right - I've been watching basketball since the 90s, that's a bit before 2004, chico.

Hahaha - you think because he won Rookie of the Month against Carmelo Anthony and Wade that means he was a better rookie?


Wait


Wait


Do you even know how rookie of the month is given? Serious question??



Sorry dude

LBJ

Was an awful defender

Inefficient scorer

Incredibly turnover prone

Not a volume scorer



Please, please - anyone here please argument ANY of these 4 points above.


Btw - if you were "old enough" to remember that time, plenty of people argued that LBJ did not deserve ROY. In fact, only people who weren't around then or didn't follow basketball closely go on wikipedia and see that LBJ won ROY and assume he just dominated Melo and Wade.





LBJ is no where NEAR one of the best rookies of all time. Not even close. Sorry, you can play the age argument all you want even though it's irrelevant, and if you were born post 70s and making an age argument about LBJ then you should just log out of your account. I was boning girls by the time LBJ got in the NBA, so no, I wasn't some toddler.

You are so clearly just a hater that has no idea how to quantify talent. You call Lebron an "awful defender". He led the league in steals as a rookie. and could guard all 5 positions. Go troll somewhere else.

[tria]

The point is that Doncic is credited for success of his team and players who truly carried those teams. Whenever i watch him he is underwhelming and his statistical production is nothing other worldly. He is hyped up to be this wonderkid who carried his team while in reality he was just a part of the team in a pretty weak competition. All his hype comes from the fact that he is young but if you actually watch him play you would see that he is quite physically mature and pretty developed while being a average athlete so his upside is not great.

Against weak competition? The best Euroleague teams can hold their own against NBA teams. You realize other NBA prospects play in a league where a majority of players will never play any kind of pro ball.

NCAA is a weak competition too. That doesnt make Euroleague better. Euroleague is filled with NBA washouts and rejects where NBA fringe rotation players are winning MVPs and championships. Pump the breaks.

Why do people always have to say how Euroleague is filled with players that didn't make it in NBA... Well isn't it obvious? Should they just give up and retire if they are not good enough for NBA and go sell cars? Or maybe thay can go to next best thing and play there. NBA washouts are exactly the ones that should win euroleage mvps. these are the guys that are almost good enough for NBA or good enough to sit at the end of the bench, but can get same as more money in Europe as starters.

Best are in NBA, next best are in Euroleage. And ofc some overlapping as i'm sure Euroleague starters are better than some benchwarmers in nba that people don't even know.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Way too overhyped. A decent player with a low ceiling. Ingles/Batum maybe Ginobili.

Gibobili is all time great though

Ginobili was a legit superstar in his peak. He had to sacrifice a lot individually and was the odd man out with the Spurs "big 3" in that regard. His impact according to metrics though show he was a top 10 player for a few years and a legit superstar at least 4-5. He just didn't play as big of a role as he could have on another team.

[Mirotic12]

NCAA is a weak competition too. That doesnt make Euroleague better. Euroleague is filled with NBA washouts and rejects where NBA fringe rotation players are winning MVPs and championships. Pump the breaks.

It's unbelievable that in 2018 we still have so many basketball fans claiming college basketball is as good or better than the EuroLeague....

Even back in the 1980s, all-star NCAA teams and Team USA used to go play EuroLeague teams and lose........that was over 30 years ago, and we still have this nonsense...

Why do people always have to say how Euroleague is filled with players that didn't make it in NBA... Well isn't it obvious? Should they just give up and retire if they are not good enough for NBA and go sell cars? Or maybe thay can go to next best thing and play there. NBA washouts are exactly the ones that should win euroleage mvps. these are the guys that are almost good enough for NBA or good enough to sit at the end of the bench, but can get same as more money in Europe as starters.

Best are in NBA, next best are in Euroleage. And ofc some overlapping as i'm sure Euroleague starters are better than some benchwarmers in nba that people don't even know.

And also there is the little fact that no "NBA washout" in history ever won EuroLeague MVP. That's actually never even happened. It's just some imaginary myth that people come up with.

There has never in history, been a player "wash out" of the NBA, and then at any point in time, not just immediately following that, but even ever at any point going forward, that won a EuroLeague MVP.

The closest possible scenario to that would be Anthony Parker (he's the only one case that even remotely possibly fits the description)....but even in his case, he wasn't a "NBA wash out"....he could have stayed as 3rd string player in the NBA if he wanted to. He wanted more playing time, a better role, and to work on his game, so he chose to go to Europe.

