Around the NBA, 2017-18 Season thread

[TheNetsFan]

Cleveland has no cap space. I could see a Kemba & Batum deal, but i think Hill+#8 would be the likeliest package that they shop around.

[MrDollarBills]

Watching the same damn finals 4 straight years is just boring AF.

I appreciate their greatness but KD joining the dubs should have never happened IMO. Ruined the league for years(competition wise).

I kinda like the creation of Goliaths. It makes the David story even more miraculous . . . especially if it's the Nets.

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

[Paradise]

Watching the same damn finals 4 straight years is just boring AF.

I appreciate their greatness but KD joining the dubs should have never happened IMO. Ruined the league for years(competition wise).

I kinda like the creation of Goliaths. It makes the David story even more miraculous . . . especially if it's the Nets.

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

Hard to say that when this league historically is based around three franchises that had dominated basketball in a similar stretch. 80’s Celtics (8 straight finals runs), Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Jordan’s Bulls, etc. It’s literally the same thing.

[TheNetsFan]

Watching the same damn finals 4 straight years is just boring AF.

I appreciate their greatness but KD joining the dubs should have never happened IMO. Ruined the league for years(competition wise).

I kinda like the creation of Goliaths. It makes the David story even more miraculous . . . especially if it's the Nets.

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

Hard cap requires non-guaranteed deals, and the NBAPA will never agree to that. They should just get rid of max deals allowing the elite get $50-70mil, so each team could only afford one. NBAPA will never agree to that either.

[Prokorov]

I totally agree

What makes Warriors special is not that they are dominant but that they were a touch of crazy magical

I still blame it on NBA forcing Draymond to sit out Game 5 when he was clearly their best player that series and Curry was hurt. .and they lost that series . Durant never goes there otherwise

I don’t care I you hate Draymond that was an astonishingly bad call by League

if it was a 1-off or even second or third offense id agree with you. but draymond has punched like a dozen dudes in the dick. they had to do something.
i
warriors also lost game 7 at home not scoring in the last 4 minutes. they also lost game 5 up 3-1 at home.

I agree they had to somethings. But benching a team’s best player for an entire game during a championship series was an extreme move. Nothing like that has ever happened before or is lkel Y Tom happen again

because most guys dont go around repeatedly punching guys in the dick. its not liek this was just the 2nd or 3rd time and im sure he got plenty and plenty of warnings and had tons of technicals in the playoffs.

if you are at the point were you have been T'd up and warned a ton cant blame the league for "bad timing" draymond shouldnt have put his team before himself and made sure to stay out of trouble. he didnt.

and they had him for game 7 at home. and they choked. didnt score the last 4+ minutes

[Prokorov]

Watching the same damn finals 4 straight years is just boring AF.

I appreciate their greatness but KD joining the dubs should have never happened IMO. Ruined the league for years(competition wise).

I kinda like the creation of Goliaths. It makes the David story even more miraculous . . . especially if it's the Nets.

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

there are 2 major issues:

1) stars leaving the teams that drafted them
2) not enough talent for 30 teams

the NBA needs a franchise Tag like the NFL. To help prevent stars from leaving teams that drafted them.

i dont think we will see contraction, but so many bad teams at a time when talent is down doesnt help

[NyCeEvO]

I kinda like the creation of Goliaths. It makes the David story even more miraculous . . . especially if it's the Nets.

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

there are 2 major issues:

1) stars leaving the teams that drafted them
2) not enough talent for 30 teams

the NBA needs a franchise Tag like the NFL. To help prevent stars from leaving teams that drafted them.

i dont think we will see contraction, but so many bad teams at a time when talent is down doesnt help

The NBA's franchise tag is Restricted Free Agency and it lasts longer than the NFL's tag. RFA gives you 4-5 more years.

I think the problem is a two-sided coin. The media and fans mainly talk about rings being the most important thing for a basketball career; the players who grow up in a culture that they are only worth something if they win eventually feel like they should do whatever they can to get rings.

The discourse really needs to be about competition and having a desire to beat others. No one considers Robert Horry better than MJ despite Horry having more rings. MJ's lore is so great because when he faced the competition at the highest level, he displayed an insatiable desire to win the title AND beat you down while doing it. The people who simply parrot "6 ringzzz" in every argument miss MJ's greatest asset: a fiery competitiveness.

I also think that's why a lot of fans respect Kobe more than LBJ. Despite coming close to leaving the Lakers, he ultimately stayed with them throughout his entire career when his teammates were terrible and when they were great.

