Luka Doncic will be the best rookie since Lebron.

[Egg Nog]

Today I learned that 19 year old rookies need to have a polished signature move to justify potential.

You need elements for polishing, not polished elements. Read again what I've said.

I read it.

The lack of a signature offensive weapon from a guy who isn't expected to be a pure scorer doesn't really seem like anything to me. He may or may not live up to the hype, but I don't agree with the reasoning.

Crafty pass-first guys like Doncic often look better than ever alongside more talented teammates; I could see him making a big leap when he hits the NBA. Efficient production within a team context is what will justify the hype, the rest is just details.

[TheGr81]

Today I learned that 19 year old rookies need to have a polished signature move to justify potential.

You need elements for polishing, not polished elements. Read again what I've said.

I read it.

The lack of a signature offensive weapon from a guy who isn't expected to be a pure scorer doesn't really seem like anything to me. He may or may not live up to the hype, but I don't agree with the reasoning.

Crafty pass-first guys like Doncic often look better than ever alongside more talented teammates; I could see him making a big leap when he hits the NBA. Efficient production within a team context is what will justify the hype, the rest is just details.

If he wants to be great, the pass-first player still needs to be able to create his own shot. Slow **** kinda stepback isn't gonna cut it. And if he just going to look good alongside more talented players, what else is he going to be than a limited roleplayer? Rubio 2 at best. That can't be justifying the hype to me, since some hope that he can become the new GOAT European.


btw merging my thread with this one is crap.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Gibobili is all time great though

Ginobili was a legit superstar in his peak. He had to sacrifice a lot individually and was the odd man out with the Spurs "big 3" in that regard. His impact according to metrics though show he was a top 10 player for a few years and a legit superstar at least 4-5. He just didn't play as big of a role as he could have on another team.

You cant extrapolate small sample size and come to conclusion that he is/was a superstar based on that. He didnt play as big of role bc he couldnt. No team is keeping a top 10 player in the league to come off the bench period.

I'm not extrapolating. Manu Ginobili was a superstar in terms of impact and the data corroborates that clearly. At least for a few years.

[Egg Nog]

You need elements for polishing, not polished elements. Read again what I've said.

I read it.

The lack of a signature offensive weapon from a guy who isn't expected to be a pure scorer doesn't really seem like anything to me. He may or may not live up to the hype, but I don't agree with the reasoning.

Crafty pass-first guys like Doncic often look better than ever alongside more talented teammates; I could see him making a big leap when he hits the NBA. Efficient production within a team context is what will justify the hype, the rest is just details.

And if he just going to look good alongside more talented players, what else is he going to be than a limited roleplayer?.

I meant that his new NBA teammates will be more talented than his old ACB/Euroleague teammates.

In any case, we can agree to disagree on the importance of a go-to move. Too bad they merged the thread.

[Rn5ho]

You need elements for polishing, not polished elements. Read again what I've said.

I read it.

The lack of a signature offensive weapon from a guy who isn't expected to be a pure scorer doesn't really seem like anything to me. He may or may not live up to the hype, but I don't agree with the reasoning.

Crafty pass-first guys like Doncic often look better than ever alongside more talented teammates; I could see him making a big leap when he hits the NBA. Efficient production within a team context is what will justify the hype, the rest is just details.

If he wants to be great, the pass-first player still needs to be able to create his own shot. Slow **** kinda stepback isn't gonna cut it. And if he just going to look good alongside more talented players, what else is he going to be than a limited roleplayer? Rubio 2 at best. That can't be justifying the hype to me, since some hope that he can become the new GOAT European.


btw merging my thread with this one is crap.

Tell that to Harden.

[TheGr81]

I read it.

The lack of a signature offensive weapon from a guy who isn't expected to be a pure scorer doesn't really seem like anything to me. He may or may not live up to the hype, but I don't agree with the reasoning.

Crafty pass-first guys like Doncic often look better than ever alongside more talented teammates; I could see him making a big leap when he hits the NBA. Efficient production within a team context is what will justify the hype, the rest is just details.

If he wants to be great, the pass-first player still needs to be able to create his own shot. Slow **** kinda stepback isn't gonna cut it. And if he just going to look good alongside more talented players, what else is he going to be than a limited roleplayer? Rubio 2 at best. That can't be justifying the hype to me, since some hope that he can become the new GOAT European.


btw merging my thread with this one is crap.

Tell that to Harden.