None of the other EuroLeague MVPs was a NBA wash out, no matter how you look at it. Every single one of them could stay in NBA, and chose not to. Several of them would still be in NBA now if they wanted to.

And on a general note about these claims, not just to college basketball to EuroLeague, but NBA to EuroLeague....If old washed up has beens like Marcelo Huertas and Pablo Prigioni can play in NBA, if Beno Udrih can play in NBA and can still be viewed as a decent rotation player (when he's barely even good enough to be a 4th guard in EuroLeague)...........seriously, NBA is giving playing time to guys that are like 10th or 11th man level in EuroLeague.

Not to mention how every single year, numerous NBA players go to EuroLeague and are huge busts. Some of the latest examples are guys like Hollis Thompson and Bobby Brown (epic level busts in EuroLeague). So the notion that college basketball is as good or better than EuroLeague - is truly ridiculous.

And again, no NBA "wash out" was ever a EuroLeague MVP.

[nikster]

NCAA is a weak competition too. That doesnt make Euroleague better. Euroleague is filled with NBA washouts and rejects where NBA fringe rotation players are winning MVPs and championships. Pump the breaks.

It's unbelievable that in 2018 we still have so many basketball fans claiming college basketball is as good or better than the EuroLeague....

Even back in the 1980s, all-star NCAA teams and Team USA used to go play EuroLeague teams and lose........that was over 30 years ago, and we still have this nonsense...

Why do people always have to say how Euroleague is filled with players that didn't make it in NBA... Well isn't it obvious? Should they just give up and retire if they are not good enough for NBA and go sell cars? Or maybe thay can go to next best thing and play there. NBA washouts are exactly the ones that should win euroleage mvps. these are the guys that are almost good enough for NBA or good enough to sit at the end of the bench, but can get same as more money in Europe as starters.

Best are in NBA, next best are in Euroleage. And ofc some overlapping as i'm sure Euroleague starters are better than some benchwarmers in nba that people don't even know.

And also there is the little fact that no "NBA washout" in history ever won EuroLeague MVP. That's actually never even happened. It's just some imaginary myth that people come up with.

There has never in history, been a player "wash out" of the NBA, and then at any point in time, not just immediately following that, but even ever at any point going forward, that won a EuroLeague MVP.

The closest possible scenario to that would be Anthony Parker (he's the only one case that even remotely possibly fits the description)....but even in his case, he wasn't a "NBA wash out"....he could have stayed as 3rd string player in the NBA if he wanted to. He wanted more playing time, a better role, and to work on his game, so he chose to go to Europe.

None of the other EuroLeague MVPs was a NBA wash out, no matter how you look at it. Every single one of them could stay in NBA, and chose not to. Several of them would still be in NBA now if they wanted to.

And on a general note about these claims, not just to college basketball to EuroLeague, but NBA to EuroLeague....If old washed up has beens like Marcelo Huertas and Pablo Prigioni can play in NBA, if Beno Udrih can play in NBA and can still be viewed as a decent rotation player (when he's barely even good enough to be a 4th guard in EuroLeague)...........seriously, NBA is giving playing time to guys that are like 10th or 11th man level in EuroLeague.

Not to mention how every single year, numerous NBA players go to EuroLeague and are huge busts. Some of the latest examples are guys like Hollis Thompson and Bobby Brown (epic level busts in EuroLeague). So the notion that college basketball is as good or better than EuroLeague - is truly ridiculous.

And again, no NBA "wash out" was ever a EuroLeague MVP.

[nikster]

NCAA is a weak competition too. That doesnt make Euroleague better. Euroleague is filled with NBA washouts and rejects where NBA fringe rotation players are winning MVPs and championships. Pump the breaks.

It's unbelievable that in 2018 we still have so many basketball fans claiming college basketball is as good or better than the EuroLeague....

Even back in the 1980s, all-star NCAA teams and Team USA used to go play EuroLeague teams and lose........that was over 30 years ago, and we still have this nonsense...

Why do people always have to say how Euroleague is filled with players that didn't make it in NBA... Well isn't it obvious? Should they just give up and retire if they are not good enough for NBA and go sell cars? Or maybe thay can go to next best thing and play there. NBA washouts are exactly the ones that should win euroleage mvps. these are the guys that are almost good enough for NBA or good enough to sit at the end of the bench, but can get same as more money in Europe as starters.