[MrDollarBills]

I kinda like the creation of Goliaths. It makes the David story even more miraculous . . . especially if it's the Nets.

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

Hard to say that when this league historically is based around three franchises that had dominated basketball in a similar stretch. 80’s Celtics (8 straight finals runs), Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Jordan’s Bulls, etc. It’s literally the same thing.

I'm thinking in terms of modern day NBA, if teams were allowed say 1 slot that they can pay A Tier talent a supermax that is outside of the regular cap and the rest of the roster has to fit under a hard cap, that would prevent situations where you've got a considerable amount of talent on one team and for something like what happened with Kevin Durant, if a player of his caliber wanted to join a team that is already stacked, he'd have to take a considerable pay cut.

teams would have to make tough decisions, but it would allow for more teams to have access to quality talent. obviously the players will balk at this.

[Prokorov]

The NBA's franchise tag is Restricted Free Agency and it lasts longer than the NFL's tag. RFA gives you 4-5 more years.

Right but in the NL you cant scoot around RFA like you can in the NBA. if you decline the qualifying offer, you dont become an RFA. you cost yourself some short term money but if you are a star you know your getting the max anyhow. also... RFA is only good off of your rookie deal i believe. so it wouldnt prevent your star for leaving (without huge compensation) after his rookie deal.

A franchise tag would have kept Durant in OKC...RFA doesnt.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

there are 2 major issues:

1) stars leaving the teams that drafted them
2) not enough talent for 30 teams

the NBA needs a franchise Tag like the NFL. To help prevent stars from leaving teams that drafted them.

i dont think we will see contraction, but so many bad teams at a time when talent is down doesnt help

The NBA's franchise tag is Restricted Free Agency and it lasts longer than the NFL's tag. RFA gives you 4-5 more years.

I think the problem is a two-sided coin. The media and fans mainly talk about rings being the most important thing for a basketball career; the players who grow up in a culture that they are only worth something if they win eventually feel like they should do whatever they can to get rings.

The discourse really needs to be about competition and having a desire to beat others. No one considers Robert Horry better than MJ despite Horry having more rings. MJ's lore is so great because when he faced the competition at the highest level, he displayed an insatiable desire to win the title AND beat you down while doing it. The people who simply parrot "6 ringzzz" in every argument miss MJ's greatest asset: a fiery competitiveness.

I also think that's why a lot of fans respect Kobe more than LBJ. Despite coming close to leaving the Lakers, he ultimately stayed with them throughout his entire career when his teammates were terrible and when they were great.

Yeah, this is why you have Kevin Durant having no qualms about joining a team that beat him the year prior. The emphasis is not on competition, but ring accumulation.

[MrDollarBills]

The NBA's franchise tag is Restricted Free Agency and it lasts longer than the NFL's tag. RFA gives you 4-5 more years.

Right but in the NL you cant scoot around RFA like you can in the NBA. if you decline the qualifying offer, you dont become an RFA. you cost yourself some short term money but if you are a star you know your getting the max anyhow. also... RFA is only good off of your rookie deal i believe. so it wouldnt prevent your star for leaving (without huge compensation) after his rookie deal.

A franchise tag would have kept Durant in OKC...RFA doesnt.

I really don't like the idea of keeping a player trapped against his will. I say each team should be allowed a slot where they can pay a player an ungodly sum (or whatever the market dictates) and the rest of the roster must be filled under a strict hard cap. So say you have a team that already has a star locked into the high salary slot, and another team's star wants to join that team, the guy coming in would have to be willing to leave millions on the table to go ring chasing. Basically, if you want to form a super team, make the sacrifice and take less to do so.

[steady]

if it was a 1-off or even second or third offense id agree with you. but draymond has punched like a dozen dudes in the dick. they had to do something.
i
warriors also lost game 7 at home not scoring in the last 4 minutes. they also lost game 5 up 3-1 at home.

I agree they had to somethings. But benching a team’s best player for an entire game during a championship series was an extreme move. Nothing like that has ever happened before or is lkel Y Tom happen again

because most guys dont go around repeatedly punching guys in the dick. its not liek this was just the 2nd or 3rd time and im sure he got plenty and plenty of warnings and had tons of technicals in the playoffs.

if you are at the point were you have been T'd up and warned a ton cant blame the league for "bad timing" draymond shouldnt have put his team before himself and made sure to stay out of trouble. he didnt.

and they had him for game 7 at home. and they choked. didnt score the last 4+ minutes

We know that referees are much less likely to call fouls in the last few minutes of close games — even when there are fouls to be called - because they don’t want officiating to be a deciding factor in games . In this case, it wasn’t a player being pulled from a game for the last few minutes of a close game. It was pulling a player - the best player -for an entire game. And it was a flagrant foul called in a play where a foul was not even called in real time, and on which the contact was not even clear on replays if I remember right

It was a ridiculous way to decide a championship series . Curry was injured and had enough to get through a short series and not enough to finish s seven game series - so yes imo benching Green was decisive action in that series. To me it is irrelevant what happened in games six and seven in justifying the Leagues action.

