'17-'18 POY discussion

[Basileus777]

Curry's missed games should absolutely be held against him, but he's the 2nd best player in the world when healthy.

And watching these Warriors, I continue to struggle to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond. When the Warriors repeat, their defense is going to be why, and Green is simply making a profound impact there.

Do you see any potential disconnect in this post in regards to Curry and Green?

No. The Warriors are good enough that one can praise both without it being a sort of zero sum game. And Green played 70 games and the entire postseason, if you're going the injury route. There's a big difference between that and the number and significance of games Curry missed.

[ronnymac2]

Curry's missed games should absolutely be held against him, but he's the 2nd best player in the world when healthy.

And watching these Warriors, I continue to struggle to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond. When the Warriors repeat, their defense is going to be why, and Green is simply making a profound impact there.

Do you see any potential disconnect in this post in regards to Curry and Green?

Well, Steph is probably the best offensive player in the game when healthy. Green's defensive impact is enormous and quite remarkable considering the way the game is played today. KD simply doesn't match the impact of either the two guys.

I'm not questioning either players' position over Durant; I'm questioning Curry being clearly the second best player in the game when Green's enormous defensive impact looks to be the reason why GSW is going to repeat.

[Basileus777]

Do you see any potential disconnect in this post in regards to Curry and Green?

Well, Steph is probably the best offensive player in the game when healthy. Green's defensive impact is enormous and quite remarkable considering the way the game is played today. KD simply doesn't match the impact of either the two guys.

I'm not questioning either players' position over Durant; I'm questioning Curry being clearly the second best player in the game when Green's enormous defensive impact looks to be the reason why GSW is going to repeat.

It's a team game. If the Rockets were winning the title their defense would be the reason why and it wouldn't say anything against Harden.

[GSP]

Posted this on the GB, but figured it has its place here too, just to keep some perspective:

You know, as much as I hated KD's decision to go to GS, and as much as I actually feel that he's generally overrated, he's a good dude man. Watching that clip of how he helped those HS seniors just bought him a lot of respect in my book.

Easy to act like these guys aren't human beings and to just 100% judge them based on the basketball decisions they make, or their responses in the media, but KD has always seemed like a good dude and he's always been someone who's helped out in his community.

Props to him.

I dont think anyone ball fan that isnt a casual twitter nerd criticize Kds characters. Hes always been a standup person off the court

Didnt he donate a million to that Okc tornado relief years ago and actually went out on the field to help them out and forced the management to donate/up his bid?

[ronnymac2]

Well, Steph is probably the best offensive player in the game when healthy. Green's defensive impact is enormous and quite remarkable considering the way the game is played today. KD simply doesn't match the impact of either the two guys.

I'm not questioning either players' position over Durant; I'm questioning Curry being clearly the second best player in the game when Green's enormous defensive impact looks to be the reason why GSW is going to repeat.

It's a team game. If the Rockets were winning the title their defense would be the reason why and it wouldn't say anything against Harden.

But you said you struggled to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond because the way you saw it, GSW was going to repeat due to their defense, and Green is making a profound impact there.

Green anchors the defense, a defense which gives GSW a chance to repeat, and thus, Green is better than Durant. But Curry, who is also on GSW and mainly is an offensive weapon, is better than Green overall, because...it's a team game.

It doesn't sound quite so logical to me.

[Doctor MJ]

Curry's missed games should absolutely be held against him, but he's the 2nd best player in the world when healthy.

And watching these Warriors, I continue to struggle to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond. When the Warriors repeat, their defense is going to be why, and Green is simply making a profound impact there.

Y'know you're right. I need to think through Durant & Green a bit more. Green fell off my radar as a POY level contender with his soft regular season, but he's been Dray again in the playoffs.

Something I'll say though is that part of the reason why I had Green in my top 5 last year was his leadership impact, and with the vibe of the team clearly taking a hit, that hurts Green. It hurts others to, to be clear, not the least of which my guy Kerr (I'd hire Kerr in a second if I were looking for a coach, but the reality is that players tuning you out might mean a change is in order.)

Durant though remains the reason for all the dilemmas here. There's a fundamental issue wherein if he takes the wrong fork he's the only one who doesn't appear to stumble. How do you apportion credit/blame in such a situation? No great way.

[Peregrine01]

I'm not questioning either players' position over Durant; I'm questioning Curry being clearly the second best player in the game when Green's enormous defensive impact looks to be the reason why GSW is going to repeat.