Best are in NBA, next best are in Euroleage. And ofc some overlapping as i'm sure Euroleague starters are better than some benchwarmers in nba that people don't even know.

And also there is the little fact that no "NBA washout" in history ever won EuroLeague MVP. That's actually never even happened. It's just some imaginary myth that people come up with.

There has never in history, been a player "wash out" of the NBA, and then at any point in time, not just immediately following that, but even ever at any point going forward, that won a EuroLeague MVP.

The closest possible scenario to that would be Anthony Parker (he's the only one case that even remotely possibly fits the description)....but even in his case, he wasn't a "NBA wash out"....he could have stayed as 3rd string player in the NBA if he wanted to. He wanted more playing time, a better role, and to work on his game, so he chose to go to Europe.

None of the other EuroLeague MVPs was a NBA wash out, no matter how you look at it. Every single one of them could stay in NBA, and chose not to. Several of them would still be in NBA now if they wanted to.

And on a general note about these claims, not just to college basketball to EuroLeague, but NBA to EuroLeague....If old washed up has beens like Marcelo Huertas and Pablo Prigioni can play in NBA, if Beno Udrih can play in NBA and can still be viewed as a decent rotation player (when he's barely even good enough to be a 4th guard in EuroLeague)...........seriously, NBA is giving playing time to guys that are like 10th or 11th man level in EuroLeague.

Not to mention how every single year, numerous NBA players go to EuroLeague and are huge busts. Some of the latest examples are guys like Hollis Thompson and Bobby Brown (epic level busts in EuroLeague). So the notion that college basketball is as good or better than EuroLeague - is truly ridiculous.

And again, no NBA "wash out" was ever a EuroLeague MVP.

I agree on the level of Europe hue competition, but I think you can argue Nando de Colo was a euroleague MVP who washed out of NBA

[jonjames]

Way too overhyped. A decent player with a low ceiling. Ingles/Batum maybe Ginobili.

Gibobili is all time great though

Ginobili was a legit superstar in his peak. He had to sacrifice a lot individually and was the odd man out with the Spurs "big 3" in that regard. His impact according to metrics though show he was a top 10 player for a few years and a legit superstar at least 4-5. He just didn't play as big of a role as he could have on another team.

You cant extrapolate small sample size and come to conclusion that he is/was a superstar based on that. He didnt play as big of role bc he couldnt. No team is keeping a top 10 player in the league to come off the bench period.

[Spintown]

Nope...you are not getting away with pretending you know how good he was when you didn't even watch him? Stop with the childish hating. He was way better than all 3 players you mentioned. He won rookie of the month every month against a stacked rookie class.

Right - I've been watching basketball since the 90s, that's a bit before 2004, chico.

Hahaha - you think because he won Rookie of the Month against Carmelo Anthony and Wade that means he was a better rookie?


Wait


Wait


Do you even know how rookie of the month is given? Serious question??



Sorry dude

LBJ

Was an awful defender

Inefficient scorer

Incredibly turnover prone

Not a volume scorer



Please, please - anyone here please argument ANY of these 4 points above.


Btw - if you were "old enough" to remember that time, plenty of people argued that LBJ did not deserve ROY. In fact, only people who weren't around then or didn't follow basketball closely go on wikipedia and see that LBJ won ROY and assume he just dominated Melo and Wade.





LBJ is no where NEAR one of the best rookies of all time. Not even close. Sorry, you can play the age argument all you want even though it's irrelevant, and if you were born post 70s and making an age argument about LBJ then you should just log out of your account. I was boning girls by the time LBJ got in the NBA, so no, I wasn't some toddler.

You are so clearly just a hater that has no idea how to quantify talent. You call Lebron an "awful defender". He led the league in steals as a rookie. and could guard all 5 positions. Go troll somewhere else.

Thats not true. Allen Iverson Led the League in Steals that year. Also as you can see with the Example (Allen Iverson) just because you get steals doesn't mean you are a good on-ball defender.

[Darth Celtic]

Better than Simmons, better than Towns, better than Blake Griffin in terms of a rookie season. According to Kevin Pelton's WARP he is actually is being projected to be the most dominant rookie in the last 12 years at least (tracked since 06). Just put up 21, 7.5, 7, 1.5 steals PER 36 on elite efficiency, just turned 19 years old, led his team to the Euroleague title.

