Team Canada Basketball Thread

[BilboBanginz]

Wigginton is returning to school, as expected.

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[RaptorHusky]

Pangos made Euroleague history this year- 2nd overall in assists per season. And the company comprises names known in the NBA... Might it be that he's not that bad for international basketball?

[mojo13]

I am not sure if that is a serious question or not, but I’ll bite.

Yes.


We have been talking about this all year. I believe consensus here is that Kevin Pangos is our 3rd best PG after CoJo and Murray. I think it’s really hard to say he isn’t better than Ennis when talking FIBA ball.

Pangos has had a fantastic season.

[Hair Canada]

I'm far from a high school basketball expert, but as someone who has lived in BC my entire life and has followed high school hoops at least cursorily, I can't say I'm surprised at the lack of representation from here.

The thing is there is a pretty solid basketball culture out here, a lot of people play and there are leagues/teams spread across all competition levels. The elite youth basketball programs aren't near the quality/quantity of say the GTA, but they are out here.

I think the biggest thing is just the calibre of athlete. You have skilled ballers out here, but in terms of an athlete who is worthy of an elite D1 program and has NBA potential you just don't see it. Grant Shephard was the most notable BC player in the youth ranks as of late and if we are being honest his strength was being big and coordinated. His team won the Provincials and he won MVP with a year of high school eligibility left.

Basically, there are quality CIS recruits out here, but in terms of breaking into the next level you just don't see it.

Yes, that's been my impression as well, watching teams and players from BC. One evidence for this is that the only BC Prep team, playing in the NPA, has a hard time filling its ranks with local talent and just about all of its significant players are foreigners, coming from the Bahamas, Iran, Ukraine, Nigeria, Serbia, and Turkey. Some might say that it might not be that surprising given the major populations in BC, which include a large Asian community and less than 1% people with an African ancestry. Still, BC is a big province with a major metro area and a population of about 4.5 million people, the size of a small European country and larger than basketball powerhouses Lithuania, Slovenia, and Croatia (who also have few people of African descent). I was therefore quite puzzled by how badly the BC teams have been doing in the last few national U15 tournaments, almost always finishing behind much smaller provinces such as Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Nova Scotia, and at times even behind New Brunswick and NF&L.

The last BC prospect whom I liked besides Shepherd was c/o 2017 Keenan Dowell, coach Doug Dowell's son, who's a very nice lefty PG, with good size and fundamentals. He's still not a high-major talent though.

[RaptorHusky]

I am not sure if that is a serious question or not, but I’ll bite.

Yes.


We have been talking about this all year. I believe consensus here is that Kevin Pangos is our 3rd best PG after CoJo and Murray. I think it’s really hard to say he isn’t better than Ennis when talking FIBA ball.

Pangos has had a fantastic season.

Yeah, PAngos can pass, he can shoot: he still holds all-time 3PT made record at Gonzaga Uni
https://zagsguru.wordpress.com/welcome/statistics/3-point-field-goals-leaders/

Gonzaga’s 3-point field goal champion is Kevin Pangos, who hit 322 3-pointers from 2012–15. In each of his 4 seasons, Pangos made at least 78 3’s, landing in the top 15 individual season records in every year of his time as a Zag. [Gonzaga]

Along with that, he's 5th all-time in assists over there being just behind - guess who? - John Stockton (536 vs. 554). This kid can ball, for sure. If he just could defend at appropriate level...

[Pooh_Jeter]

I'm far from a high school basketball expert, but as someone who has lived in BC my entire life and has followed high school hoops at least cursorily, I can't say I'm surprised at the lack of representation from here.

The thing is there is a pretty solid basketball culture out here, a lot of people play and there are leagues/teams spread across all competition levels. The elite youth basketball programs aren't near the quality/quantity of say the GTA, but they are out here.

I think the biggest thing is just the calibre of athlete. You have skilled ballers out here, but in terms of an athlete who is worthy of an elite D1 program and has NBA potential you just don't see it. Grant Shephard was the most notable BC player in the youth ranks as of late and if we are being honest his strength was being big and coordinated. His team won the Provincials and he won MVP with a year of high school eligibility left.

Basically, there are quality CIS recruits out here, but in terms of breaking into the next level you just don't see it.