It's a team game. If the Rockets were winning the title their defense would be the reason why and it wouldn't say anything against Harden.

But you said you struggled to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond because the way you saw it, GSW was going to repeat due to their defense, and Green is making a profound impact there.

Green anchors the defense, a defense which gives GSW a chance to repeat, and thus, Green is better than Durant. But Curry, who is also on GSW and mainly is an offensive weapon, is better than Green overall, because...it's a team game.

It doesn't sound quite so logical to me.

Not sure what you're getting at exactly. But I think it's quite definitive that Curry's offensive impact > Draymond's defensive impact thus Curry would be the more valuable player. No slight on Draymond though - individual defensive players don't have the impact that they used to.

[Basileus777]

I'm not questioning either players' position over Durant; I'm questioning Curry being clearly the second best player in the game when Green's enormous defensive impact looks to be the reason why GSW is going to repeat.

It's a team game. If the Rockets were winning the title their defense would be the reason why and it wouldn't say anything against Harden.

But you said you struggled to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond because the way you saw it, GSW was going to repeat due to their defense, and Green is making a profound impact there.

Green anchors the defense, a defense which gives GSW a chance to repeat, and thus, Green is better than Durant. But Curry, who is also on GSW and mainly is an offensive weapon, is better than Green overall, because...it's a team game.

It doesn't sound quite so logical to me.

If Durant were equal to Curry on offense you'd have a point, but pretty much nothing suggests that to be the case.

[ronnymac2]

It's a team game. If the Rockets were winning the title their defense would be the reason why and it wouldn't say anything against Harden.

But you said you struggled to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond because the way you saw it, GSW was going to repeat due to their defense, and Green is making a profound impact there.

Green anchors the defense, a defense which gives GSW a chance to repeat, and thus, Green is better than Durant. But Curry, who is also on GSW and mainly is an offensive weapon, is better than Green overall, because...it's a team game.

It doesn't sound quite so logical to me.

Not sure what you're getting at exactly. But I think it's quite definitive that Curry's offensive impact > Draymond's defensive impact thus Curry would be the more valuable player. No slight on Draymond though - individual defensive players don't have the impact that they used to.

OK, but my point is, why posit that Dray anchors the defense - the defense which in this individual's words was the reason why GSW was going to repeat - and is thus better than Durant FOR THIS REASON, but that healthy Curry is the second best player in the league.

It's entirely possible that Curry could be the second best player in the league even though GSW is winning thank to Dray anchoring the defense, but how likely is that when GSW has All-Star caliber offensive players in Klay and Durant? It's not like Curry is elevating the offense from the doldrums of being the worst in the league.

What I'm saying is...if Green is doing what that individual thinks he is doing, why not have Green over Curry?

[ronnymac2]

It's a team game. If the Rockets were winning the title their defense would be the reason why and it wouldn't say anything against Harden.

But you said you struggled to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond because the way you saw it, GSW was going to repeat due to their defense, and Green is making a profound impact there.

Green anchors the defense, a defense which gives GSW a chance to repeat, and thus, Green is better than Durant. But Curry, who is also on GSW and mainly is an offensive weapon, is better than Green overall, because...it's a team game.

It doesn't sound quite so logical to me.

If Durant were equal to Curry on offense you'd have a point, but pretty much nothing suggests that to be the case.

What? I don't know, see the above post I made.

My point - actually my question - is that going by your logic, shouldn't you be seriously considering ranking healthy Draymond over healthy Curry?

My question doesn't pertain to Durant, isn't focused on Durant, and certainly isn't in defense of Durant.

[Basileus777]

But you said you struggled to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond because the way you saw it, GSW was going to repeat due to their defense, and Green is making a profound impact there.

Green anchors the defense, a defense which gives GSW a chance to repeat, and thus, Green is better than Durant. But Curry, who is also on GSW and mainly is an offensive weapon, is better than Green overall, because...it's a team game.

It doesn't sound quite so logical to me.

If Durant were equal to Curry on offense you'd have a point, but pretty much nothing suggests that to be the case.

What? I don't know, see the above post I made.

My point - actually my question - is that going by your logic, shouldn't you be seriously considering ranking healthy Draymond over healthy Curry?

My question doesn't pertain to Durant, isn't focused on Durant, and certainly isn't in defense of Durant.

And yet it's focused entirely on a comparison I made with Durant. Curry can be the 2nd best player in the world and still play with a guy that deserves credit for anchoring a defense. Draymond is really good, but no, I don't think he impact the game in its entirety at the level of Curry.