[MrDollarBills]

I agree they had to somethings. But benching a team’s best player for an entire game during a championship series was an extreme move. Nothing like that has ever happened before or is lkel Y Tom happen again

because most guys dont go around repeatedly punching guys in the dick. its not liek this was just the 2nd or 3rd time and im sure he got plenty and plenty of warnings and had tons of technicals in the playoffs.

if you are at the point were you have been T'd up and warned a ton cant blame the league for "bad timing" draymond shouldnt have put his team before himself and made sure to stay out of trouble. he didnt.

and they had him for game 7 at home. and they choked. didnt score the last 4+ minutes

We know that referees are much less likely to call fouls in the last few minutes of close games — even when there are fouls to be called - because they don’t want officiating to be a deciding factor in games . In this case, it wasn’t a player being pulled from a game for the last few minutes of a close game. It was pulling a player - the best player -for an entire game. And it was a flagrant foul called in a play where a foul was not even called in real time, and on which the contact was not even clear on replays if I remember right

It was a ridiculous way to decide a championship series . Curry was injured and had enough to get through a short series and not enough to finish s seven game series - so yes imo benching Green was decisive action in that series. To me it is irrelevant what happened in games six and seven in justifying the Leagues action.

You cannot make exceptions to the rule because its the championship series. Draymond Green is a habitual offender and verbally abuses the refs every game. Had Draymond had some self control, he wouldn't have been in that position to get suspended to begin with. He brought that on itself, the NBA was just enforcing the rules.

[NyCeEvO]

The NBA's franchise tag is Restricted Free Agency and it lasts longer than the NFL's tag. RFA gives you 4-5 more years.

Right but in the NL you cant scoot around RFA like you can in the NBA. if you decline the qualifying offer, you dont become an RFA. you cost yourself some short term money but if you are a star you know your getting the max anyhow. also... RFA is only good off of your rookie deal i believe. so it wouldnt prevent your star for leaving (without huge compensation) after his rookie deal.

A franchise tag would have kept Durant in OKC...RFA doesnt.

Who was the last "star" player to decline the QO? Technically, anyone can reject it but no star actually does it.

Even if a player elects to not sign the QO by their own team and accepts an offer sheet from another team, the home team still has the right to match. This is why the only players who successfully leave a team after rejecting the QO basically trash the organization and explicitly tell them to NOT match an offer from another team. They have to hope that the home team will eventually believe that it won't be worth it to keep the player; otherwise they'll match it regardless of what the player says.

Only players (none whom have been stars) who are at odds with the franchise even dare to think of rejecting the QO. They lose money and usually lose the PR battle as well.

Every team that has a star basically has control over them for the first 7 seasons of their career, which is a long time.




The NFL's franchise tag is not even a true solution because after the second year of the franchise tag, it becomes so prohibitively expensive to tag the player again, you might as well give them a new contract.

Kirk Cousins was grossly overpaid for two straight seasons simply because Washington didn't like him but at the same time, he didn't want to lose him for nothing. They let him go because they knew they weren't going to pay him $30+mil this season. If they tagged him again, WAS would've basically given him a 3yr deal amounting to $70mil in franchise tags.


I don't have an issue player movement. The NFL is a different sport and team composition is so different from the NBA that I don't even think they ought to be compared in terms of contract and free agency status. The NBA's problem isn't with RFA status or needing some type of franchise tag, which the NBPA would never agree to.

The issue with the player's lack of desire to compete. It was basically an unwritten rule that you don't ring chase until you've given it your best effort in your prime on YOUR team. Everyone assumed that stars would have enough pride, cockiness, and intestinal fortitude to stick through whatever happened on your team until your prime was over.

I don't think you can legislate or dictate this in the laws of a CBA, since players wouldn't accept it. Fans need to change the rhetoric and get back to talk about competition instead of just rings.