Yes, that's been my impression as well, watching teams and players from BC. One evidence for this is that the only BC Prep team, playing in the NPA, has a hard time filling its ranks with local talent and just about all of its significant players are foreigners, coming from the Bahamas, Iran, Ukraine, Nigeria, Serbia, and Turkey. Some might say that it might not be that surprising given the major populations in BC, which include a large Asian community and less than 1% people with an African ancestry. Still, BC is a big province with a major metro area and a population of about 4.5 million people, the size of a small European country and larger than basketball powerhouses Lithuania, Slovenia, and Croatia (who also have few people of African descent). I was therefore quite puzzled by how badly the BC teams have been doing in the last few national U15 tournaments, almost always finishing behind much smaller provinces such as Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Nova Scotia, and at times even behind New Brunswick and NF&L.

The last BC prospect whom I liked besides Shepherd was c/o 2017 Keenan Dowell, coach Doug Dowell's son, who's a very nice lefty PG, with good size and fundamentals. He's still not a high-major talent though.

I think demographics are an issue, but like you said that certainly can't be the only issue. Certainly size and athleticism is a huge bonus for your future prospects, but it isn't the be all and end all.

I think it's a similar problem that soccer has across the country. It's more of a broad infrastructure problem. You have something like the Drive basketball program which provides an outlet for competitive/elite youth basketball, but it's an ancillary program. There are tournaments, weekly games and tours against other elite youth teams typically south of the border, but it can be tough to funnel kids into this stuff especially given the time and money needed to participate.

There really aren't proper prep schools or anything for basketball out here. Recently we have had high schools adopt hockey, softball and baseball academies which essentially allow kids to focus on those sports while still in the school system. It's been pretty successful and it's a lot easier for the kids and parents to focus on a passion like sports while not having to spend so much time, money and effort outside of school time to follow that dream.

Basically if you are a hopeful hooper you are largely on your own outside of the high school sports system. If you're going to reach the elite of the elite not only in this country, but across the world that is a tough ask. There are so many obstacles in the way of someone reaching the upper echelon as a result.

[orange_juice32]

I was therefore quite puzzled by how badly the BC teams have been doing in the last few national U15 tournaments, almost always finishing behind much smaller provinces such as Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Nova Scotia, and at times even behind New Brunswick and NF&L.

Since around 2011 or so, the best talent in BC generally haven't represented for BC at nationals due to conflicts with club schedules. I think this summer will be the first summer where Basketball BC has structured it so that kids can play with their club teams and for Basketball BC at nationals as well, so should be a better result.

[Chriscross]

Is anyone familiar with Maurice Joseph as a college coach?

If so, is he any good?

[Mattd97]

Is anyone familiar with Maurice Joseph as a college coach?

If so, is he any good?

MoJo is a coach already?

[UcanUwill]

Pangos made Euroleague history this year- 2nd overall in assists per season. And the company comprises names known in the NBA... Might it be that he's not that bad for international basketball?

I love Pangos, hes really good. He is great shooter, and his pick and pop game with Jankunas was lethal. He is similar to Jose Calderon, but I like Pangos better coming out of Euroleague.

Euroleague now has far more games than before, it has legitimate league format of 30 regular season games, I believe this is just second year with this format, Euroleague used to have far less games before, so now we have these season totals' records being shattered because of that, so its not like Pangos is all time great passer, but hey, he was second just behind Calathes, who grew into ridiculous passer, so yeah, he is in good company.

[frumble]

The FIBA site has 18 players listed on Canada's roster for the U18 Worlds - the 17 listed on the Basketball Canada tryout list and Charles Bediako (2002 born) (he is also listed on the U17 roster).

First game is this Sunday, so I expect we should see a final roster soon.

And FIBA has 10 players under Canada's roster for the U17 Worlds (end of July):
C. Bediako
Hemmings
Krikke
McNeilly
Moncrieffe
Nwagha
Pattersom
Rathan-Mayes
Sakota
Todd

[mojo13]

Kevin Pangos signs with Barcelona despite NBA interest.
Rumor is its 2 year deal at 1.5MM euros per year net. So over $3MM USD per year NBA equivalent.

https://sportando.basketball/en/spain/acb/275957/barcelona-agreed-in-principle-to-a-deal-with-kevin-pangos.html

[WellYouKnow]

Kevin Pangos signs with Barcelona despite NBA interest.
Rumor is its 2 year deal at 1.5MM euros per year net. So over $3MM USD per year NBA equivalent.

https://sportando.basketball/en/spain/acb/275957/barcelona-agreed-in-principle-to-a-deal-with-kevin-pangos.html

You think there's any chance this effects his chances of suiting up at the end of this month?