Harden has the stepback, Bogdan Bogdanovic has one, but Luka Doncic doesn't, he just somehow tries to get back and shoot which works only against clumsy slowfooted defenders but not even against decently mobile centers.

btw, as a supposed future GOAT European, Doncic is supposed to become better than Harden, but will he actually be even a half of Harden it's a big question mark.

[Wagonband]

Before you jump on me with the "but he is so good for his age" crap, let me tell you why I think he is just a type of a player who matures early but also hits the ceiling early.

He doesn't have even the basis of at least one go-to move which is needed in order to be really great. And unless at least one entirely new (go-to) move pops up during Doncic's carrier and becomes polished quickly, he will be a little improved but still a limited player which he is today. There are simply no existing elements in his game which indicate that he will ever be able to really create his own shot.

Yes, because someone like Giannis had a "go to" move when he was 19...

And you are just spitting nonsense. He has a great crossover that often allows him to get an easy shot, he has one of the best stepbacks i have seen outside the nba. Oh, and he also has a pretty well developed post game when the opponents PG gets switched on him; one of the reasons there aren't many highlights about that is because the defenders foul him right away usually since they know otherwise he will get a high % shot.

I think the fact that people think his ceiling is low because he is so good at 19 makes no sense. Durant was a great college player, nobody said he will not be able to improve because he was so great in college already

[UcanUwill]

His step back defeinitely his go to move, and it works at creating space against anyone. How is his stepback worse than Bogdan's, you cant be serious.

[Mirotic12]

His step back is better than Bogdan's. The best step back 3 point shooters in EuroLeague....

are guys like,

Llull, Navarro, Langford, KC Rivers, Rochestie, Spanoulis, Strelnieks, Pangos, Doncic.

He also uses that Spanoulis side step 3 occasionally, which if he could master, is even more deadly than the step back 3. Llull worked with him a lot on that step back, so he learned it from a master.

[UcanUwill]

He had some sick plays in an ACB semifinal that Vlade and Vivek attended. No way he slides past them.

Watch on YouTube

[Oscar9992]

This aged well.

[Wagonband]

This aged well.

I don't get it why people hate necroing threads. It's awesome to see often, to show just how wrong people were, especially since they won't admit it often.

But yes, the Luka narrative has changed from "he won't make it, he is not athletic enough" to " so what if he is averaging a 30 point triple double at 20 on very good efficiency. His defence is worse than average and he has a bad +/- so he is not as good as he looks"

[Bob8]

This aged well.

I don't get it why people hate necroing threads. It's awesome to see often, to show just how wrong people were, especially since they won't admit it often.

But yes, the Luka narrative has changed from "he won't make it, he is not athletic enough" to " so what if he is averaging a 30 point triple double at 20 on very good efficiency. His defence is worse than average and he has a bad +/- so he is not as good as he looks"

Yes, after fat white non athletic boy had 21/8/6 as a rookie, the narrative was, he’s very near to the ceiling, sophomore slump expected. With near 30/10/10, 61% TS, and Mavs 7/5, +/- is problematic. Yes, for sure.

[User_friendly]

Yes. If someone predicts a rookie COULD be as good or Lebron, or whoever, is immediatly considerer a clown by a lot of posters here.
(ie: "First let him take his team to the playoffs or whatever")
Even if that's a question that can need several years to be debunked.

But if someone dares to affirm negative things about any player, than can be absolutely unmasked as clownish in a few months, nothing happens.

[SlovenianDragon]

The question to ask is what team does Doncic win a championship for...

[Bob8]

The question to ask is what team does Doncic win a championship for...

or better, why he hasn't won a championship yet? huge red flag.

[AdagioPace]

while I understand the pre-draft first generation doubters (the european players stigma and history, how-does-he-translate, etc.. etc..), the second generation doubters (the low-ceiling, end-product, not-a-rookie crowd) look even worse right now.

[Zespetjest]

Hats off to OP, he nailed it 100%

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I really liked Doncic in Madrid, but I was not expecting THIS. My best case was a 17-18 ppg with good rebounding and assist numbers and average efficiency, to than peak as low 20s ppg scorer with like 8-9 apg and good efficiency.
Still, it's really crazy the kind of uninformed takes you can read here, with the classic "I guarantee" or "no chance" on things clearly people had no clue about. When you throw these kind of words showing no doubt you deserve to be bumped and ridiculed, in my view.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Anyway, what really matters, I still think LeBron's rookie season is awfully overrated. Historically it's quite average for RotY standards and there have been several better since he got drafted, some arguably in his own class.