I really really hope he doesnt stay in Europe this year. We will all be robbed of an amazing talent. His game and size is ideal for the NBA right now to have a bit of a perfect storm scenario that Dirk had mid career where the league became a pace+space/PnR league.

In the NBA he should be an even better fit. If the Suns don't draft him at #1 they are making a huge mistake. This thread will be revisited in the season I'm sure.

I"m sorry, but after your hot takes in the Kyrie/IT trade thread, I just can't take anything you say seriously. Like just by reading this, I expect him to bust out worse than darko.

[Wagonband]

Yes the comparisons with Milicic are on point.

19y old Milicic avaraged 9 points and 5 rebounds playing in a national league in Serbia. To compare, like if an American state had it's own league, but all those teams were not top 16 material for Euroleague.

Doncic at 19 avaraged 14/5/5 while playing the lead role for the best team in Europe... And not only that, avaraging that after playing 18 months straight without any time to work on his game...

Also Euroleague is far from as bad as people think. If you are an nba washout, doesn't make you and Euroleague star. Jason Thompson avaraged 12/8 his second year in NBA. This year he avaraged 4.6 and 4.2 for Fener. Just an example

[OkcSinceSGA]

Better than Simmons, better than Towns, better than Blake Griffin in terms of a rookie season. According to Kevin Pelton's WARP he is actually is being projected to be the most dominant rookie in the last 12 years at least (tracked since 06). Just put up 21, 7.5, 7, 1.5 steals PER 36 on elite efficiency, just turned 19 years old, led his team to the Euroleague title.

I really really hope he doesnt stay in Europe this year. We will all be robbed of an amazing talent. His game and size is ideal for the NBA right now to have a bit of a perfect storm scenario that Dirk had mid career where the league became a pace+space/PnR league.

In the NBA he should be an even better fit. If the Suns don't draft him at #1 they are making a huge mistake. This thread will be revisited in the season I'm sure.

I"m sorry, but after your hot takes in the Kyrie/IT trade thread, I just can't take anything you say seriously. Like just by reading this, I expect him to bust out worse than darko.

Yea because a player getting injured and falling off a cliff nullifies anything I said right? IT was a better player the prior year hands down. Kyrie is a great player but only this year in less than half a season sample finally lived up to his hype and or contract.

[mixerball]

Gibobili is all time great though

Ginobili was a legit superstar in his peak. He had to sacrifice a lot individually and was the odd man out with the Spurs "big 3" in that regard. His impact according to metrics though show he was a top 10 player for a few years and a legit superstar at least 4-5. He just didn't play as big of a role as he could have on another team.

You cant extrapolate small sample size and come to conclusion that he is/was a superstar based on that. He didnt play as big of role bc he couldnt. No team is keeping a top 10 player in the league to come off the bench period.

you dont get what a superstar is. you only know what murican media definition of a superstar is. ginobili has been a superstar everwhere he played. starting is overrated. finishing is the only thing that matters. 4 rings says enough

[TheGr81]

Before you jump on me with the "but he is so good for his age" crap, let me tell you why I think he is just a type of a player who matures early but also hits the ceiling early.

He doesn't have even the basis of at least one go-to move which is needed in order to be really great. And unless at least one entirely new (go-to) move pops up during Doncic's carrier and becomes polished quickly, he will be a little improved but still a limited player which he is today. There are simply no existing elements in his game which indicate that he will ever be able to really create his own shot.

Not every great player or allstar was good as Doncic in those young years, but you could still see that the elements in their games are there, they just needed work. For example, Dirk sucked as young but he got all the elements already - he just worked on them during following years and the rest is history. Doncic doesn't have any elements, either he will have to add them and quickly polish them, or he will just be a role player. He even couldn't manage to create his own shot against a center who switched on him (in the final game of the f4), after a crappy attempt to do something he just thrown the ball like an amateur.


Discuss and feel free to bump this thread if anyone will still care about Doncic after not justifying the hype

[dirkforpres]

I hope the top 4 picks feel the same way

[mixerball]

step back is his go to move

[Egg Nog]

Today I learned that 19 year old rookies need to have a polished signature move to justify potential.

[TheGr81]

Today I learned that 19 year old rookies need to have a polished signature move to justify potential.

You need elements for polishing, not polished elements. Read again what I've said.