[Alfred]

Wouldn't Pangos be a little small for the NBA? He's listed at 6'1'', but that seems quite generous.

[RaptorsLife]

Wouldn't Pangos be a little small for the NBA? He's listed at 6'1'', but that seems quite generous.

6’1 is fine. 5’11 wingspan is what makes it bad

[Alfred]

Wouldn't Pangos be a little small for the NBA? He's listed at 6'1'', but that seems quite generous.

6’1 is fine. 5’11 wingspan is what makes it bad

What I'm saying is that I don't think he's 6'1.

[Mattd97]

Wouldn't Pangos be a little small for the NBA? He's listed at 6'1'', but that seems quite generous.

There are certainly questions whether his body (size and athleticism both) would limit his NBA potential. Being a great euroleague player certainly would be a very positive outcome to his career

[mojo13]

Wouldn't Pangos be a little small for the NBA? He's listed at 6'1'', but that seems quite generous.

There are certainly questions whether his body (size and athleticism both) would limit his NBA potential. Being a great euroleague player certainly would be a very positive outcome to his career

You are selling him a little short. According to NBAdraft.net he Measured 6'2.5 (in shoes) 185 lbs, with a 5'11.5 wingspan at the 2014 Nike Guard Skills Academy.

[Mirotic12]

Pangos made Euroleague history this year- 2nd overall in assists per season. And the company comprises names known in the NBA... Might it be that he's not that bad for international basketball?

Pangos had a very good season, but that's a totally nonsense stat though.

EuroLeague was a 10 game season for years. It's become a 30 game season last year. So of course all of the records will be from this year or last year.

If you look at the career leaders of the league in assists for example, guys like Llull and Huertel look like they are on pace to shatter assists records...because they are going to play 10 years with 30 game seasons, when the older players (Papaloukas, Diamantidis, Spanoulius, Jasikevicius and so forth) were playing most their careers with a 10 game season.

So that stat for total assists is basically completely meaningless, other than just for the single season. It can't be used in any way to look like it's the 2nd best season ever.

EuroLeague has a new marketing company, and they are doing all these marketing gimmicks now. They kept doing the same thing with Doncic all season - every week it was he was setting some all-time record, or whatever - but that "all-time" was only for last season and this season. Same with this total assists stat.

Kevin Pangos signs with Barcelona despite NBA interest.
Rumor is its 2 year deal at 1.5MM euros per year net. So over $3MM USD per year NBA equivalent.

https://sportando.basketball/en/spain/acb/275957/barcelona-agreed-in-principle-to-a-deal-with-kevin-pangos.html

It's more like $4.7 million base a season in NBA money. Because the team will cover the taxes, the agent fees, and the player union fees and retirement fees don't count against it either (all do in NBA). Plus being net and in euros.

With the other bonus things....the club pays the player's general living expenses (condo or apartment, car, utilities, etc,) - it's about $160,000 US dollars a season that is budgeted for each player's living expense. So something around $4.85 million a season if we are talking an NBA salary equivalent.


Canada should try to get Kravic in their selections. He's definitely better than most of their centers.

Watch on YouTube

[mojo13]

Great info on the details of Pangos's deal. Crazy....very doubtful he would have gotten anything close to that in the NBA. Kudos for Kevin on not chasing the NBA pipe dream. Its tough for the North American kids when that is the what they grow up on.

Mirotic - how's Kyle Wiltjer been for Oly? I saw a few very big boxscore games from him when he was starting but it looks like a few guys healed up and he is back to a role player. I'm interested in your opinion on him.

A little hyperbolic on Kravic don't you think? "Most"?
Olynyk, Thompson, Powell, Birch - even Bennett, Nicholson, Lyles can play Center in FIBA to a degree.
Kravic might be in the mix with Sacre, Trasolini, Klassen, Landry, Bachynski but even then it is tough to see any separation from that group (I'll give you Landry and Klassen). He's had one season starting and playing fairly well on a low level Greek team. He is fairly young and on the upswing I give you that. But yes...I'd love to see him in the Canadian fold. He'd be a great add to our midseason Qualifier teams, but he doesn't crack our top 25 at this time.