[NyCeEvO]

there are 2 major issues:

1) stars leaving the teams that drafted them
2) not enough talent for 30 teams

the NBA needs a franchise Tag like the NFL. To help prevent stars from leaving teams that drafted them.

i dont think we will see contraction, but so many bad teams at a time when talent is down doesnt help

The NBA's franchise tag is Restricted Free Agency and it lasts longer than the NFL's tag. RFA gives you 4-5 more years.

I think the problem is a two-sided coin. The media and fans mainly talk about rings being the most important thing for a basketball career; the players who grow up in a culture that they are only worth something if they win eventually feel like they should do whatever they can to get rings.

The discourse really needs to be about competition and having a desire to beat others. No one considers Robert Horry better than MJ despite Horry having more rings. MJ's lore is so great because when he faced the competition at the highest level, he displayed an insatiable desire to win the title AND beat you down while doing it. The people who simply parrot "6 ringzzz" in every argument miss MJ's greatest asset: a fiery competitiveness.

I also think that's why a lot of fans respect Kobe more than LBJ. Despite coming close to leaving the Lakers, he ultimately stayed with them throughout his entire career when his teammates were terrible and when they were great.

Yeah, this is why you have Kevin Durant having no qualms about joining a team that beat him the year prior. The emphasis is not on competition, but ring accumulation.

It'll be interesting to see how this generation is viewed in the future. The old belief was that no one will remember the circumstances by which you win, they'll just remember the fact you won. But with the internet, people don't really forget as many details as they used to.

Kobe has 5 rings, but everybody adult and kid knows he wasn't the alpha for the first three.

Once LBJ retires and the narrative of his career is complete, I have a feeling that his decision to join MIA will come back as a bigger negative on his career than we are remembering at the this time (because we're prisoners of the moment).

History will not forget KD's decision to join the Warriors. I think his career will actually serve as an example to future stars of what you don't want to do if you want to be truly appreciated by fans.

While to us this era of non-competitiveness seems like it will remain forever but I think the league and the players will correct themselves and competitiveness will come back. It wouldn't surprise me if 10-20 years from now, fans look back on the MIA-GSW era as an era of weak competition and one for which championships weren't as valuable for the stars of the team as they used to be in the 80s and 90s and as they will be again in the 2020s and beyond.

[Paradise]

I don't. I kind of wish that the NBA had a hard cap and some actual parity. Golden State has 3 of the league's top 25 players on their team. I'd rather see a league where most teams have one A tier player on their team and the rest of the players are B/C/D tier, not watching a finals featuring an A tier player carrying a team full of C-D tier players into a finals match up versus a team with three A tier guys and a B tier PF that likes to kick dudes penises. Last night was so boring.

Hard to say that when this league historically is based around three franchises that had dominated basketball in a similar stretch. 80’s Celtics (8 straight finals runs), Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Jordan’s Bulls, etc. It’s literally the same thing.

I'm thinking in terms of modern day NBA, if teams were allowed say 1 slot that they can pay A Tier talent a supermax that is outside of the regular cap and the rest of the roster has to fit under a hard cap, that would prevent situations where you've got a considerable amount of talent on one team and for something like what happened with Kevin Durant, if a player of his caliber wanted to join a team that is already stacked, he'd have to take a considerable pay cut.

teams would have to make tough decisions, but it would allow for more teams to have access to quality talent. obviously the players will balk at this.

If GMs can’t make smarter decisions with a soft cap. The Players will easily argue it won’t get better and it will lead to more unhappy stars. The Cavs probably make the same roster mistakes under a hard cap or with a Tag for example.

[Born_Ready]

I just wonder if LBJ has found some property in Houston yet.

I don't see how that works at all. three ball dominant players at 1, 2, and 3? Plus having to play in the West?

I don't think James is a good fit for Philly either, tbh. What is Ben Simmons going to do, stand over in the corner and wait for a pass when he can't shoot?

You're probably right. However, I had that same thought when OKC brought in Paul and Melo. While the season wasn't a success for the Thunder, they all found opportunities to get their shots off. Although that team failed, I still think they found ways to move the ball around somehow. All 3 of the aforementioned are ball dominant players. That's why I thought Houston for Lebron.

If Lebron went to Houston the only team they would have to beat is the Warriors. Houston took Golden State 7 games without Lebron. If I'm the KING I am thinking long and hard about moving to Houston because once I knock of the Warriors, I'm guaranteed to beat an Eastern team. Unless it's Brooklyn of course.