[ronnymac2]

If Durant were equal to Curry on offense you'd have a point, but pretty much nothing suggests that to be the case.

What? I don't know, see the above post I made.

My point - actually my question - is that going by your logic, shouldn't you be seriously considering ranking healthy Draymond over healthy Curry?

My question doesn't pertain to Durant, isn't focused on Durant, and certainly isn't in defense of Durant.

And yet it's focused entirely on a comparison I made with Durant. Curry can be the 2nd best player in the world and still play with a guy that deserves credit for anchoring a defense.

OK but then it's difficult to believe in your argument for Dray over Durant. It doesn't make sense.

[Basileus777]

What? I don't know, see the above post I made.

My point - actually my question - is that going by your logic, shouldn't you be seriously considering ranking healthy Draymond over healthy Curry?

My question doesn't pertain to Durant, isn't focused on Durant, and certainly isn't in defense of Durant.

And yet it's focused entirely on a comparison I made with Durant. Curry can be the 2nd best player in the world and still play with a guy that deserves credit for anchoring a defense.

OK but then it's difficult to believe in your argument for Dray over Durant. It doesn't make sense.

I don't get where you are getting tangled up. Durant isn't a player on the level of Curry in any sense of the game. Draymond can be better than Durant and yet not impact the game like Curry.

[ronnymac2]

And yet it's focused entirely on a comparison I made with Durant. Curry can be the 2nd best player in the world and still play with a guy that deserves credit for anchoring a defense.

OK but then it's difficult to believe in your argument for Dray over Durant. It doesn't make sense.

I don't get where you are getting tangled up. Durant isn't a player on the level of Curry in any sense of the game. Draymond can be better than Durant and yet not impact the game like Curry.

100%, but your reasoning for putting Green over Durant can also be used to put Green over Curry.

It's entirely possible to rank it Curry>Green>Durant. It's entirely possible. But your argument for Green>Durant leads me to believe Dray>Curry as well.

So let me ask you this. Why do you think Curry is better than Draymond?

[Clyde Frazier]

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[therealbig3]

Re: Durant...I'll be honest, I thought he was outstanding tonight. He really gave a great effort defensively whenever he was matched up with LeBron, he did great work on the glass, and he was super-efficient, without breaking the offense, and let Steph be Steph.

When he plays the way he did tonight, GS is unbeatable. The problem is that he doesn't consistently play this way.

[dhsilv2]

It's a team game. If the Rockets were winning the title their defense would be the reason why and it wouldn't say anything against Harden.

But you said you struggled to see why Durant should be ranked higher than Draymond because the way you saw it, GSW was going to repeat due to their defense, and Green is making a profound impact there.

Green anchors the defense, a defense which gives GSW a chance to repeat, and thus, Green is better than Durant. But Curry, who is also on GSW and mainly is an offensive weapon, is better than Green overall, because...it's a team game.

It doesn't sound quite so logical to me.

Not sure what you're getting at exactly. But I think it's quite definitive that Curry's offensive impact > Draymond's defensive impact thus Curry would be the more valuable player. No slight on Draymond though - individual defensive players don't have the impact that they used to.

Just looking at RPM which isn't our best metric but it's what I have easy to get.

Last year's peak DRPM was 6.02 and the top ORPM was 7.27 with 4 guys over the 6.02 mark. This year was 5.12 with 5 guys over it, peak was 6.80

I don't think that's significant enough to make the claim that individual defenders aren't having similar impact to the top offensive guys. I do think the absolute best of the best offensive guys CAN be more valuable than similar defenders, but it isn't a massive gap or even a huge one.

[Dr Positivity]

This just looks too easy for GSW. They don't have to physically exert themselves and muck it up which is the only way teams have gotten them into trouble.

[TheGOATRises007]

Re: Durant...I'll be honest, I thought he was outstanding tonight. He really gave a great effort defensively whenever he was matched up with LeBron, he did great work on the glass, and he was super-efficient, without breaking the offense, and let Steph be Steph.

When he plays the way he did tonight, GS is unbeatable. The problem is that he doesn't consistently play this way.

He should.

For the first time all playoffs, they looked more like the goat 2017 team.

[Ballerhogger]

The warriors work well when the team makes its cuts its when they don’t you’ll see KD iso . Kd iso was pretty good against the pelicans and gave the warriors a spilt against the rockets at the beginning