[steady]

because most guys dont go around repeatedly punching guys in the dick. its not liek this was just the 2nd or 3rd time and im sure he got plenty and plenty of warnings and had tons of technicals in the playoffs.

if you are at the point were you have been T'd up and warned a ton cant blame the league for "bad timing" draymond shouldnt have put his team before himself and made sure to stay out of trouble. he didnt.

and they had him for game 7 at home. and they choked. didnt score the last 4+ minutes

We know that referees are much less likely to call fouls in the last few minutes of close games — even when there are fouls to be called - because they don’t want officiating to be a deciding factor in games . In this case, it wasn’t a player being pulled from a game for the last few minutes of a close game. It was pulling a player - the best player -for an entire game. And it was a flagrant foul called in a play where a foul was not even called in real time, and on which the contact was not even clear on replays if I remember right

It was a ridiculous way to decide a championship series . Curry was injured and had enough to get through a short series and not enough to finish s seven game series - so yes imo benching Green was decisive action in that series. To me it is irrelevant what happened in games six and seven in justifying the Leagues action.

You cannot make exceptions to the rule because its the championship series. Draymond Green is a habitual offender and verbally abuses the refs every game. Had Draymond had some self control, he wouldn't have been in that position to get suspended to begin with. He brought that on itself, the NBA was just enforcing the rules.

i know what you're saying , but I disagree. I do not want Championships decided based on officiating. If it had been a flagrant foul where someone was seriously injured or could have potentially been seriously injured, I would at least partially understand. But a suspension to teach Draymond Green a lesson .. during a Championship series (for a foul that wasn’t even called in real time because the contact was so negligible and was only categorized as flagrant days after the game was over). To me, that was the wrong call by the League.

[MrDollarBills]

We know that referees are much less likely to call fouls in the last few minutes of close games — even when there are fouls to be called - because they don’t want officiating to be a deciding factor in games . In this case, it wasn’t a player being pulled from a game for the last few minutes of a close game. It was pulling a player - the best player -for an entire game. And it was a flagrant foul called in a play where a foul was not even called in real time, and on which the contact was not even clear on replays if I remember right

It was a ridiculous way to decide a championship series . Curry was injured and had enough to get through a short series and not enough to finish s seven game series - so yes imo benching Green was decisive action in that series. To me it is irrelevant what happened in games six and seven in justifying the Leagues action.

You cannot make exceptions to the rule because its the championship series. Draymond Green is a habitual offender and verbally abuses the refs every game. Had Draymond had some self control, he wouldn't have been in that position to get suspended to begin with. He brought that on itself, the NBA was just enforcing the rules.

i know what you're saying , but I disagree. I do not want Championships decided based on officiating. If it had been a flagrant foul where someone was seriously injured or could have potentially been seriously injured, I would at least partially understand. But a suspension to teach Draymond Green a lesson .. during a Championship series (for a foul that wasn’t even called in real time because the contact was so negligible and was only categorized as flagrant days after the game was over). To me, that was the wrong call by the League.

teaching him a lesson? the dude was out there kicking dudes in their dicks FFS come on fam. **** a championship series. the rules are the rules.

so you're advocating that, because its the finals, it should be no holds barred?

so lets say if Draymond Green for some reason clotheslines Lebron James tomorrow night on a bang bang play. i mean straight up gives him a LARIAT-O!! like Kevin McHale did to Kurt Rambis in the 1984 finals, you would be perfectly fine with the league letting Green play the next game? to avoid teaching draymond "a lesson"????

i disagree with you 100%. the rules that are in place come first tip off in oct/nov should be the same rules in place come june. if you act like a **** boy, you need to take a seat. this isn't a case about officiating deciding finals. its a case of a habitual offender reaping what he has sowed.

[MrDollarBills]

I just wonder if LBJ has found some property in Houston yet.

I don't see how that works at all. three ball dominant players at 1, 2, and 3? Plus having to play in the West?

I don't think James is a good fit for Philly either, tbh. What is Ben Simmons going to do, stand over in the corner and wait for a pass when he can't shoot?

You're probably right. However, I had that same thought when OKC brought in Paul and Melo. While the season wasn't a success for the Thunder, they all found opportunities to get their shots off. Although that team failed, I still think they found ways to move the ball around somehow. All 3 of the aforementioned are ball dominant players. That's why I thought Houston for Lebron.

If Lebron went to Houston the only team they would have to beat is the Warriors. Houston took Golden State 7 games without Lebron. If I'm the KING I am thinking long and hard about moving to Houston because once I knock of the Warriors, I'm guaranteed to beat an Eastern team. Unless it's Brooklyn of course.

Lebron is the best player of the 2010s. i just don't fathom him playing on a team with two ball dominant guards.